2nd national DAB multiplex finally re advertised

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  • SouthCitySouthCity Posts: 12,465
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    kev wrote: »

    Appendix 3 of this document confirms the new local frequency plan. Suffolk will now use 10C and the plan to use 5A has been dropped.
  • Robert WilliamsRobert Williams Posts: 2,212
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    SouthCity wrote: »
    Appendix 3 of this document confirms the new local frequency plan. Suffolk will now use 10C and the plan to use 5A has been dropped.
    I see the plan now is to move Sussex from 11B to 10B, presumably leaving London 3 as it is, but on the list they do appear to have mixed up the frequency blocks for the three London muxes.
  • DigMorrisDigMorris Posts: 451
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    In coding standards - 3.57 on page 18 it reads:
    A maximum of 30% of the total capacity of the multiplex may be occupied by non-encrypted digital sound programme services conforming with the subset of theMPEG-4 High Efficiency Advanced Audio Coding v2 (HE AAC v2) Layer 2 profile described in ISO/IEC 14496-3 and TS 102 563. This is also known as DAB+.

    Ofcom: Advertisement of National Radio Multiplex Licence

    I wonder why Ofcom are so reluctant to let go of this prescriptive 30% share. Why would they not let the stations themselves decide whether to use DAB or DAB+? Is it because they fear the stations would all en masse opt for DAB+ and leave listeners with older radios in the cold? That would hardly be a commercially sensible decision for most stations so not very likely.
  • InterestedPartyInterestedParty Posts: 276
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    Agreed - DAB+ will only be viable when enough people have suitable radios, and broadcasters won't use it (much) until they are sure they'll get enough listeners to make it commercially viable. Setting an arbitrary limit really seems to be pointless. Am I missing something?
  • LaurelandHardyLaurelandHardy Posts: 3,806
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    It says in the report that there will be capacity for around ten stereo radio stations.
    Let's hope this is the case, and we wont end up with about thirty mono stations sounding like old tin boxes.
  • tghe-retfordtghe-retford Posts: 26,449
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    DigMorris wrote: »
    I wonder why Ofcom are so reluctant to let go of this prescriptive 30% share. Why would they not let the stations themselves decide whether to use DAB or DAB+? Is it because they fear the stations would all en masse opt for DAB+ and leave listeners with older radios in the cold? That would hardly be a commercially sensible decision for most stations so not very likely.
    I can't see DAB+ now being adopted in the UK as Ofcom has effectively sidelined it for the second national multiplex where we needed its adoption to push forward any future transition. Now its going to be primarily DAB and with the radio industry being dismissive of DAB+, I think DAB+ is done for the UK. Ofcom have allowed more incentive for the industry to adopt conditional access on D2 than they have of DAB+!
  • InkblotInkblot Posts: 26,889
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    DigMorris wrote: »
    I wonder why Ofcom are so reluctant to let go of this prescriptive 30% share. Why would they not let the stations themselves decide whether to use DAB or DAB+? Is it because they fear the stations would all en masse opt for DAB+ and leave listeners with older radios in the cold? That would hardly be a commercially sensible decision for most stations so not very likely.

    It's weird because it sounds inherently anti-competitive. If the whole multiplex could be used for DAB+ then it should allow more competition because transmission costs should be lower. By forcing stations either to use DAB (which everyone says is more expensive than DAB+), or to bid for limited DAB+ bandwidth, surely it artificially maintains higher transmission costs?

    Or is that the point: Ofcom is introducing an anticompetitive clause into the licence to make it more likely to be profitable for the licence holder?
  • mattdmattd Posts: 1,086
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    Tghe-retford, I'm not sure why you're convinced we all hate DAB+. Industry wise we're all quite pro it and lots argued to Ofcom for the ability to have more of it on all multiplexes.
  • dpbdpb Posts: 12,031
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    I’m undecided about the 30% limit on DAB+. On one hand a multiplex full of DAB+ would do nothing for the consumers who have a DAB set which can’t get DAB+ - it would add no extra choice to them currently. On the other hand a multiplex full of DAB+ could bring a lot of new players on board in particular make it a bit more affordable to smaller players who could bring some real specialist music choice – and therefore it could attract more people to invest in a DAB set.

    Still 30% could add 4 or 8 extra services (having a quick look at the Australia multiplexes on wohnort there’s a mixture of services using bit rates of between 40 and 80 not sure in what quality) so all is not lost.
  • Gerry1Gerry1 Posts: 4,215
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    Once again, Ofcom have shown themselves as useful as a chocolate teapot.

    They should have ruled that only 30% of a mux can be mono, but that DAB+ is up to the broadcaster to decide. :)
  • DigMorrisDigMorris Posts: 451
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    Well, DAB+ is now seriously considered to be an option in the UK. Ofcom tested DAB+ in Brighton, it is explicitly mentioned in the 2nd DAB Multiplex advertisement (previously it would fall under the 30% data clause) and DAB+ support has been made compulsory to meet the Digital Radio Tick requirements.

    Considering DAB+ appears to be seen as having a future in the UK by the powers that be, I wonder if Ofcom might think it could be too successful too quickly. 30% means there is room for a number of good quality DAB+ stations but it wouldn't disenfranchise over 10 million people with a DAB-only radio.

    Perhaps this is an easy-does-it approach for the benefit of listeners. A maximum of 30% now. In a few years when millions of new receivers supporting DAB+ have been sold (a million a year in cars alone) they might move to 60% or scrap it altogether.

    It could also be an easy-does-it approach for the benefit of the infrastructure competition. If this second multiplex is not exploited by Arqiva this sudden pro-DAB+ change might hurt their business. By allowing Arqiva to adapt to the possibility of distributing DAB+ (they could now start offering stations a DAB+ slot using the 30% data clause) they guarantee that the market remains somewhat healthy.
  • Gerry1Gerry1 Posts: 4,215
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    dpb wrote: »
    ... a multiplex full of DAB+ would do nothing for the consumers who have a DAB set which can’t get DAB+ - it would add no extra choice to them currently.
    Many people would see the name of an exciting new service displayed on their plain vanilla DAB radio but not be able to hear it.

    So they'd upgrade their software to DAB+ if feasible, or they'd look for the Digital Tick when buying a new radio or a new car !
  • Gerry1Gerry1 Posts: 4,215
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    DigMorris wrote: »
    Perhaps this is an easy-does-it approach for the benefit of listeners.
    Absolutely not.

    If a mux already has 30% DAB+, it prevents a potential new entrant launching a new DAB+ service. If they can't afford the additional expense to launch it on old inefficient DAB, then it simply won't happen.

    Ofcom's 'light touch' means the audio quality is down to the broadcaster (and it will be down), yet there's an arbitrary limit on DAB+. It just doesn't make sense, but sense it not something associated with Ofcom.
  • dpbdpb Posts: 12,031
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    Gerry1 wrote: »
    Many people would see the name of an exciting new service displayed on their plain vanilla DAB radio but not be able to hear it.

    So they'd upgrade their software to DAB+ if feasible, or they'd look for the Digital Tick when buying a new radio or a new car !

    Easy enough for me but would it be easy enough for everyone? Not to mention getting the message out there.
  • DigMorrisDigMorris Posts: 451
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    Gerry1 wrote: »
    Absolutely not.

    If a mux already has 30% DAB+, it prevents a potential new entrant launching a new DAB+ service. If they can't afford the additional expense to launch it on old inefficient DAB, then it simply won't happen.

    Ofcom's 'light touch' means the audio quality is down to the broadcaster (and it will be down), yet there's an arbitrary limit on DAB+. It just doesn't make sense, but sense it not something associated with Ofcom.

    Fair enough. Perhaps I should have written "for the benefit of listeners with a DAB-only radio".

    We shall see. I think nobody can really assess the demand for DAB+ capacity yet. You can survey existing stations about their DAB+ plans but you don't know how many people would be interested in starting a new station if national coverage suddenly becomes a lot cheaper thanks to DAB+. Not until it is actually available early next year.

    Whether the 30% is reached within two months or not for another two years remains to be seen. Until the 30% is hit I'll hold my judgement about whether the cap made sense. I'm just trying to understand the various reasons Ofcom may have.
  • Gerry1Gerry1 Posts: 4,215
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    dpb wrote: »
    Easy enough for me but would it be easy enough for everyone? Not to mention getting the message out there.
    No pain, no gain !

    To assist the changeover, in many cases the main service could switch to stereo DAB+ with a 'twilight' DAB service (say 48kbit/s) keeping a lo-fi presence on older DAB-only radios for a while.
  • kevkev Posts: 21,075
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    Gerry1 wrote: »
    Many people would see the name of an exciting new service displayed on their plain vanilla DAB radio but not be able to hear it.

    So they'd upgrade their software to DAB+ if feasible, or they'd look for the Digital Tick when buying a new radio or a new car !
    Actually they wouldn't appear, as far as old dab sets are concerned dab+ services are data channels, thankfully.
  • tghe-retfordtghe-retford Posts: 26,449
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    mattd wrote: »
    Tghe-retford, I'm not sure why you're convinced we all hate DAB+. Industry wise we're all quite pro it and lots argued to Ofcom for the ability to have more of it on all multiplexes.
    You'll have to excuse my cynicism but when you have a radio industry representative dismiss DAB+ as merely only pandering to a small number of "audiophiles", Ofcom removing regulation on DAB whilst continuing to impose limits on DAB+ on Digital Two and radio industry experts along with Ofcom using the old 'people are satisfied with the audio quality of DAB' line as well as stating that old radios will be made redundant (but still going ahead with making 150m+ perfectly working FM radios redundant) it's hard to maintain any optimism of any transition to DAB+ with decent quality audio in stereo as a worthy successor to FM (DAB could do that, but only with bitrates that would make DAB commercially unviable). I'll start to change my tune if we see any DAB+ service launch on Digital Two.
  • kevkev Posts: 21,075
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    You'll have to excuse my cynicism but when you have a radio industry representative dismiss DAB+ ...

    Have you read the technical code update document Ofcom published today? In it they acknowledge that all except one of the commentators wanted DAB+ at greater than 30% but have decided to keep the limit anyway, but with it being reviewed in 2018 which would allow the new national DAB multiplex to be on air.
    Consultation responses
    3.6 With one exception, respondents were unanimous in their support for our proposal to
    include the DAB+ standard into our Code. One individual who was not in favour
    4
    commented that DAB+ should not be permitted until a large number of compatible
    receivers are in use, or that a (receiver) replacement system is in place.
    3.7 Several stakeholders such as Digital Radio Group London Ltd and Bauer Media
    suggested that the ability to adopt the DAB+ standard should be extended to all
    existing multiplex operators and not just the new national multiplex licensee. Voice of
    the Listener and Viewer (VLV) said that it welcomed the opportunity for all DAB
    operators to migrate to DAB+ and Arqiva commented that it wanted to see a level
    playing field for both national and local multiplexes.
    3.8 Stakeholders did not generally agree with our proposals to limit the proportion of the
    new national multiplex capacity to be occupied by DAB+ to 30%. Bauer Media said
    that the change to DAB+ would be gradual and therefore the 30% limit was
    unnecessary. This view was shared by other respondents including one confidential
    respondent. The BBC, Frontier Silicon and World DMB added that the basis and
    timing for our proposals to review the 30% limit was unclear. Arqiva sought
    assurance that any such review would involve the industry and said that it would
    welcome the publication of a firm timescale for the review. DRUK was also opposed
    to the 30% limit and argued that commercial reality and the need to reach listeners
    would ensure that the introduction of DAB+ would happen when listeners are ready.

    to which Ofcom responded
    Ofcom consideration of responses
    3.9 We welcome the support from stakeholders’ in response to our proposal for the
    inclusion of the DAB+ standard into the Code.
    3.10 We note stakeholders’ views that a limit is not needed on the proportion of services in
    the second national multiplex that can adopt DAB+. It may be that some respondents
    had not fully taken into account the benefits of the improved spectral efficiency of
    DAB+. This would enable the number of DAB+ stations to match or, depending on
    non-radio data usage, potentially even exceed the number of DAB stations on the
    multiplex, despite the DAB+ cap.
    3.11 Although it is perhaps unlikely that the licensee of the new multiplex would seek to
    completely fill the multiplex with DAB+ services initially, the proposed limit provides a
    guarantee that the second national commercial multiplex will provide a range of
    programme services that are compatible with all digital radio receivers and provide
    listeners with increased choice. Permitting DAB+ provides the opportunity for the
    licensee to launch DAB+ services and sends a clear signal to manufacturers and
    industry that equipment needs to be capable of receiving DAB+ in order to be
    compatible with services that might launch in the future.

    I can certainly see why Bauer would want DAB+ as it would allow them to increase the areas with all their stations.

    It will be interesting to see if any existing stations transfer to Digital 2 (either national or quasi-national) too.
  • Gerry1Gerry1 Posts: 4,215
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    kev wrote: »
    Actually they wouldn't appear, as far as old dab sets are concerned dab+ services are data channels, thankfully.
    Can't agree with you I'm afraid !

    In the UK I upgraded the software on my 2009 Pure Highway, expecting it to handle DAB+. However, in Australia it displayed the DAB+ station names but there was no audio. It also showed a message to visit the Pure website. It was then quite straightforward to get an unlocking code.
  • kevkev Posts: 21,075
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    Gerry1 wrote: »
    Can't agree with you I'm afraid !

    In the UK I upgraded the software on my 2009 Pure Highway, expecting it to handle DAB+. However, in Australia it displayed the DAB+ station names but there was no audio. It also showed a message to visit the Pure website. It was then quite straightforward to get an unlocking code.
    That's because your radio is a DAB+ capable radio, it's just that Pure were too stingy to pay for the licence fees for the relevant codec. Most radios aren't upgradable like that and therefore don't have a clue what to do with DAB+ and will treat it as another data channel.
  • hanssolohanssolo Posts: 22,648
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    It says in the report that there will be capacity for around ten stereo radio stations.
    Let's hope this is the case, and we wont end up with about thirty mono stations sounding like old tin boxes.
    From the last bids
    http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/media/news/a44595/channel-4-ngw-bid-for-dab-multiplex.html#~oIMeR25tfTBcbS
    E4 Radio (youthful interactive entertainment); Unlikely
    Channel 4 Radio (contemporary public service speech); Unlikely
    Pure4 (intelligent contemporary adult); Unlikely
    Talk Radio (UTV - news, views and entertainment); possible
    Closer (EMAP - female adult contemporary, celebrity and lifestyle); possible
    Sky News Radio; possible
    Sunrise Radio; Unlikely
    Virgin Radio Viva (SMG - female-friendly pop with attitude); Unlikely
    Original (CanWest - adult album alternative); Unlikely
    Radio Disney.Unlikely
    and podcast service Unlikely
    But if Sky are closing Sky sports radio unlikely to put Sky radio news on DAB?
    Also possible
    Heat? Kerrang? in stereo?
    Absolute 60's and 00's, Absolute 80s, to go back to stereo and make space on D1 for some D1 stations to go back to stereo?
    Gold, Arrow and Chill in stereo?
    UCB inspirational?
    WS and Asian NW to create space on BBC mux
    Jazz FM in stereo?
    Return of Virgin UK in stereo?
  • tghe-retfordtghe-retford Posts: 26,449
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    kev wrote: »
    I can certainly see why Bauer would want DAB+ as it would allow them to increase the areas with all their stations.

    It will be interesting to see if any existing stations transfer to Digital 2 (either national or quasi-national) too.
    The problem is, we'll have a situation as we have now, another multiplex full of DAB services with no opportunity for a orderly transition to DAB+ and the continuing arguments I mentioned above which will stop DAB+ introduction in its tracks.
  • hanssolohanssolo Posts: 22,648
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    The problem is, we'll have a situation as we have now, another multiplex full of DAB services with no opportunity for a orderly transition to DAB+ and the continuing arguments I mentioned above which will stop DAB+ introduction in its tracks.
    That depends who bids? If Bauer are involved then they may use the chance to migrate Kiss, Planetrock and the Absolute stations on D1 to DAB+ stereo?
  • SouthCitySouthCity Posts: 12,465
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    The problem is, we'll have a situation as we have now, another multiplex full of DAB services with no opportunity for a orderly transition to DAB+ and the continuing arguments I mentioned above which will stop DAB+ introduction in its tracks.

    It's difficult to see how the market is going to support another 14 national vanilla-DAB stations (mainly in mono).

    Some of them could be the Absolute decade stations but I can't see where the others are coming from if they are relying on advertising to fund them.
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