iPlayer catchup window to be extended to 30 days

BenFranklinBenFranklin Posts: 5,814
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/statements/bbc-iplayer-thirty-days.html

Good news, was a struggle to justify it being 7 days.
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  • KennyTKennyT Posts: 20,700
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    To be clear, it was possible to extend the 7 days already by downloading, and all the episodes of series linked shows were available up to 7 days after the broadcast of the final episode.

    But welcome all the same.

    K
  • RadiogramRadiogram Posts: 3,515
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    Good news. Makes it easier to catch up on stuff after being on holiday etc if you forget to set the PVR.
  • JAS84JAS84 Posts: 7,430
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    Yeah, 7 days was no good if you go on holiday for a week. If the show was broadcast on the first day of a week's holiday or first week of a fortnight's holiday, it's been and gone from iPlayer by the time you return.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 660
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    It's good but it should be covered by the TV licence. No TVL no i player. The sooner this flaw is changed the better
  • RadiogramRadiogram Posts: 3,515
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    Oh dear, someone mentioned the TVL fee but I think we got away with it......

    Tiptoes away quietly before the usual suspect get wind of it.....
  • DWA9ISDWA9IS Posts: 10,557
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    What I want to know is why in the process they seem to be scrapping the series stacking option? That's a backwards step, I think the series stacking should stay and on that only the 7day after the series finishes applies.
    the 30 option can be for other things one offs and very short series that only have 2-3 episodes in, or the whole series gets shown in 1 week.
  • mossy2103mossy2103 Posts: 84,307
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    This is what the Trust had to say about the removal of Series Stacking:
    Changes will increase the availability of a wider range of programmes and, by removing series stacking, will do so on a more uniform basis. Current on-demand permissions mean certain programmes** are available for less time than those that are series stacked (the number of series that can be stacked is subject to certain restrictions in the service licence^^).

    <snipped>

    ....... the proposals entail the removal of series stacking for television but we believe that any consequent impact on audiences will be limited. Firstly, series stacking applies to 15% of on-demand content and as a result, contributes a relatively small (2%) share of total iPlayer viewing after day seven. Secondly, when the removal of series stacking is combined with the extension of the catch-up window, the cumulative effect reduces the impact further; after day 30, the contribution of series stacked titles to overall iPlayer viewing is very small.

    Thirdly, current awareness and usage of series stacking on iPlayer is relatively limited. According to 2013 BBC research, nearly 40% of survey respondents were not aware of series stacking and a further 29% were aware of it but had not used it.
    http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/assets/files/pdf/our_work/on_demand/2014/thirty_day_assessment.pdf


    ** For example, those comprising single episodes and continuous or long-running series.


    ^^ The Series Stacking restriction is explained here:
    Series stacking on iPlayer is currently limited by its service licence, with an annual quota of 15% of all titles available on iPlayer – in addition, for editorial reasons all stackable content must have a narrative arc or offer “exceptionally high impact”
    http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/assets/files/pdf/our_work/on_demand/2014/mediatique_on_demand.pdf

    There's plenty of food for thought in that second document compiled by Mediatique Ltd for the BBC.
  • StrakerStraker Posts: 79,567
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    Promised for the summer and still nowhere to be seen, just like the report into kiddie-fiddlers at the Beeb in the 70s.
  • d'@ved'@ve Posts: 45,452
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    mossy2103 wrote: »

    It says 69% of survey respondents were unaware of or had not used series stacking (including me!) so with the excellent extension to 30 days for all programmes, I think it is something we can do without.

    But for me, by far the most useful method of viewing BBC TV programmes on catch-up is the 2 hour rolling chase-play that's available on their 'live TV' section of the BBC website. I use that often and every day and I wish they would extend it to radio as well, and perhaps add an hour ot two to the existing 2 hours. It's quite simply a brilliant idea and I take my hat off to whoever developed and agreed it.
  • mossy2103mossy2103 Posts: 84,307
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    Straker wrote: »
    Promised for the summer and still nowhere to be seen
    It certainly seems to apply to new series such as New Tricks, Our Zoo, GBBO (and quite possibly WDYTYA) - I assume that it won't apply to archive material or shows where the appropriate rights agreements were not obtained at the time of commissioning/production. So It would be likely to be something that is going to be phased in.
    , just like the report into kiddie-fiddlers at the Beeb in the 70s.
    Which was quite correctly held back whilst current cases were going through the courts. To my knowledge, that included charges relating to Dave Lee Travis.


    ETA:
    From the Dame Janet Smith Review website:
    Update – 23rd May 2014

    Representatives of the Review attended the recent trial of Stuart Hall in Preston Crown Court. Those proceedings will be considered by the Review, as part of the process of finalising the Review’s Report.

    The question has now arisen as to whether publication of the Report should be further delayed until after the forthcoming trial of Dave Lee Travis, which the Review understands is expected to take place in early September.

    It will be recalled that, when it was announced that Stuart Hall was to face a second trial, Lancashire Police and the Crown Prosecution Service (North West) requested that publication of the Report be delayed until after the conclusion of his trial to avoid any risk that publication might prejudice the fairness of that trial. Dame Janet Smith and Dame Linda Dobbs agreed that publication should be delayed. In any event, it would not have been possible for Dame Linda to complete her part of the Report until the outcome of the trial was known.

    Whilst the charges brought against Dave Lee Travis do not fall directly within the Review’s Terms of Reference, the Review understands that they do, in part, relate to his work for the BBC. Dame Janet takes the view that the possibility does exist that publication of her Report may affect the fairness of the Dave Lee Travis trial, just as it was thought it could have been suggested publication would have affected the trial of Stuart Hall.

    For that reason and in the interests of ensuring that the independence and fairness of the criminal process is maintained, Dame Janet has decided that her Report should not be delivered until after the conclusion of the trial of Dave Lee Travis. The BBC is aware of and agrees with this decision.


    The Review will update its website when a more precise estimated delivery date is known.
    http://www.damejanetsmithreview.com/updates/

    And an update from today:
    Update – 15th September 2014

    The Review has been in contact with approximately 740 people. In connection with the investigation into Jimmy Savile, the Review has had over 350 telephone conversations with witnesses (all of which have been noted) and almost 190 witness interviews have taken place. In addition, in relation to the investigation into Stuart Hall, the Review has had over 100 noted telephone conversations with witnesses and a further 31 witness interviews have taken place.

    While the Review is nearing the end of its work, it continues to conduct interviews and to receive relevant evidence. The Review expects that its Report will be finalised before the end of the year. When a publication date is known, a further update will be provided.
  • StrakerStraker Posts: 79,567
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    mossy2103 wrote: »
    It certainly seems to apply to new series such as New Tricks, Our Zoo, GBBO (and quite possibly WDYTYA) - I assume that it won't apply to archive material or shows where the appropriate rights agreements were not obtained at the time of commissioning/production. So It would be likely to be something that is going to be phased in.

    Betjemanland was pulled down after 7 days - BBC4 show. The Two Amigos is gone from iPlayer as well and those are only two of the most recent shows I`ve gone looking for. Series are treated differently and have been for some time so it`s nothing new to be able to watch New Tricks, Our Zoo etc in one go. I did Happy Valley in the same way. Shouldn`t be bits that are and bits that aren`t - 30 days for everything is what was promised by the Summer. Other broadcasters manage it without fanfare so why are the Beeb STILL dragging their feet after making more promises they have failed to keep?
    Which was quite correctly held back whilst current cases were going through the courts. To my knowledge, that included charges relating to Dave Lee Travis.

    They`ll always find a reason to hold it back. I`ll put money on it not being published this year.
  • mossy2103mossy2103 Posts: 84,307
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    Straker wrote: »
    Betjemanland was pulled down after 7 days - BBC4 show. The Two Amigos is gone from iPlayer as well and those are only two of the most recent shows I`ve gone looking for. Series are treated differently and have been for some time so it`s nothing new to be able to watch New Tricks, Our Zoo etc in one go. I did Happy Valley in the same way. Shouldn`t be bits that are and bits that aren`t - 30 days for everything is what was promised by the Summer. Other broadcasters manage it without fanfare so why are the Beeb STILL dragging their feet after making more promises they have failed to keep?
    As I stated, it's going to be down to the old issue of rights - rights negotiated prior to the agreement on 30 days from the BBC Trust will probably not allow for a 30-day retention (but in some cases will allow for series stacking). It is unlikely that rights will be renegotiated for those programmes. So it is a realistic and practical prospect to see the 30 days being rolled out progressively as new series are commissioned and shown, regardless as to what you might wish to see.

    And I don't think that the BBC said that it would apply to all programmes from day one either.


    From April:
    BBC Executive response to BBC Trust's approval of 30-day catch-up window for BBC iPlayer
    Date: 07.04.2014 Last updated: 08.05.2014 at 13.26
    Category: BBC iPlayer; Corporate
    The BBC Executive today issued the following statement regarding the BBC Trust's approval of the 30-day catch-up window for BBC iPlayer.

    People keep telling us they want programmes to be available on BBC iPlayer for longer - so extending availability from seven to 30 days will make iPlayer even better.

    New iPlayer already has downloads, better recommendations, HD, live restart, favourites and collections, and extending the catch-up window to 30 days gives people even longer to enjoy their favourite BBC programmes.

    We will now set about making this happen with the aim to roll this out from the summer.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/statements/bbc-iplayer-thirty-days

    Note that final sentence, especially the words "roll this out from this summer", which implies a gradual and phased rollout.

    It is also likely that some films and sports will not be part of this 30-day window, again due to rights issues.


    They`ll always find a reason to hold it back. I`ll put money on it not being published this year.
    So avoiding prejudicing on-going court cases is not a legitimate reason? Or would you prefer any such cases to be declared mistrials, and for potentially guilty people to walk free? Because that's what would happen.,

    BTW, there was only this delay over the Summer because the Jury failed to agree on two of the charges against DLT earlier in February, thus leading to a retrial this month. No-one could have foreseen that happening. And it was only the 25th July that the retrial ruling was made by the judge.
  • StrakerStraker Posts: 79,567
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    mossy2103 wrote: »
    As I stated, it's going to be down to the old issue of rights - rights negotiated prior to the agreement on 30 days from the BBC Trust will probably not allow for a 30-day retention (but in some cases will allow for series stacking). It is unlikely that rights will be renegotiated for those programmes. So it is a realistic and practical prospect to see the 30 days being rolled out progressively as new series are commissioned and shown, regardless as to what you might wish to see.

    You`re guessing in order to defend the BBC. No surprise there but don`t try and dress it up as anything else.
    mossy2103 wrote: »
    And I don't think that the BBC said that it would apply to all programmes from day one either.


    Note that final sentence, especially the words "roll this out from this summer", which implies a gradual and phased rollout.

    And where is the rollout? Other than cosmetic changes to cater to five year olds on tablets I see no difference in the iPlayer now compared to 6 months ago. They`ve done diddly squat and you know it but again, you`re in default BBC mode as per.
    mossy2103 wrote: »
    So avoiding prejudicing on-going court cases is not a legitimate reason? Or would you prefer any such cases to be declared mistrials, and for potentially guilty people to walk free? Because that's what would happen.,

    BTW, there was only this delay over the Summer because the Jury failed to agree on two of the charges against DLT earlier in February, thus leading to a retrial this month. No-one could have foreseen that happening. And it was only the 25th July that the retrial ruling was made by the judge.

    Report is delayed nearly a year now and will be delayed further because as far as the BBC is concerned the longer the gap the less damaging it is for them. That and they can get a nice bonfire going out back.

    Your defence of them come what may is now comical. Read this post with my laughter as the soundtrack.
  • mossy2103mossy2103 Posts: 84,307
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    Straker wrote: »
    You`re guessing in order to defend the BBC. No surprise there but don`t try and dress it up as anything else.
    Of course it's a guess, but it's a reasonable and educated one. No "defence" needed in order to offer a reasonable explanation.


    But since you seem to be closed to any reasoned discussion, preferring instead to offer barbed personal comments in an aggressive manner, I have nothing else to add.
    And where is the rollout? Other than cosmetic changes to cater to five year olds on tablets I see no difference in the iPlayer now compared to 6 months ago. They`ve done diddly squat and you know it but again, you`re in default BBC mode as per.
    *sigh* the rollout of the 30 day window, as per the context of both your original post and the context of my replies here.
    Your defence of them come what may is now comical. Read this post with my laughter as the soundtrack.
    I am reading your post and shaking my head in disbelief at your reply here.
  • StrakerStraker Posts: 79,567
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    mossy2103 wrote: »
    Of course it's a guess, but it's a reasonable and educated one. No "defence" needed in order to offer a reasonable explanation.


    But since you seem to be closed to any reasoned discussion, preferring instead to offer barbed personal comments in an aggressive manner, I have nothing else to add.

    *sigh* the rollout of the 30 day window, as per the context of both your original post and the context of my replies here.

    Scroll back through the seventh and the eighth of September on the BBC site and see how little there is available beyond that 7 day window. Other than some series, and a couple of odds and sods, which would`ve been similarly available 6 months back there`s nothing on iPlayer.

    Where is the rollout you reckon has started because I don`t see any sign of it at all?
  • soulboy77soulboy77 Posts: 24,396
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    Radiogram wrote: »
    Oh dear, someone mentioned the TVL fee but I think we got away with it......

    Tiptoes away quietly before the usual suspect get wind of it.....
    I think it is the equivalent to Godwin's Law on here!
  • The PhazerThe Phazer Posts: 8,487
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    The thirty day window has NOT rolled out yet. Mossy, your examples are all programmes that are series stacked or have been repeated and therefore got another seven days from that TX.

    When it is it will be for the vast bulk of programming at once (though I'm sure there will be rights exemptions - I wouldn't have thought much Sport or Acquisitions would be available for thirty days, and those don't tend to be available for that long on ITV Player or 4OD either).

    There is some speculation on Twitter (with some vague BBC allusions but no outright confirmation) that the BBC were trying to roll out thirty days to Radio as a first phase when iPlayer went down a month or so back, and hence it has been pushed back a little to do technical work to make sure that doesn't happen again.
  • alcockellalcockell Posts: 25,160
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    What IS also annoying is how they dumped subtitles for LG tellies - when they could have easily remapped green button to subs in the new product.. I think..
  • Spdub2Spdub2 Posts: 272
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    The Phazer wrote: »
    There is some speculation on Twitter (with some vague BBC allusions but no outright confirmation) that the BBC were trying to roll out thirty days to Radio as a first phase when iPlayer went down a month or so back, and hence it has been pushed back a little to do technical work to make sure that doesn't happen again.

    They actually said they had extended it to 30 days and just in case rolled it back to 7 days on one of the Radio 4 Feedback programme(s) after the iPlayer outage and indeed running get iplayer just before the outage I did get a show that was more than 7 days old
  • StrakerStraker Posts: 79,567
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    The Phazer wrote: »
    The thirty day window has NOT rolled out yet. Mossy, your examples are all programmes that are series stacked or have been repeated and therefore got another seven days from that TX.

    Mossy`s uncharacteristically quiet isn`t he? Choking down some humble pie I reckon.....
  • The PhazerThe Phazer Posts: 8,487
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    Straker wrote: »
    Mossy`s uncharacteristically quiet isn`t he? Choking down some humble pie I reckon.....

    Don't take it as me agreeing with your point - software development can't be an exact science, and it's much more important for a rollout to be good than it is for it to be on time. It'll be ready when it's ready.

    This sort of moaning is what blocks companies from being precise about release dates :-(
  • StrakerStraker Posts: 79,567
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    The Phazer wrote: »
    Don't take it as me agreeing with your point - software development can't be an exact science, and it's much more important for a rollout to be good than it is for it to be on time.

    What "software development"? Leaving stuff up for 30 days instead of 7 hardly strikes me as reinventing the wheel particularly seeing as certain series already last for 30 days with some other stuff being available for months and even a year+. Let`s not forget the original 7 day limitation was an entirely arbitrary figure anyway and one long since ignored by ITV, C4 and most others.
    The Phazer wrote: »
    It'll be ready when it's ready.

    Genius. That`s the sort of attitude that saw £100m+ pissed up the wall on DMI.

    The Phazer wrote: »
    This sort of moaning is what blocks companies from being precise about release dates :-(

    "Summer" the sort of thing that qualifies as "precise" in your book is it?
  • mossy2103mossy2103 Posts: 84,307
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    The Phazer wrote: »
    The thirty day window has NOT rolled out yet. Mossy, your examples are all programmes that are series stacked or have been repeated and therefore got another seven days from that TX.
    Ah, my apologies. They just registered as 30 days (and in some cases 28 days) for recently-broadcast material, so it did look like a partial roll-out. I assumed that Series Stacks would be a higher figure.
  • gomezzgomezz Posts: 44,503
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    The Phazer wrote: »
    It'll be ready when it's ready
    The Michaelangelo excuse! Which I was very happy to use. :)
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