Last week with the dogs was fascinating. This, however, could have been scenes from any hospital. People die all the time.
Should have based the whole programme on Langston. Would have been a good twist.
I thought the point was that they can offer more treatment in the USA to people with such critical medical conditions. Javier (or is it Xavier) and Dante would have died sooner with less interventions. Is it ethical to prolong their lives with the same end result.
Maybe Langston wouldn't have survived either - I can't believe he's up and about! Whether you're religious or not his recovery can only be described as a miracle!
typical religious nonsense desperately clutching at straws.
And whilst your at it, explain why their God allowed him to end up that way in the first place. - Yup! you only have answers to pin to a non-existent God when the outcome is good and have nothing to say when it isn't.
Where was this God when the other two dead?
THAT is how it is claptrap.
I look around me and I see beauty, and I think humanity is more than just random scum on the face of a random planet. We're more than that. There's something VERY special about life. It plays a central role in the universe.
Maybe Langston wouldn't have survived either - I can't believe he's up and about! Whether you're religious or not his recovery can only be described as a miracle!
But in contrast, you had the guy who had been unconscious for 3 years, with no movement or spoken word.....begs the question, how long do you wait?
I too couldnt believe the way Langston walked into the ward....not sure I'd call it a miracle but am glad he recovered
because I would have killed him. Had I had faith I might have saved him. Maybe I need more faith
People do turn to faith but ultimately faith has little to do with it. It's a bit like saying if you go to church every Sunday you'll never get cancer. Well, plenty of people do get cancer who go to church every Sunday. It's just life. Doctors can never be 100% sure about illness and they certainly can't be 100% sure about brain damage. They just have to make the best decision based on the limited information they have. It's never an exact science sadly. Some families may hold on for that 1% chance of recovery.. and perhaps the patient falls into the 1%.. but plenty will be in the 99% too. Religion doesn't decide that.
Whether you're religious or not his recovery can only be described as a miracle!
It can only be described as a miraculous recovery, you don't have to describe it as a miracle.
I would say it would be quite weird for your god to decide to save the life of the guy who took a drug overdose and decide to let the two guys who got cancer through no fault of their own aged 29 and 31 die in agony. Kind of a dick move by your deity there.
It can only be described as a miraculous recovery, you don't have to describe it as a miracle.
I would say it would be quite weird for your god to decide to save the life of the guy who took a drug overdose and decide to let the two guys who got cancer through no fault of their own aged 29 and 31 die in agony. Kind of a dick move by your deity there.
I checked the definition of the word miracle and it can also mean a marvel or wonder which no-one could deny it was.
I'm also wondering why you are saying "your god" and "your deity" to me when I haven't said what my belief is.
because I would have killed him. Had I had faith I might have saved him. Maybe I need more faith
The most unlikely things are always possible. A 0.00001% chance of something is a chance. It was never impossible that he would recover, just so very very very unlikely.
The question is, how much faith do you place in such bad odds? I would personally say it's irrational to have much faith in something so unlikely. The way his family were talking so matter-of-factly about him recovering is no doubt a stance taken by people every day who are ultimately wrong.
It's quite possible for irrational or even bad decisions to actually result in a positive outcome. If I jump off a building, maybe I'll actually be caught by someone. And maybe that person just so happens to be the woman of my dreams and we go off, get married and have a wonderful life together. But ultimately, that wouldn't make my decision to jump off a building a good idea just because it worked out.
I look around me and I see beauty, and I think humanity is more than just random scum on the face of a random planet. We're more than that. There's something VERY special about life. It plays a central role in the universe.
Ask someone to back up their nonsense and all you ever get is:
"I think"
The world does not work on people plucking nonsense out of thin air.
I mean you only, merely think something and then you have the nerve to try and correct me like you have some facts and reality to back you us. Laughable.
If brain scans and all the best analysis says one thing, there still must be areas of the brain that we still can't see where it is still working and recovering. Just think if they had switched off his life support. I can understand after a couple of years with no recovery but he was only unresponsive for just over a month.
typical religious nonsense desperately clutching at straws.
And whilst your at it, explain why their God allowed him to end up that way in the first place. - Yup! you only have answers to pin to a non-existent God when the outcome is good and have nothing to say when it isn't.
Where was this God when the other two dead?
THAT is how it is claptrap.
The fact of the matter is the familys religious beliefs allowed Langston to stay alive long enough to recover. That is a fact. Had they simply taken the objective advice of the doctors he would definitely be dead.
I'm not religious but I don't understand why you have such a problem with those who find comfort in it, especially in times of crisis. Hell even richard dawkins admitted he was compelled to turn to god when faced with the idea of his own mortality. Using this documentary to point score against other posters who share the beliefs of the family are frankly the actions of a dick.
Found this a very moving and interesting documentary. I think the guy who recovered against all the odds really changed the dynamic of the whole documentary.
If brain scans and all the best analysis says one thing, there still must be areas of the brain that we still can't see where it is still working and recovering. Just think if they had switched off his life support. I can understand after a couple of years with no recovery but he was only unresponsive for just over a month.
The problem is that we don't understand enough about how the brain works; scans can only provide so much information and doctors need to use their experience.
This situation must be incredibly tough on both the families and the medical staff. Families obviously want their loved one to recover and the doctors' experience is that in the overwhelming majority of these cases if the patient doesn't awaken within a week it doesn't happen. It COULD happen, but its very, very unlikely; the doctors have to walk to fine line between being honest and offering false hope.
I love watching Louis' documentaries. This one was so incredibly sad. I had to pause it a few times and go and do something else as it was just really getting to me and making me despair at the horror of diseases such as cancer. I cannot imagine what they were all going through. Being told of your own imminent immortality, when you have been trying to hold out hope of a recovery and are at that point too weak to fulfill many other 'wishes', must be just unthinkable.
I have never been in this situation with a close family member, but I can understand the "what if" scenario when faced with a decision, especially if the family has a final say (for example when the patient isn't conscious and therefore can't express any preference). In fact quite recently a close friend of the family was unexpectedly rushed in to hospital. She was conscious (and I went to see her and we chatted), then all of a sudden not, and wasn't able to breathe unassisted. Within a day of this her partner decided to turn off the equipment. I was gobsmacked that the decision was made so quickly and kept thinking 'but are we sure she can't recover? why not wait for a while?'. Obviously he was advised that she wouldn't make it in much more certain terms than those doctors on the documentary used (they did seem a little fluffy at times on the 'truth' but then that's another discussion altogether on ethics). I do sometimes wonder whether the NHS are less at liberty to really prolong these situations and costs/space is obviously a huge issue.
I imagine that that hope and thinking I had above then turns in to weeks or months. But seeing Langston, or hearing of others having similar miraculous recoveries, plants that seed of hope and potential. I suppose in some cases you'd want to give that 0.01% a chance, but as someone said it's then about how long you wait.
It was just such a devastating programme that really affected me. On a positive note it did make me want to live a full life as you just never know what might happen.
How amazing for Langston, I guess it just shows that there are still things we don't yet know and understand about the human brain. Hanging on for a couple of months to see if the person will respond/recover is one thing, but 3 years? I'm not sure how I could come to the decision to discontinue their care, but I don't know if I could stand to see someone I loved in that state for so long.
Very sad for Dante and Javier. I thought how hard it must have also been for the doctors to have to tell Dante there wasn't anything else they could do.
So difficult to say what we would do in these situations.
The fact of the matter is the familys religious beliefs allowed Langston to stay alive long enough to recover. That is a fact. Had they simply taken the objective advice of the doctors he would definitely be dead.
Well no they had a conversation about it to prepare the family for when that might happen the doctor suggested they come back to the subject in a month and he made his recovery after two weeks. So the families faith gave them strength over that two week period but didnt have any bearing on the outcome
If brain scans and all the best analysis says one thing, there still must be areas of the brain that we still can't see where it is still working and recovering. Just think if they had switched off his life support. I can understand after a couple of years with no recovery but he was only unresponsive for just over a month.
Good point. Langston was comatose for just 37 days, big difference to 37 months or 37 years. It was not a miracle that caused his recovery, it was the excellent medical care he received and the intensive rehabilitation program afterwards. Just consider the case of the recently deceased Israeli leader Ariel Sharon - 8 years in a coma and effectively plugged into a wall for all that time. No life, no awareness, nothing. Immoral in my opinion.
I look around me and I see beauty, and I think humanity is more than just random scum on the face of a random planet. We're more than that. There's something VERY special about life. It plays a central role in the universe.
I'm in my late 40s and I can honestly say that watching Langston's miraculous recovery on this documentary was the most amazing piece of television I've ever seen. I was so pleased for him and his family. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who was shocked, albeit pleasantly, when he recognized his sister, then asked who Louis was, I couldn't believe it - and then when we saw him walking, unaided, well!
So sad for the others who featured though, so terribly sad.
Louis Theroux must be the best documentary maker ever. He was made for the job!
Comments
I thought the point was that they can offer more treatment in the USA to people with such critical medical conditions. Javier (or is it Xavier) and Dante would have died sooner with less interventions. Is it ethical to prolong their lives with the same end result.
Maybe Langston wouldn't have survived either - I can't believe he's up and about! Whether you're religious or not his recovery can only be described as a miracle!
because I would have killed him. Had I had faith I might have saved him. Maybe I need more faith
I look around me and I see beauty, and I think humanity is more than just random scum on the face of a random planet. We're more than that. There's something VERY special about life. It plays a central role in the universe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tuned_universe
But in contrast, you had the guy who had been unconscious for 3 years, with no movement or spoken word.....begs the question, how long do you wait?
I too couldnt believe the way Langston walked into the ward....not sure I'd call it a miracle but am glad he recovered
People do turn to faith but ultimately faith has little to do with it. It's a bit like saying if you go to church every Sunday you'll never get cancer. Well, plenty of people do get cancer who go to church every Sunday. It's just life. Doctors can never be 100% sure about illness and they certainly can't be 100% sure about brain damage. They just have to make the best decision based on the limited information they have. It's never an exact science sadly. Some families may hold on for that 1% chance of recovery.. and perhaps the patient falls into the 1%.. but plenty will be in the 99% too. Religion doesn't decide that.
It can only be described as a miraculous recovery, you don't have to describe it as a miracle.
I would say it would be quite weird for your god to decide to save the life of the guy who took a drug overdose and decide to let the two guys who got cancer through no fault of their own aged 29 and 31 die in agony. Kind of a dick move by your deity there.
I checked the definition of the word miracle and it can also mean a marvel or wonder which no-one could deny it was.
I'm also wondering why you are saying "your god" and "your deity" to me when I haven't said what my belief is.
The most unlikely things are always possible. A 0.00001% chance of something is a chance. It was never impossible that he would recover, just so very very very unlikely.
The question is, how much faith do you place in such bad odds? I would personally say it's irrational to have much faith in something so unlikely. The way his family were talking so matter-of-factly about him recovering is no doubt a stance taken by people every day who are ultimately wrong.
It's quite possible for irrational or even bad decisions to actually result in a positive outcome. If I jump off a building, maybe I'll actually be caught by someone. And maybe that person just so happens to be the woman of my dreams and we go off, get married and have a wonderful life together. But ultimately, that wouldn't make my decision to jump off a building a good idea just because it worked out.
Ask someone to back up their nonsense and all you ever get is:
"I think"
The world does not work on people plucking nonsense out of thin air.
I mean you only, merely think something and then you have the nerve to try and correct me like you have some facts and reality to back you us. Laughable.
If brain scans and all the best analysis says one thing, there still must be areas of the brain that we still can't see where it is still working and recovering. Just think if they had switched off his life support. I can understand after a couple of years with no recovery but he was only unresponsive for just over a month.
The fact of the matter is the familys religious beliefs allowed Langston to stay alive long enough to recover. That is a fact. Had they simply taken the objective advice of the doctors he would definitely be dead.
I'm not religious but I don't understand why you have such a problem with those who find comfort in it, especially in times of crisis. Hell even richard dawkins admitted he was compelled to turn to god when faced with the idea of his own mortality. Using this documentary to point score against other posters who share the beliefs of the family are frankly the actions of a dick.
I may be wrong here but I thought it was blatantly obvious that she didn't mean to say MAKE me question my atheism. But MADE me question my atheism.
Which is completely different.
I don't think she was inviting dissenters! Rather that she was making a statement that she was reconsidering her atheism after watching this.
Very different comments. Which, again, I would have thought was obvious.
If I'm wrong, I apologise.
The problem is that we don't understand enough about how the brain works; scans can only provide so much information and doctors need to use their experience.
This situation must be incredibly tough on both the families and the medical staff. Families obviously want their loved one to recover and the doctors' experience is that in the overwhelming majority of these cases if the patient doesn't awaken within a week it doesn't happen. It COULD happen, but its very, very unlikely; the doctors have to walk to fine line between being honest and offering false hope.
Great to see Langston's partial recovery.
I have never been in this situation with a close family member, but I can understand the "what if" scenario when faced with a decision, especially if the family has a final say (for example when the patient isn't conscious and therefore can't express any preference). In fact quite recently a close friend of the family was unexpectedly rushed in to hospital. She was conscious (and I went to see her and we chatted), then all of a sudden not, and wasn't able to breathe unassisted. Within a day of this her partner decided to turn off the equipment. I was gobsmacked that the decision was made so quickly and kept thinking 'but are we sure she can't recover? why not wait for a while?'. Obviously he was advised that she wouldn't make it in much more certain terms than those doctors on the documentary used (they did seem a little fluffy at times on the 'truth' but then that's another discussion altogether on ethics). I do sometimes wonder whether the NHS are less at liberty to really prolong these situations and costs/space is obviously a huge issue.
I imagine that that hope and thinking I had above then turns in to weeks or months. But seeing Langston, or hearing of others having similar miraculous recoveries, plants that seed of hope and potential. I suppose in some cases you'd want to give that 0.01% a chance, but as someone said it's then about how long you wait.
It was just such a devastating programme that really affected me. On a positive note it did make me want to live a full life as you just never know what might happen.
Very sad for Dante and Javier. I thought how hard it must have also been for the doctors to have to tell Dante there wasn't anything else they could do.
So difficult to say what we would do in these situations.
Well no they had a conversation about it to prepare the family for when that might happen the doctor suggested they come back to the subject in a month and he made his recovery after two weeks. So the families faith gave them strength over that two week period but didnt have any bearing on the outcome
Good point. Langston was comatose for just 37 days, big difference to 37 months or 37 years. It was not a miracle that caused his recovery, it was the excellent medical care he received and the intensive rehabilitation program afterwards. Just consider the case of the recently deceased Israeli leader Ariel Sharon - 8 years in a coma and effectively plugged into a wall for all that time. No life, no awareness, nothing. Immoral in my opinion.
But you didnt answer the questions.
So sad for the others who featured though, so terribly sad.
Louis Theroux must be the best documentary maker ever. He was made for the job!