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Sex without Consent.
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Okay, well I barely ever post asking for advice so I feel a bit strange posting this but I guess it might help!
A couple of weeks ago two of my friends had sex. They're not in a relationship, male and female, aren't all that close otherwise and it just happened. The female friend was a virgin before then, the male wasn't and it wasn't exactly romantic for her, but she's always claimed that she didn't see it as something all that special anyway. But since then she's been a bit funny about it, at first I figured it was just all a bit raw, and that she felt a bit stupid for how it all panned out. However, after two weeks and me knowing something wasn't right, she told me today that she didn't consent to it, and didn't actually know it was happening until it was essentially over.
Now, I don't really know how to support her and also how I feel about it all. I've told her she should speak to someone professional about it if its really bothering her but she's insistant that its not that big of a deal and she is a very stubborn person so I don't want to push her.
I'm also annoyed at my male friend because, about two years ago, he nearly did the same thing to me (when we were closer to being in a relationship than a friendship). I, thankfully was sober and was able to tell him I didn't want to and get him to stop. He was also very apologetic after he realised what he'd nearly done, (especially after it had happened to me previously with someone else which he knew about) but I don't believe he could've thought she was in any state that was capable of consenting. She was very drunk, as was he but if he was sober enough to have sex with her surely he'd be able to tell she wasn't in any fit state to decide to? I'm really torn over it all, because I don't want to believe the worst of him, but I am also really annoyed with him over the whole situation.
So really, if anyone has any advice on how to deal with it all it'd be much appreciated. I mean I've kind of been through what she has but my way of dealing was very different, and I didn't have the problem of not really remembering much. We're also quite different people, she trusts people easily while I trust very few, so she feels betrayed whereas I didn't really. And as for him, I don't know what to do because I really want to confront him over it all, but I don't want to make matters worse for her..
I'm so sorry for such an awful post! I've not made this easy at all!
Oh, and we're 17/18 if that helps any.
Thank you!
A couple of weeks ago two of my friends had sex. They're not in a relationship, male and female, aren't all that close otherwise and it just happened. The female friend was a virgin before then, the male wasn't and it wasn't exactly romantic for her, but she's always claimed that she didn't see it as something all that special anyway. But since then she's been a bit funny about it, at first I figured it was just all a bit raw, and that she felt a bit stupid for how it all panned out. However, after two weeks and me knowing something wasn't right, she told me today that she didn't consent to it, and didn't actually know it was happening until it was essentially over.
Now, I don't really know how to support her and also how I feel about it all. I've told her she should speak to someone professional about it if its really bothering her but she's insistant that its not that big of a deal and she is a very stubborn person so I don't want to push her.
I'm also annoyed at my male friend because, about two years ago, he nearly did the same thing to me (when we were closer to being in a relationship than a friendship). I, thankfully was sober and was able to tell him I didn't want to and get him to stop. He was also very apologetic after he realised what he'd nearly done, (especially after it had happened to me previously with someone else which he knew about) but I don't believe he could've thought she was in any state that was capable of consenting. She was very drunk, as was he but if he was sober enough to have sex with her surely he'd be able to tell she wasn't in any fit state to decide to? I'm really torn over it all, because I don't want to believe the worst of him, but I am also really annoyed with him over the whole situation.
So really, if anyone has any advice on how to deal with it all it'd be much appreciated. I mean I've kind of been through what she has but my way of dealing was very different, and I didn't have the problem of not really remembering much. We're also quite different people, she trusts people easily while I trust very few, so she feels betrayed whereas I didn't really. And as for him, I don't know what to do because I really want to confront him over it all, but I don't want to make matters worse for her..
I'm so sorry for such an awful post! I've not made this easy at all!
Oh, and we're 17/18 if that helps any.
Thank you!
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Comments
Now I am NOT by any means suggesting she is lying, its just that sometimes when a girl regrets something like that its because she realises she never really wanted it even though she might not have neccessarily been clear about it at the time. They then end up convincing themselves that they stated so at the time.
Thats why it can be a very grey area when drink is involve, sometimes the girl might think to herself she doesnt want it but doesnt actually say it out loud but is sure she did.
However, that might not be the case in this situation, that was just a suggestion. If your friend clearly said no at the time then the guy should've stopped. End of. No means no however much alcohol is involved.
At the end of the day it really is upto your friend how she wants to deal with this. Has she thought about contacting the police?
I'm probably not going to be very popular in saying so, but being so blind drunk that you haven't a clue what's going on is not a good idea, either for guys or girls, as it's asking for trouble. In an ideal world, the guy would politely say "I am not insensitive to the honour you do me in offering yourself for sexual congress, but I realise that you may not be aware of the consequences, and I shall therefore desist", but we all know it ain't going to happen. And we don't know if this girl said no, or if she just went along with it unwillingly, or indeed if she only decided she was unwilling after sex occurred, or after she'd sobered up.
Much too complicated. Don't get involved. Offer support, that's it.
Thanks for the replys
As for worrying about people knowing, only a very small handful do know it happened, and nobody would really think that much of it anyway (I know that sounds terrible!
I don't know if she said no or not, which is a problem but she has told me she didn't want to. I know that if she didn't it isn't his fault, but I am a bit annoyed at him because I feel like he should've know better than to do it the way she was. I saw how drunk she was, she could barely stand. I also hoped better of him because he is one of the few people who knows the truth about what happened with me and how it really made me, not how I pretended I was so I sort of hoped better of him. But that might not be fair of me.
Also, about going to the police I don't think she has any intention of, and I won't try to force her. He is her friend too, they weren't as close but she'd consider him a friend so she doesn't want to do him any harm I don't think.
Thanks for the advice, and as for the bib I totally agree! I don't drink so I see the damage it does to everyone. I do also think that, chances are, she didn't really realise she didn't want to until after it happened. She said herself she didn't realise it was happening until he was basically done so.
You sound like a good friend, so I reckon part of your support should be trying to make her see that it's HER responsibility not to get rat-arsed. Not just because of the danger of rape, but she could stagger out into the street and get run over, fall onto a railway line, get mugged, die of alcohol poisoning, any number of things, not to mention her reputation (if her virginity was important to her). Ratted and vomit-stained isn't a great look. And as I said, I know it's not right, no means no, etc., etc., but if the bloke's just as ratted as the girl, the result is pretty much inevitable, as he's more or less brain-dead apart from his gonads!
I think the law changed a year or so ago ... if the girl was so drunk she didn't know what was happening, then she was incapable of giving consent, so it was rape. Though it does matter in the non-legal sense, to give us an idea what sort of person the male was.
I hate to say it, but it's probably too late to report it to the Police ... I doubt whether the CPS would prosecute without corroborating evidence.
It may actually be for the best that she can barely remember it ...hopefully the small memory she has of it will fade soon.
Hopefully she has learned her lesson about drink and sex and he will learn that as a male, drinking and having sex with a girl can lead to very serious consequences for him. She can get drunk and bonk off as many guys as she likes......but won't ever face accusation of rape. He will.
Even a husband can be charged with raping his wife if, during consensual sex, his wife decides part way through.....nope, don't want any more, stop what you're doing I want to watch Eastenders instead. :rolleyes:
And how many cases have we had similar to the OP's where a young mans life has been totally ruined by allegation of rape? Media publicity for the male......total anonymity for the female. That's not Justice......that's a disgrace.
I don't think it would be wise to confront him especially as she told u in confidence so wouldn't expect you to do that. Sounds like he at least took advantage of her but in those situations it's hard to say if it was rape I guess
Well technically women/men should have the rights to their own body if they no longer want to do something, casually stopping to watch eastenders is just a trivial example lol. If for example a husband and wife are having sex and then the husband becomes too rough, saying insulting things or starts doing things she doesnt want I'd still say that's valid as rape.Whether it would warrant pressing charges would depend on the individual.
If it is found, (and this has happened more than enough times), that the female making the allegation has lied, then she must be publicly named.
If he continues when she has already said "no", then it's rape as it's no longer consensual.
If your friend genuinely isn't that bothered you're best option is to keep out of it.
However I disagree that you shouldn't get involved within your friendship group. As this is a little disagreement between friends and both parties are equally to blame.
From what you have described this guy is a predator. Are you sure you are the only two women he has tried this on?
Perhaps he knows what he did was wrong. Perhaps he doesn't. But he needs to be confronted in a calm way and told that his behaviour is unacceptable. This should be done in a public and an embarrassing place as possible for him. Guys like this deserve shame. Hopefully this will prevent this happening to another of your group of friend and they will forewarned when arround him.
After this you should also no longer be friends with him. He isn't a good person and a creep.
So you think it is OK for a husband to rape his wife. Because that is what you are saying because if she no longer gives consent and you carry on, that is what you are doing.
It is no longer 1659 and when a woman gets married a her husband owns her to do what he wants.
Imagine your wife makes you are huge meal and half way through you say "I've had enough, darling" (I dunno, maybe you want to watch Corronation Street) but she then picks up a spoon and forces the rest of the meal down your throat.
You say no and push her away but she is much stronger than you (otherwise how could she force the food in your mouth) . Wouldnt you feel a little violated?
Media publicity is exactly the same for any adult crime......in rape it is just the victim who is dealt with differently and that is based on research into the apaulingly low conviction rate. If she is later prosecuted for a false allegation she is named.
Not all the blame can be placed on the man (boy I won't be popular saying that) a woman has to take responsibility for herself and her own actions in situations like this.
he was extremely drunk too according to the op, i dont think its totally fair to blame him, this is a lesson that younger people need to get into their heads where they dont drink to such extremes where these could be the ramifications.
It's possible to persuade his elderly neighbour to spend all her savings on a timeshare she can't use but it wouldnt be a moral thing to do. Similarly he shouldn't take advantage of a drunken girl. It wouldn't be a very respectable or gentlemanly thing do to
Yes some young women need educating too. That it OK to be confident and say No. Even if he bought you a drink and you invited him back to your place and you are started in foreplay you don't have any obligation if you don't want to and can tell him to leave.
She's said it wasn't a big deal, so all you can do is hope that this is true and it's not a big deal for her. And just be there for her, should she want to talk about it or report it or anything.
She's lucky to have a friend that cares - and after the event I think that's all you can do really.
What if he was really drunk as well?
It's a difficult area because whats to stop a woman iniating sex with a man and then deciding afterwards that she didn't really want it. If a man and a woman both get drunk and both have sex the blame can not land just with the man because he was ungentlemanly to have sex with a drunk woman (just because a woman is drunk doesn't mean she shouldn't take responsibility for herself) . If he is drunk as well then how is he to know that she is in no fit state and surely both should realise they are in no fit state. And if the woman is so drunk then maybe she needs to re-evaluate how she lives her life.
You hear many cases of a woman having sex then deciding afterwards that she didn't want it or she was too drunk and then crying rape. She gets annonyminity his life is ruined. My point is before people throw rape around they need to be sure of the facts.