Would a majority Tory Government have increased its budget? No.
If you say so - they actually fought an election last year saying they would though
Would a Labour Government have done so? No.
Well thats up to Labour
Its the pure madness. As long as you maintain foreign aid at that level you leave yourself wide open to accusation that domestic cuts are are ideological and not actually based on necessity.
Surely it is simply a matter of priorities? - yes we have problems with the level of Public Spending in the UK but we also have a duty to help those less fortunate. I know that the concept of 'duty' is a bit old fashioned but you get the gist.
Invest in nice new clean technologies such as carbon capture, unfortunately the bloody government has just cancelled the main plan for a cc power station meaning it'll probably be years before we get one built
But CC doesn't actually work yet at an affordable price does it?
And it certainly wasn't an option in the 80's.
So we come back to the environmental problems of burning coal - and the fact remains that if you want a return to mass coal fired power generation you have to ignore the effects on the environment.
It's going to cost us no matter which alternative source of energy we choose.
Trying to penny pinch and throw a tiny amount at all of them, means none develop fast enough and international competitors get the march on us and produce it more cheaply than we can.
There was a working wind power turbine in the 19th century in Scotland and yet the bulk of the equipment we currently use has to be imported.
We quite simply don't have the industry left to produce things here. Pandering to tourists and shuffling money around are no substitute for what we lost during the Thatcher era.
Thankfully we seem to be putting more effort into designing tidal machines.
But CC doesn't actually work yet at an affordable price does it?
And it certainly wasn't an option in the 80's.
So we come back to the environmental problems of burning coal - and the fact remains that if you want a return to mass coal fired power generation you have to ignore the effects on the environment.
NO it doesn't work yet at an affordable level and it never will unless we get the ball rolling now, but if we put our focus and resources into it and mass build the things yes it will be affordable
And no it wasn't an option in the 80s but It's such a bloody obvious idea that I'd be shocked if scientists hadn't at least had theoretical ideas about it and if we'd invested in it then using all our lovely oil money (instead of funding huge dole queues) we'd be a world leader by now
It's going to cost us no matter which alternative source of energy we choose.
Trying to penny pinch and throw a tiny amount at all of them, means none develop fast enough and international competitors get the march on us and produce it more cheaply than we can.
There was a working wind power turbine in the 19th century in Scotland and yet the bulk of the equipment we currently use has to be imported.
We quite simply don't have the industry left to produce things here. Pandering to tourists and shuffling money around are no substitute for what we lost during the Thatcher era.
Thankfully we seem to be putting more effort into designing tidal machines.
Oh and talking about tidal, why won't the bloody government (both this one and the last) just build a tidal barrage on the severn, yes huge initial cost but it alone could generate 5% of all our electrical needs
Minor point but people were saying 20 years ago that oil would run out in 50 years.
Were they? I keep seeing people make this claim, often with different start and end dates, but they never seem to give any references.
As far as I know, nobody ever claimed that oil would just run out, because as you rightly say:
Current oil reserves may indeed run out but as a resource gets more scarce, then so does the cost it attracts. This in turn makes reserves that are currently seen as uneconomic viable.
On the other hand, what M King Hubbert noted, way back in 1956, was that oil production at any given location always followed a bell curve, and his projection was that global production would hit a peak sometime around the year 2000. That may not be far off the mark, and some people claim we've already passed peak oil. The curve has a long tail.
If you say so - they actually fought an election last year saying they would though
Well thats up to Labour
Surely it is simply a matter of priorities? - yes we have problems with the level of Public Spending in the UK but we also have a duty to help those less fortunate. I know that the concept of 'duty' is a bit old fashioned but you get the gist.
Yet in another thread you argue the poor should move out of London and stop whining. That you cannot see the pure hypocrisy of that is beyond me?
£8.4 billion a year could go a long way to sorting our national housing crisis rather than having arrogant Tories telling those less fortunate than them to "live in the real world".
Like I've said elsewhere glad I'm not a Tory, Glad I never will be.
At what point do you think oil production will have peaked, after which it's in terminal decline ?
depend what you mean by "terminal decline"
it implies that it will suddenly stop. it wont it will tail off
depending on future discoveries we will change to other sources as they develop and become more economic
since we dont know how much we had to start with how can you say its peaked?this is why the 44 years is cobblers
thats the nature of oil discovery
this is why the greens showed themselves up in the 70s by reading oil company statistics and as they normally only looked 10-20 years ahead they sid the oil would "run out" by the turn of the century. i remember the energy crisis of the 70s and were still using our cars
regardless of whether we have actual figures for the amount of oil left, the availability of oil is fuelling over consumption of pretty much everything else, surely it would be a better idea to try and curb it sooner rather than later, when the shit could truly hit the fan?
1970 - 60 units per annum of production
2005 - 100 units per annum of production
2010 - 120 units per annum of production
2011 - 121 units per annum of production
2012 - 121 units per annum of production - the peak
2013 - 120 units per annum of production
2018 - 110 units per annum of production
2020 - 90 units per annum of production
2025 - 60 units per annum of production
2040 - 30 units per annum of production
2050 - 5 units per annum of production
depend what you mean by "terminal decline"
it implies that it will suddenly stop. it wont it will tail off
depending on future discoveries we will change to other sources as they develop and become more economic
since we dont know how much we had to start with how can you say its peaked?this is why the 44 years is cobblers
thats the nature of oil discovery
this is why the greens showed themselves up in the 70s by reading oil company statistics and as they normally only looked 10-20 years ahead they sid the oil would "run out" by the turn of the century. i remember the energy crisis of the 70s and were still using our cars
Yes, we're still using our cars, but the price of petrol has shot up since then. The average price (according to the AA) was 34.25p per gallon in 1971; it's over £6 now.
Yes, we're still using our cars, but the price of petrol has shot up since then. The average price (according to the AA) was 34.25p per gallon in 1971; it's over £6 now.
Yes, but based on the increase in average earnings, that 1971 price was equivalent to £6.42 at 2009 prices...
Yes, but based on the increase in average earnings, that 1971 price was equivalent to £6.42 at 2009 prices...
The overall cost of buying and running a car must have come down in price in relation to earnings over the last 50 years. How else could you explain the rise in car use in the UK ?
1970 - 60 units per annum of production
2005 - 100 units per annum of production
2010 - 120 units per annum of production
2011 - 121 units per annum of production
2012 - 121 units per annum of production - the peak
2013 - 120 units per annum of production
2018 - 110 units per annum of production
2020 - 90 units per annum of production
2025 - 60 units per annum of production
2040 - 30 units per annum of production
2050 - 5 units per annum of production
source?
you do know they have caps and quotas?
this is my point projections are just that projections
no one knows what will be found or new techniques
theyve been saying this since the 70s
i'm not saying that all the "easy" oils been found and production may have peaked
and as oil is still affordable then the incentive to find a alternate is not s great
Yes, we're still using our cars, but the price of petrol has shot up since then. The average price (according to the AA) was 34.25p per gallon in 1971; it's over £6 now.
But thats to do with taxes not production or supply.
The overall cost of buying and running a car must have come down in price in relation to earnings over the last 50 years. How else could you explain the rise in car use in the UK ?
As for the reason why car use has increased, try using public transport for a few weeks and all will be revealed. It's a terrible service.
Also a definate social stigma has become attached to the using of buses to get to work.
As for the reason why car use has increased, try using public transport for a few weeks and all will be revealed. It's a terrible service.
Also a definate social stigma has become attached to the using of buses to get to work.
Buses are also surprisingly expensive.
(outside London at least)
Public transport only works if the Government behind it makes it work. The tax that Oil produces all along the chain is just too much to let go off. Easy money. Why improve Public Transport and decrease income from Oil?
It's not in the benefit of Governments, Corporations or the economy.
Public transport only works if the Government behind it makes it work. The tax that Oil produces all along the chain is just too much to let go off. Easy money. Why improve Public Transport and decrease income from Oil?
It's not in the benefit of Governments, Corporations or the economy.
Absolutely, and it also applies to "green" taxes and all the other tax-related stuff that is supposed to diminish usage.
Such taxes actually increase usage since no credible alternatives ever get championed by the government of the day.
Comments
If you say so - they actually fought an election last year saying they would though
Well thats up to Labour
Surely it is simply a matter of priorities? - yes we have problems with the level of Public Spending in the UK but we also have a duty to help those less fortunate. I know that the concept of 'duty' is a bit old fashioned but you get the gist.
But CC doesn't actually work yet at an affordable price does it?
And it certainly wasn't an option in the 80's.
So we come back to the environmental problems of burning coal - and the fact remains that if you want a return to mass coal fired power generation you have to ignore the effects on the environment.
Trying to penny pinch and throw a tiny amount at all of them, means none develop fast enough and international competitors get the march on us and produce it more cheaply than we can.
There was a working wind power turbine in the 19th century in Scotland and yet the bulk of the equipment we currently use has to be imported.
We quite simply don't have the industry left to produce things here. Pandering to tourists and shuffling money around are no substitute for what we lost during the Thatcher era.
Thankfully we seem to be putting more effort into designing tidal machines.
NO it doesn't work yet at an affordable level and it never will unless we get the ball rolling now, but if we put our focus and resources into it and mass build the things yes it will be affordable
And no it wasn't an option in the 80s but It's such a bloody obvious idea that I'd be shocked if scientists hadn't at least had theoretical ideas about it and if we'd invested in it then using all our lovely oil money (instead of funding huge dole queues) we'd be a world leader by now
Oh and talking about tidal, why won't the bloody government (both this one and the last) just build a tidal barrage on the severn, yes huge initial cost but it alone could generate 5% of all our electrical needs
Welcome to the world of peak phosphorus!
Well, yes. Provided you are prepared to wait a bit.
Were they? I keep seeing people make this claim, often with different start and end dates, but they never seem to give any references.
As far as I know, nobody ever claimed that oil would just run out, because as you rightly say:
On the other hand, what M King Hubbert noted, way back in 1956, was that oil production at any given location always followed a bell curve, and his projection was that global production would hit a peak sometime around the year 2000. That may not be far off the mark, and some people claim we've already passed peak oil. The curve has a long tail.
Yet in another thread you argue the poor should move out of London and stop whining. That you cannot see the pure hypocrisy of that is beyond me?
£8.4 billion a year could go a long way to sorting our national housing crisis rather than having arrogant Tories telling those less fortunate than them to "live in the real world".
Like I've said elsewhere glad I'm not a Tory, Glad I never will be.
when will they learn that the more you keep doom mongering the less people listen??
if you stopped using such pejorative words people would listen more!! eg disaster catastrophy irreversable
and the politicians screwed the tax payer with more green taxes so they get even more pi$$ed off
so eventually the core message is lost
now-- are the fossil fuels finite? of course
will it "run out" in 44 years? no of course not i'd say Oils got about 100yrs and coal and gas 200yrs
high prices will make difficult sources viable
do we need to transfer to a sustainable energy source? yes of course
we need to build new nuclear power stations starting today eg now to avoid a energy gap in 10 years time
we already import 5% of our power from 80% nuclear france
we also need to transfer from our petrol cars to small turbo diesel engined cars with advanced KERS systems going from a avg 30mpg to 200mpg
Eh? - suggesting that somebody move to cheaper area is hypocritical when compared to somebody who is starving to death? :eek:
Are you for real?
TBH with your views so am I
At what point do you think oil production will have peaked, after which it's in terminal decline ?
depend what you mean by "terminal decline"
it implies that it will suddenly stop. it wont it will tail off
depending on future discoveries we will change to other sources as they develop and become more economic
since we dont know how much we had to start with how can you say its peaked?this is why the 44 years is cobblers
thats the nature of oil discovery
this is why the greens showed themselves up in the 70s by reading oil company statistics and as they normally only looked 10-20 years ahead they sid the oil would "run out" by the turn of the century. i remember the energy crisis of the 70s and were still using our cars
Something like this
1970 - 60 units per annum of production
2005 - 100 units per annum of production
2010 - 120 units per annum of production
2011 - 121 units per annum of production
2012 - 121 units per annum of production - the peak
2013 - 120 units per annum of production
2018 - 110 units per annum of production
2020 - 90 units per annum of production
2025 - 60 units per annum of production
2040 - 30 units per annum of production
2050 - 5 units per annum of production
Yes, we're still using our cars, but the price of petrol has shot up since then. The average price (according to the AA) was 34.25p per gallon in 1971; it's over £6 now.
The overall cost of buying and running a car must have come down in price in relation to earnings over the last 50 years. How else could you explain the rise in car use in the UK ?
source?
you do know they have caps and quotas?
this is my point projections are just that projections
no one knows what will be found or new techniques
theyve been saying this since the 70s
i'm not saying that all the "easy" oils been found and production may have peaked
and as oil is still affordable then the incentive to find a alternate is not s great
No source.
It was merely an illustration of what might happen with oil peak production. I'm wondering when we will reach that peak ?
Agreed.
Agreed. It may have peaked.
I think it's closer to £4 in today money.
As for the reason why car use has increased, try using public transport for a few weeks and all will be revealed. It's a terrible service.
Also a definate social stigma has become attached to the using of buses to get to work.
Buses are also surprisingly expensive.
(outside London at least)
Public transport only works if the Government behind it makes it work. The tax that Oil produces all along the chain is just too much to let go off. Easy money. Why improve Public Transport and decrease income from Oil?
It's not in the benefit of Governments, Corporations or the economy.
Absolutely, and it also applies to "green" taxes and all the other tax-related stuff that is supposed to diminish usage.
Such taxes actually increase usage since no credible alternatives ever get championed by the government of the day.