I actually meant that Islam will sort itself out 300 years after my death....
Very comforting. .
As I said earlier, I'm sure the victims of the Inquisition felt the same way as Christianity didn't sort itself out until hundreds of years after their death.
Wonkeydonkey, thanks for putting Jefferson straight about Anders Breivik.
As I said earlier, I'm sure the victims of the Inquisition felt the same way as Christianity didn't sort itself out until hundreds of years after their death.[/QUOTE]
The new four-part series on Yesterday about the Inquisition is superb (part three was on Wednesday).
It took some real thought and a sadistic and twisted mind to invent some of the hideous tortures that the poor 'heretics' had to endure.
A religious belief can give people courage and strength to do very difficult things; obviously these can be good or bad.
I can't even be bothered with a post that suggests that people are not 'sane' if they have a religious belief.
What a depressing thread - hardly a glimmer of intelligence from start to finish, just the kind of mindless, ignorant, two dimensional religion-bashing you might get from a hormonal 14 year old.
Hands up anyone who thinks that the murderous violence in Northern Ireland was about the exact status of the blessed bread and wine during communion/ mass?
Hands up anyone who thinks that the murderous violence in Iran/ Iraq is about the exact status of Mohammed's son in law?
Who thinks that some Catholic priests abused children because of their profound belief in God, rather than that a celibate priesthood might be particularly attractive to people whose sexuality is somewhat disturbed?
Who thinks that Anders Breivik killed 69 teenagers because, after much prayer and contemplation, he believed that he had received a revelation from Jesus?
Who believes that Boko Haram flourish in the poor, backward, oil-free North of Nigeria because their supporters believe that people are rather overdoing the reverence for the prophet Jesus in the wealthy, powerful South?
Extremist religious and atheist beliefs are fuelled by anger, resentment, envy and the desire for power and control; the motivations behind extremist and oppressive religion are exactly the same as the motivations behind the oppressive suppression of religion.
Wow! Perhaps God does exist and it is you.
Every single day I see secular humanists blowing themselves up in the name of atheism.
Christianity in this country may be all sweet and cuddly now - but try telling that to all those tortured and murdered here only a few hundred years ago.
Every single day I see secular humanists blowing themselves up in the name of atheism.
Christianity in this country may be all sweet and cuddly now - but try telling that to all those tortured and murdered here only a few hundred years ago.
So who are all those that every day advocate killing as the `Will of Allah` and promise to be rewarded in doing so
>:(
Hindu extremist organisations have been accused of involvement in terrorist attacks like 2006 Malegaon blasts, Mecca Masjid bombing (Hyderabad), Samjhauta Express bombings and the Ajmer sharif dargah blast.
Every single day I see secular humanists blowing themselves up in the name of atheism.
Yep. Every single day I see the religious blowing themselves up in the name of Christianity. Interdenominational body count in the church is just appalling.
Christianity in this country may be all sweet and cuddly now - but try telling that to all those tortured and murdered here only a few hundred years ago.
Well yes... obviously.. because a) we can't go back in time and b) because they'd be very hard to find.
Because some people take religion too literally and want to kill anyone who disagrees with their interpretation. Of course the Islam nuts are more prominent now, and they just so happen to be the weirdos of this generation, i.e. Why isn't everything MY way, everyone should be like ME, wah wah, wah.
| think you can get die hard fans on most things, from sports of various kinds, to fans of celebrities, book writers and religion and loads of other things, OP didn't that occur to you?
A religious belief can give people courage and strength to do very difficult things; obviously these can be good or bad.
I can't even be bothered with a post that suggests that people are not 'sane' if they have a religious belief.
What a depressing thread - hardly a glimmer of intelligence from start to finish, just the kind of mindless, ignorant, two dimensional religion-bashing you might get from a hormonal 14 year old.
Hands up anyone who thinks that the murderous violence in Northern Ireland was about the exact status of the blessed bread and wine during communion/ mass?
Hands up anyone who thinks that the murderous violence in Iran/ Iraq is about the exact status of Mohammed's son in law?
Who thinks that some Catholic priests abused children because of their profound belief in God, rather than that a celibate priesthood might be particularly attractive to people whose sexuality is somewhat disturbed?
Who thinks that Anders Breivik killed 69 teenagers because, after much prayer and contemplation, he believed that he had received a revelation from Jesus?
Who believes that Boko Haram flourish in the poor, backward, oil-free North of Nigeria because their supporters believe that people are rather overdoing the reverence for the prophet Jesus in the wealthy, powerful South?
Extremist religious and atheist beliefs are fuelled by anger, resentment, envy and the desire for power and control; the motivations behind extremist and oppressive religion are exactly the same as the motivations behind the oppressive suppression of religion.
I was instrumental in establishing the Israeli National Skin Bank, which is the largest in the world. The National Skin Bank stores skin for every day needs as well as for war time or mass casualty situations.
This skin bank is hosted at the Hadassah Ein Kerem University hospital in Jerusalem where I was the Chairman of plastic surgery. This is how I was asked to supply skin for an Arab woman from Gaza, who was hospitalized in Soroka Hospital in Beersheva, after her family burned her. Usually, such atrocities happen among Arab families when the women are suspected of having an affair.
We supplied all the needed Homografts for her treatment. She was successfully treated by my friend and colleague, Prof. Lior Rosenberg and discharged to return to Gaza. She was invited for regular follow-up visits to the outpatient clinic in Beersheva.
One day she was caught at a border crossing wearing a suicide belt. She meant to explode herself in the outpatient clinic of the hospital where they saved her life. It seems that her family promised her that if she did that, they would forgive her.
This is only one example of the war between Jews and Muslims in the Land of Israel. It is not a territorial conflict. This is a civilizational conflict, or rather a war between civilization & barbarism.
Bibi (Netanyahu) gets it, Obama does not.
I have never written before asking to please forward onwards, so that as many as possible can understand radical Islam and what awaits the world if it is not stopped.
Though there have been problems in Ireland with Christianity and the IRA etc.
But the photos of all those poor men and boys this month being lined up on the ground and executed for apparently not being 'Islamic' enough, is just heartbreaking.
A complete waste of life for nothing! For a book, and a culture based on what surely must be a work of complete fiction as the probablitiy of the basis of anything in these religions being remotely factual must be close to 0% .
The brainwashing of the people on this planet is truley sickening, and look where it has got us.
But what about these religions makes some people simply 'believe in them' yet some people turn into raging murdering lunatics.
Because they hate themselves and are tired of living.
Wow! I can't believe how little so many of you posting on here know so little about Christianity. I don't uphold any religion, but I have respect for those who do. Christinaity, Islam and all other religions that I've heard of advise love and ,especially, compassion for those less better off than you. Is this a bad thing? How so?
I would imagine that any normal thinking human can manage and embrace love and compassion without the need for church leaders of any denomination to warn them of what will happen to them if they don't.
A very sad state of affairs to suggest that people need this control and direction.
Some people are predisposed to sadism or violence and get their kicks from that.
Some people are predisposed to being manipulative and dishonesty, being a leader, and get caught up in the ego-feeding side of that.
Some people are predisposed to being followers and like to be told what to think and are happiest when they have a complete narrative, whether invented or not.
Some people are predisposed to being taken in by an extreme belief that to others would seem nonsense (eg. heaven's gate).
I'd say mostly that these people can be found amongst any religious or atheist person and that their actual belief is secondary to why and how they believe whatever it is they believe (or don't) but I'm not really qualified to judge so I'll let you make your own mind up on that. I personally think that someone who gets their kicks out of sadism (eg) will commit the same evil act whether they are brought up one way or another. People can twist their belief to excuse anything if they are cunning enough (and usually do). I guess I'm saying that I think that psychologically we are deeper than whatever belief we profess and it's this that determines our behaviour (when we have freedom).
Every single day I see secular humanists blowing themselves up in the name of atheism.
'Secular humanist' is not a synonym for atheist. It is not secular humanists who are persecuting Buddhists in Tibet, is it? Who have had people executed for possessing an empty picture frame, on the grounds that it might be held to symbolise the Dalai Lama? It is not secular humanists who starve and torture swathes of the population of North Korea, where Christians have been persecuted almost to extinction, is it?
Secular humanists are almost invariably first world people, comfortably off and stable. Extremists - religious and atheist - appear in places where there is a power vacuum, and where power and influence are up for grabs.
Christianity in this country may be all sweet and cuddly now - but try telling that to all those tortured and murdered here only a few hundred years ago.
But you have no control group. There are no communities of atheists, during our long and bloody pre-twentieth century history, who can show whether they would have been different. History has been full of torture and murder, and the concept of universal human rights was a very recent arrival..
The inquisition was church based, Mary 1st burning people at the stake was inspired by religion. But for much of history, all hospitals were also religious foundations; Dr Barnardo was inspired by his religion to devote his life to stopping orphaned children from dying in the streets; Sunday schools offered literacy classes for the poorest people, at a time when this was considered dangerously subversive; the anti-slavery campaign was dominated by evangelical Christians; prison reform by devout Quakers; and so on. It really is not fair to give one side of the story and not the other. Even today, you can see devout Christians travelling from Europe and the US to help with the healthcare in Liberia and other ebola-hit countries. Nancy Writebol, one of those infected, said that she felt that "God called her" to go and help; Dr Kent Brantly, the other infected American was also working for a Christian mission. Are you or I in Liberia cleaning up protective suits, as Nancy was doing, or treating the patients, as Kent was doing? I would take SOME persuading.
I would imagine that any normal thinking human can manage and embrace love and compassion without the need for church leaders of any denomination to warn them of what will happen to them if they don't.
A very sad state of affairs to suggest that people need this control and direction.
How about 'some people'? And religious affiliation is not all about control and direction. Indeed, I would say that for most people with a religious attachment, that is a weak factor. It is more about companionship, comfort, a sense of community and exposure to words, music or buildings that they find beautiful. Church leaders surely don't do much 'warning'; whatever have you heard them say? But there is intrinsic harm in encouraging people, once a week, to take their thoughts off themselves and their own needs and wants, and to focus on others; easy to say you will or do, but more likely to happen imo in a communal, structured setting. Even the food banks are a tiny weekly discipline; it's so easy to feel vaguely sorry for people who hit destitution, but seeing those boxes once a week, really does focus you on making sure you have something to put in them.
'Secular humanist' is not a synonym for atheist. It is not secular humanists who are persecuting Buddhists in Tibet, is it? Who have had people executed for possessing an empty picture frame, on the grounds that it might be held to symbolise the Dalai Lama? It is not secular humanists who starve and torture swathes of the population of North Korea, where Christians have been persecuted almost to extinction, is it?
Secular humanists are almost invariably first world people, comfortably off and stable. Extremists - religious and atheist - appear in places where there is a power vacuum, and where power and influence are up for grabs.
But you have no control group. There are no communities of atheists, during our long and bloody pre-twentieth century history, who can show whether they would have been different. History has been full of torture and murder, and the concept of universal human rights was a very recent arrival..
The inquisition was church based, Mary 1st burning people at the stake was inspired by religion. But for much of history, all hospitals were also religious foundations; Dr Barnardo was inspired by his religion to devote his life to stopping orphaned children from dying in the streets; Sunday schools offered literacy classes for the poorest people, at a time when this was considered dangerously subversive; the anti-slavery campaign was dominated by evangelical Christians; prison reform by devout Quakers; and so on. It really is not fair to give one side of the story and not the other. Even today, you can see devout Christians travelling from Europe and the US to help with the healthcare in Liberia and other ebola-hit countries. Nancy Writebol, one of those infected, said that she felt that "God called her" to go and help; Dr Kent Brantly, the other infected American was also working for a Christian mission. Are you or I in Liberia cleaning up protective suits, as Nancy was doing, or treating the patients, as Kent was doing? I would take SOME persuading.
How about 'some people'? And religious affiliation is not all about control and direction. Indeed, I would say that for most people with a religious attachment, that is a weak factor. It is more about companionship, comfort, a sense of community and exposure to words, music or buildings that they find beautiful. Church leaders surely don't do much 'warning'; whatever have you heard them say? But there is intrinsic harm in encouraging people, once a week, to take their thoughts off themselves and their own needs and wants, and to focus on others; easy to say you will or do, but more likely to happen imo in a communal, structured setting. Even the food banks are a tiny weekly discipline; it's so easy to feel vaguely sorry for people who hit destitution, but seeing those boxes once a week, really does focus you on making sure you have something to put in them.
This. If people wish to discuss and cast stones and emphasize their simple thinki g, I wonder why Athiest Stalin killed so many in Russia?
That's not the way the the vast majority of this world's population see it.
In a world where you can be executed for saying you're an atheist (or a convert to a religion other than the one your parents had) you're never likely to get a really sensible answer to the question of whether someone truly believes in the religion they claim to follow.
I'd say the actions of many people suggest they either can't really comprehend what all-seeing actually means (for religions that have a deity with that magic power), or they aren't really believers at all. Perhaps they think their particular deity is more forgiving than the holy books tend to portray them?
Very often religious extremism is about the persecution of minorities because they are different, and this "threatens" the status quo.
Its not often about the minutiae of religious belief.
Comments
As I said earlier, I'm sure the victims of the Inquisition felt the same way as Christianity didn't sort itself out until hundreds of years after their death.
Wow! Perhaps God does exist and it is you.
Every single day I see secular humanists blowing themselves up in the name of atheism.
Christianity in this country may be all sweet and cuddly now - but try telling that to all those tortured and murdered here only a few hundred years ago.
Exactly what I would say. A lot of the time in political issues, religion is just an excuse. "It's not me, it's what my God told me to do."
>:(
What about Hindu extremists:
Saffron terror
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saffron_terror
And then we have Buddhist extremists:
U.N.: Dozens of Muslims massacred by Buddhists in Burma
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/un-dozens-of-rohingya-muslims-massacred-by-buddhists-in-rakhine-burma/
And also Jewish extremists:
Israel's New Generation of Racists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPzYExjz6Io
Yep. Every single day I see the religious blowing themselves up in the name of Christianity. Interdenominational body count in the church is just appalling.
Well yes... obviously.. because a) we can't go back in time and b) because they'd be very hard to find.
That would be the Islamic fanatics - who have not progressed since the 7th century.
I accept that you don't believe God to be real.
ALL deities are silly inventions.
Imaginary inventions created mostly by religions and used as a tool to control their flock.
That's not the way the the vast majority of this world's population see it.
It seems that total and utter despair that the situation can ever be resolved is sadly inevitable.
Surely all that means, is that it's just as easy to brainwash many as merely a few?
Because they hate themselves and are tired of living.
Doesn't matter if the entire world's population disagrees, it does not make them right.
It just shows how effective this tool is for religions to control their flock.
I would imagine that any normal thinking human can manage and embrace love and compassion without the need for church leaders of any denomination to warn them of what will happen to them if they don't.
A very sad state of affairs to suggest that people need this control and direction.
Some people are predisposed to being manipulative and dishonesty, being a leader, and get caught up in the ego-feeding side of that.
Some people are predisposed to being followers and like to be told what to think and are happiest when they have a complete narrative, whether invented or not.
Some people are predisposed to being taken in by an extreme belief that to others would seem nonsense (eg. heaven's gate).
I'd say mostly that these people can be found amongst any religious or atheist person and that their actual belief is secondary to why and how they believe whatever it is they believe (or don't) but I'm not really qualified to judge so I'll let you make your own mind up on that. I personally think that someone who gets their kicks out of sadism (eg) will commit the same evil act whether they are brought up one way or another. People can twist their belief to excuse anything if they are cunning enough (and usually do). I guess I'm saying that I think that psychologically we are deeper than whatever belief we profess and it's this that determines our behaviour (when we have freedom).
'Secular humanist' is not a synonym for atheist. It is not secular humanists who are persecuting Buddhists in Tibet, is it? Who have had people executed for possessing an empty picture frame, on the grounds that it might be held to symbolise the Dalai Lama? It is not secular humanists who starve and torture swathes of the population of North Korea, where Christians have been persecuted almost to extinction, is it?
Secular humanists are almost invariably first world people, comfortably off and stable. Extremists - religious and atheist - appear in places where there is a power vacuum, and where power and influence are up for grabs.
But you have no control group. There are no communities of atheists, during our long and bloody pre-twentieth century history, who can show whether they would have been different. History has been full of torture and murder, and the concept of universal human rights was a very recent arrival..
The inquisition was church based, Mary 1st burning people at the stake was inspired by religion. But for much of history, all hospitals were also religious foundations; Dr Barnardo was inspired by his religion to devote his life to stopping orphaned children from dying in the streets; Sunday schools offered literacy classes for the poorest people, at a time when this was considered dangerously subversive; the anti-slavery campaign was dominated by evangelical Christians; prison reform by devout Quakers; and so on. It really is not fair to give one side of the story and not the other. Even today, you can see devout Christians travelling from Europe and the US to help with the healthcare in Liberia and other ebola-hit countries. Nancy Writebol, one of those infected, said that she felt that "God called her" to go and help; Dr Kent Brantly, the other infected American was also working for a Christian mission. Are you or I in Liberia cleaning up protective suits, as Nancy was doing, or treating the patients, as Kent was doing? I would take SOME persuading.
How about 'some people'? And religious affiliation is not all about control and direction. Indeed, I would say that for most people with a religious attachment, that is a weak factor. It is more about companionship, comfort, a sense of community and exposure to words, music or buildings that they find beautiful. Church leaders surely don't do much 'warning'; whatever have you heard them say? But there is intrinsic harm in encouraging people, once a week, to take their thoughts off themselves and their own needs and wants, and to focus on others; easy to say you will or do, but more likely to happen imo in a communal, structured setting. Even the food banks are a tiny weekly discipline; it's so easy to feel vaguely sorry for people who hit destitution, but seeing those boxes once a week, really does focus you on making sure you have something to put in them.
This. If people wish to discuss and cast stones and emphasize their simple thinki g, I wonder why Athiest Stalin killed so many in Russia?
People are shitty. End of.
In a world where you can be executed for saying you're an atheist (or a convert to a religion other than the one your parents had) you're never likely to get a really sensible answer to the question of whether someone truly believes in the religion they claim to follow.
I'd say the actions of many people suggest they either can't really comprehend what all-seeing actually means (for religions that have a deity with that magic power), or they aren't really believers at all. Perhaps they think their particular deity is more forgiving than the holy books tend to portray them?
What ARE you talking about?The so called Republic has NO official ties with any Church, unlike your own fair isle.
Its not often about the minutiae of religious belief.