-Simon - with one foot out the door, and even when it wasn't he always plays this game of championing or knocking people just to oppose the other judges.
-Randy - who is one of the most annoying, useless people on the planet
-Kara - who is a smug know it all, who doesn't actually know it all
and
-Ellen - who is totally irrelevant, even if she's occasionally witty
Look, Ellen isn’t supposed to be an expert. We have 3 experts on the panel, and that’s all we ever had on Idol.
Ellen is there to bring a bit of personality and humour, and give the opinion of a layman/viewer. She’s also adopted the role of providing the “positive comments” that Paula used to do, and that’s an important role because it allows the others to be a little more honest knowing that at least Ellen will have something nice to say.
Overall I think Ellen is a great judge, although considering Simon’s leaving, it hardly matters because the show will fall apart without him, and I much preferred the panel before Kara joined. Simon, Randy and Paula were just perfect, and a great team.
If you think Ellen is bad, presumably you never saw any of the utterly abominable guest judges in the audition stage? Victoria Beckham in particular was absolutely awful: vacuous, uninsightful and uncharismatic.
-Simon - with one foot out the door, and even when it wasn't he always plays this game of championing or knocking people just to oppose the other judges.
-Randy - who is one of the most annoying, useless people on the planet
-Kara - who is a smug know it all, who doesn't actually know it all
and
-Ellen - who is totally irrelevant, even if she's occasionally witty
I agree about Kara. She gets right on my wick! She wasn't too bad last season, but now Paula's gone she's just taking over.
I can't stand Ellen either, she hasn't a clue.
Simon obviously couldn't give a monkey's now he's going.
Ellen is there to bring a bit of personality and humour, and give the opinion of a layman/viewer. She’s also adopted the role of providing the “positive comments” that Paula used to do, and that’s an important role because it allows the others to be a little more honest knowing that at least Ellen will have something nice to say.
The viewers vote provides the layman element - they don't need to be told the obvious. Also judges should give honest appraisals, not take the role of being positive - and Ellen doesn't even comment on performances anyway - she just tries to turn everything she says into a joke. No wonder she failed as a comedian.
The viewers vote provides the layman element - they don't need to be told the obvious. Also judges should give honest appraisals, not take the role of being positive - and Ellen doesn't even comment on performances anyway - she just tries to turn everything she says into a joke. No wonder she failed as a comedian.
Eh? Like her or not she was a very sucessful comedian.
Admittedly she took a couple of shows to find her stride but she lightens the gloom and can give a critique without making contestants feel too bad - unlike Mr PMT every week Cowell, who has been really caustic.
Look, Ellen isn’t supposed to be an expert. We have 3 experts on the panel, and that’s all we ever had on Idol.
Ellen is there to bring a bit of personality and humour, and give the opinion of a layman/viewer. She’s also adopted the role of providing the “positive comments” that Paula used to do, and that’s an important role because it allows the others to be a little more honest knowing that at least Ellen will have something nice to say.
Overall I think Ellen is a great judge, although considering Simon’s leaving, it hardly matters because the show will fall apart without him, and I much preferred the panel before Kara joined. Simon, Randy and Paula were just perfect, and a great team.
I agree with all of this although I do like Kara a lot and don't really miss Paula much. As for what you said about the show falling apart after Simon leaves, if we use what happened here in the UK as a benchmark it won't really matter to much to the veiwer as it will be replaced by the Xfactor. Obviously it will matter to everyone who works on AI as they will lose there jobs, unless they have befriended Simon as he may takes people he likes with him. In other words bye bye Ryan lol
I just realised that was all completely off subject, so to clarify, I like Ellen and her bananas
I think they're over-doing the 'Ellen is hilarious' thing at the moment. Ryan's big overdone fake laughs when he's introducing her are making me cringe. Same with some of the other judges' reactions to anything she says or does. Just let her get on with her quips and react in a realistic manner to those.
I think they're over-doing the 'Ellen is hilarious' thing at the moment. Ryan's big overdone fake laughs when he's introducing her are making me cringe. Same with some of the other judges' reactions to anything she says or does. Just let her get on with her quips and react in a realistic manner to those.
Randy in particular seems to give her a pat on the back every time she cracks a joke! But she was better on the girls night, at least more relaxed.
does anyone else agree that ellen's eyes are just weird? They never seem to move, they're so expressionless. Kara is more composed this season-last year she was obsessed with trying to outdo paula.
she clearly doesnt know much about music i mean i dont either but i dont claim to bea judge on ai-i dont like it when she says, "i really like u "and then goes off on one about bananas- the contestant stands there looking awkward like dont try and patronise me
but on the other hand she brings a bit of humour and light hearted relief
She'd be great on America's Got Talent, but on Idol she is just not working.
I think FOX locked her into a 5 year contract or something stupid, but I'd assume they'll have a get out clause in there - and I'd definately be getting her out next year and bring in two newcomers - both really replacing Simon Cowell - one the name (with some credibility to back it up), and another from within the music industry who is probably a complete unknown at the moment.
The viewers vote provides the layman element - they don't need to be told the obvious. Also judges should give honest appraisals, not take the role of being positive - and Ellen doesn't even comment on performances anyway - she just tries to turn everything she says into a joke. No wonder she failed as a comedian.
I disagree; I think the show needs a representative 'layperson' on the panel to distance it from the producer spin that is often very evident in the other judges' remarks. The trouble is we are too knowledgable about shows like this these days, too aware of how the viewers' vote can be subtly manipulated by performance order, song choice, an unnecessarily harsh critique from Simon. On the other hand, it is very difficult to imagine someone like Ellen being a part of that; she's too much the outsider, her humour is too sharp and caustic. When she gives her opinion, I'm never suspicious that she's simply following a producer script. She was an excellent choice as judge from that perspective, someone who is highly unlikely (and too much of a big name in her own right) to kowtow to the producers.
And it is not as if the other judges, in general, give serious musical advice. That's not what the show's about: it's entertainment, not a way to help people improve. I don't think the musical critiques of the other judges can be taken too seriously, although Kara is occasionally insightful.
The trouble is we are too knowledgable about shows like this these days, too aware of how the viewers' vote can be subtly manipulated by performance order, song choice, an unnecessarily harsh critique from Simon.
In American Idol, the song choice is the contestant's to make.
An unnecessarily harsh critique from Simon (and this is totally subjective as sometimes I think he isn't harsh enough) can work both ways and more often than not, it results in a sympathy vote for the contestant.
On the other hand, it is very difficult to imagine someone like Ellen being a part of that; she's too much the outsider, her humour is too sharp and caustic. When she gives her opinion, I'm never suspicious that she's simply following a producer script. She was an excellent choice as judge from that perspective, someone who is highly unlikely (and too much of a big name in her own right) to kowtow to the producers.
I don't think Ellen is an outsider in that respect at all. She has a successful TV show and most likely understands the work involved in making a hit programme. She'll be very keen to ensure that the show continues to be a success because she is now tied in for 5 years.
On Idol, Cowell isn't a producer. But given the ego, his involvement before the show was on air and his status on the show, I think he's unlikely to take much direction especially when he stands to make money out of the contestants after the show. In the end, he always backs the contestant he thinks has the best shot at selling records.
In American Idol, the song choice is the contestant's to make.
An unnecessarily harsh critique from Simon (and this is totally subjective as sometimes I think he isn't harsh enough) can work both ways and more often than not, it results in a sympathy vote for the contestant.
To a certain extent - apparently last week, Alex had another song in mind but was persuaded to sing the one he eventually did. And yes, by unnecessarily harsh critique I meant that the contestant will get a sympathy vote, but often I think that's deliberate (as with Siobhan last week - there's no way Simon didn't know how good she as. He just wanted to keep people voting for her).
It's not just American Idol, in any case. We're too savvy about all these types of show now, and once the illusion's gone the show's on its way out. Hence the importance of having someone perceived to be above the spin (I'd say Dannii plays a similar role in XF).
I don't think Ellen is an outsider in that respect at all. She has a successful TV show and most likely understands the work involved in making a hit programme. She'll be very keen to ensure that the show continues to be a success because she is now tied in for 5 years.
On Idol, Cowell isn't a producer. But given the ego, his involvement before the show was on air and his status on the show, I think he's unlikely to take much direction especially when he stands to make money out of the contestants after the show. In the end, he always backs the contestant he thinks has the best shot at selling records.
Yes, but it's all about perception. I can't imagine Ellen taking direction on her comments from the producers - her TV persona and her style of humour are all about being forthright and cutting through the crap. Even if she is guided by what they say, the important thing is it doesn't seem like it, which lends a sort of authenticity to the show which it wouldn't have if we thought the judges were under the producers' thumbs.
Cowell does (usually) back the contestant likely to sell records, but his criticisms are anything but straightforward appraisals of how good/bad a contestant is; he knows how the show works (hell, he pretty much invented these kinds of shows in their current form) and he knows just what effect an over-critical/over-effusive comment can have, the impact of telling someone they don't have 'star quality'. I think it's a bit of a game for him now, seeing how much he can affect the voting. As another thread on here says, I don't think he has the credibility as an honest, direct judge that he used to (and certainly not for anyone who's seen X Factor). He's not in the middle of the spin, he pretty much is the spin!
I like her as a person, and have got used to her on the panel. I don't find her comments any less qualified than Simon's, in comparison to Kara and Randy. $imon's main skill is that of self-promotion, not musical taste or knowledge.
The thing about Ellen's quips are they are very US-specific, usually mentioning some obscure US character or household product. I manage to laugh along without needing to Google them though. At least the one about the hospital gown travels well.
Comments
-Simon - with one foot out the door, and even when it wasn't he always plays this game of championing or knocking people just to oppose the other judges.
-Randy - who is one of the most annoying, useless people on the planet
-Kara - who is a smug know it all, who doesn't actually know it all
and
-Ellen - who is totally irrelevant, even if she's occasionally witty
Ellen is there to bring a bit of personality and humour, and give the opinion of a layman/viewer. She’s also adopted the role of providing the “positive comments” that Paula used to do, and that’s an important role because it allows the others to be a little more honest knowing that at least Ellen will have something nice to say.
Overall I think Ellen is a great judge, although considering Simon’s leaving, it hardly matters because the show will fall apart without him, and I much preferred the panel before Kara joined. Simon, Randy and Paula were just perfect, and a great team.
If you think Ellen is bad, presumably you never saw any of the utterly abominable guest judges in the audition stage? Victoria Beckham in particular was absolutely awful: vacuous, uninsightful and uncharismatic.
I agree about Kara. She gets right on my wick! She wasn't too bad last season, but now Paula's gone she's just taking over.
I can't stand Ellen either, she hasn't a clue.
Simon obviously couldn't give a monkey's now he's going.
Randy's the best IMHO.
The viewers vote provides the layman element - they don't need to be told the obvious. Also judges should give honest appraisals, not take the role of being positive - and Ellen doesn't even comment on performances anyway - she just tries to turn everything she says into a joke. No wonder she failed as a comedian.
Eh? Like her or not she was a very sucessful comedian.
Admittedly she took a couple of shows to find her stride but she lightens the gloom and can give a critique without making contestants feel too bad - unlike Mr PMT every week Cowell, who has been really caustic.
I agree with all of this although I do like Kara a lot and don't really miss Paula much. As for what you said about the show falling apart after Simon leaves, if we use what happened here in the UK as a benchmark it won't really matter to much to the veiwer as it will be replaced by the Xfactor. Obviously it will matter to everyone who works on AI as they will lose there jobs, unless they have befriended Simon as he may takes people he likes with him. In other words bye bye Ryan lol
I just realised that was all completely off subject, so to clarify, I like Ellen and her bananas
Kara was a novice last season and was OK but she's very good this year, constructive and fair.
Given time Ellen can progress equally as well.
Randy in particular seems to give her a pat on the back every time she cracks a joke! But she was better on the girls night, at least more relaxed.
but on the other hand she brings a bit of humour and light hearted relief
im still in two minds
I think FOX locked her into a 5 year contract or something stupid, but I'd assume they'll have a get out clause in there - and I'd definately be getting her out next year and bring in two newcomers - both really replacing Simon Cowell - one the name (with some credibility to back it up), and another from within the music industry who is probably a complete unknown at the moment.
And it is not as if the other judges, in general, give serious musical advice. That's not what the show's about: it's entertainment, not a way to help people improve. I don't think the musical critiques of the other judges can be taken too seriously, although Kara is occasionally insightful.
In American Idol, the song choice is the contestant's to make.
An unnecessarily harsh critique from Simon (and this is totally subjective as sometimes I think he isn't harsh enough) can work both ways and more often than not, it results in a sympathy vote for the contestant.
I don't think Ellen is an outsider in that respect at all. She has a successful TV show and most likely understands the work involved in making a hit programme. She'll be very keen to ensure that the show continues to be a success because she is now tied in for 5 years.
On Idol, Cowell isn't a producer. But given the ego, his involvement before the show was on air and his status on the show, I think he's unlikely to take much direction especially when he stands to make money out of the contestants after the show. In the end, he always backs the contestant he thinks has the best shot at selling records.
It's not just American Idol, in any case. We're too savvy about all these types of show now, and once the illusion's gone the show's on its way out. Hence the importance of having someone perceived to be above the spin (I'd say Dannii plays a similar role in XF).
Cowell does (usually) back the contestant likely to sell records, but his criticisms are anything but straightforward appraisals of how good/bad a contestant is; he knows how the show works (hell, he pretty much invented these kinds of shows in their current form) and he knows just what effect an over-critical/over-effusive comment can have, the impact of telling someone they don't have 'star quality'. I think it's a bit of a game for him now, seeing how much he can affect the voting. As another thread on here says, I don't think he has the credibility as an honest, direct judge that he used to (and certainly not for anyone who's seen X Factor). He's not in the middle of the spin, he pretty much is the spin!
Ha! My sister and I were just saying that whenever she talks, we picture her as Dory.
I am becoming increasingly frustrated by Ellen preempting every comment with a "joke".
The thing about Ellen's quips are they are very US-specific, usually mentioning some obscure US character or household product. I manage to laugh along without needing to Google them though. At least the one about the hospital gown travels well.