anyone claiming to know who United would or wouldn't accept (within reason) is a liar. they've not appointed a manager in nearly 30 years, we have no idea how they'd go about getting a new one.
despite what they've won recently, Chelsea aren't anywhere near the stature of Man U, so the question isn't even really relevant. there's absolutely no reason why managers that have been among the most successful and respected of their era should somehow be viewed as not being good enough for Chelsea.
Who was these most successful and respected managers?
Avam Grant?
RDM?
AVB?
The only ones you could put into to that level was Big Phil and Carlo, Now Phil was a mistake, He was not suited to English Football and think would have struggled with any team in this league. Carlo yes might you could say should have been given another season and I would have been very happy he was BUT could see problems coming a year or two down the line with him in charge. His lack of plan B (something we have at the moment) being the main one
I disagree about Carlo, i thought he was a good manager and by far and away the best weve had since Jose. Hes up there with the best in the world for me. Very unfairly sacked imo, especially after winning the double in his first season. Torres was forced on him and he was forced to play him.
Im very worried we wont make top 4 this season. Arsenal can focus solely on the league and Spurs are in good form. Its still in our hands but with Rafa in charge and our fatigue im very worried we will slip out of the top 4 now.
I disagree about Carlo, i thought he was a good manager and by far and away the best weve had since Jose. Hes up there with the best in the world for me. Very unfairly sacked imo, especially after winning the double in his first season. Torres was forced on him and he was forced to play him.
Yes I think Ancelotti is an excellent manager who was binned far too quickly. I don't recall there being the stories of behind the scenes unrest that have become prevalent with a few other Chelsea managers, though that's not to say it didn't happen.
I know he was succeeded by Ancelotti so it wasn't so bad, but it was a shame for Chelsea that they couldn't persuade Guus Hiddink to take the job on permanently.
To blame Rafa 100% is a bit churlish. After all, the "legend" who wrote Abramovich's team down for him last season hardly excelled in tne league
Being serious though - Torres is the biggest issue and I'm sure Benitez can't just drop him even if he wanted to. Yes, Rafa is cautious tactically but that wouldn't be an issue if an in-form striker was playing week-in, week-out and converting some of the chances Torres has spurned.
If the owner keeps tinkering and senior players continue to be egotistic then Chelsea will struggle to maintain consistency, irrespective of who's name is on the manager's door.
They're still a better bet to finish in the top four than Arsenal or Everton, however, so should be OK.
He the owner so anyone would be a yes men sooner or later.
My issue is with a lack of knowledge the yes men had.
People like Michael Emenalo
We use to have people like Peter Kenyon who might have been many many things but knew football. While Roman would give orders Kenyon could at least give another option. At the moment we have people who have little or no knowledge of the game at this level.
We can spend as much as we want on players but if we dont have a strong team working behind them we are working at a disadvantage
I agree almost entirely with what you say. But a muti-billionaire owner employs people to give him their expert opinions, if he chooses to ignore them that's his privilege.
Our current crew appear to just run around trying to please the big guy with the money. They remind me of the villain's henchmen in a Bond movie.
To be honest, even as a Chelsea supporter, I wouldn't be surprised if ambitious managers thought twice about joining us.
Mourinho probably wouldn't have stayed with us long anyway, I think it's in his nature to move on after a few seasons. But it still didn't make sense to make his position untenable.
Then there was Ancelotti, one of the most highly respected managers in Europe, won the Premiership and finished second, but shown the door.
It's ironical when you think about it, the first manager to bring Abramovich the Holy Grail of Champions League success was a guy he didn't want in the first place.
Yes I think Ancelotti is an excellent manager who was binned far too quickly. I don't recall there being the stories of behind the scenes unrest that have become prevalent with a few other Chelsea managers, though that's not to say it didn't happen.
I know he was succeeded by Ancelotti so it wasn't so bad, but it was a shame for Chelsea that they couldn't persuade Guus Hiddink to take the job on permanently.
Another own goal regarding a change of manager. The other obviously Jose.
Are Chelsea in a better position having dispensed of Roberto? They certainly appeared to be a more settled and unified team when he was there. It reminds me of when Wilkins was shown the door and the effect that had.
To blame Rafa 100% is a bit churlish. After all, the "legend" who wrote Abramovich's team down for him last season hardly excelled in tne league
To be fair to Di Matteo he was clearly concentrating on winning the cups last season, you only have to check some of the team selections for league games in the last few weeks to see that it wasn't his main priority. It was a gamble, but it paid off. Similar to when Rafa placed his eggs in the Champions League basket when you guys won it in 2005.
Another own goal regarding a change of manager. The other obviously Jose.
Are Chelsea in a better position having dispensed of Roberto? They certainly appeared to be a more settled and unified team when he was there. It reminds me of when Wilkins was shown the door and the effect that had.
Yep, the club sacking Wilkins seemed to completely derail Ancelotti's second season.
Who was these most successful and respected managers?
Avam Grant?
RDM?
AVB?
The only ones you could put into to that level was Big Phil and Carlo, Now Phil was a mistake, He was not suited to English Football and think would have struggled with any team in this league. Carlo yes might you could say should have been given another season and I would have been very happy he was BUT could see problems coming a year or two down the line with him in charge. His lack of plan B (something we have at the moment) being the main one
Do you see the pattern forming here?
Avram Grant - not good enough, employed by RA, then sacked
RDM - Not good enough, employed by RA, then sacked
AVB - Based on before and after Chelsea he was good enough, sacked by RA
Big Phil - Not suited, employed by RA and then sacked
Benitez - Not good
even Ancelotti who was deemed to be a good appointment and successful, was sacked by RA.
He is the common denominator in either appointing the wrong guy and having to sack him, or appointing the right guy and sacking him anyway.
Out of the guys who werent good enough, most people could see that it was a disaster waiting to happen in most cases.
As long as Romans money is paying the various pipers, he will be calling the tune and its difficult to ever see a genuine lasting base being built thats in proportion to the money spent since Mourinho left and id argue he wasted a pile of cash at the start.
To be fair to Di Matteo he was clearly concentrating on winning the cups last season, you only have to check some of the team selections for league games in the last few weeks to see that it wasn't his main priority. It was a gamble, but it paid off. Similar to when Rafa placed his eggs in the Champions League basket when you guys won it in 2005.
Rafa did likewise in his last season (resting/subbing players for CL) and cost us a top four finish. Which started the rot.
If RDM was focusing on the cups, it was highly short-sighted - in fact, a CL win was looking so unlikely at the semi final stage that he should have been sacked on the spot for even thinking about jeopardising the top four for a CL win.
I seem to recall the team that lost at Anfield was (a) very strong and (b) definitely cared. Chelsea's form was patchy all season from about game 5 onwards, so I'm not buying this "concentrating on the cups" lark for one minute
Rafa did likewise in his last season (resting/subbing players for CL) and cost us a top four finish. Which started the rot.
Yep. Rafa often did it as i recall. I remember him doing it in 2007 too before our semi games like he did in 2005. In some ways I think Mourinho maybe should have taken a bit of a gamble in 2005 by rotating before the semi seeing as we were pretty comfortably clear at the top of the league. At the same time though I can understand he wanted to keep the momentum going, and didn't want to take any chances in the league seeing as it was going to be our first title for half a century!
You could say that Rafa took an even bigger risk than Di Matteo when he prioritised the CL in 2005 seeing as at the time he couldn't have known for sure UEFA would allow Liverpool back in to defend it. Obviously neither he nor Di Matteo could have known their teams would go on and win it. When there is often such a fine line between success and failure it easily could have backfired for either.
I seem to recall the team that lost at Anfield was (a) very strong and (b) definitely cared. Chelsea's form was patchy all season from about game 5 onwards, so I'm not buying this "concentrating on the cups" lark for one minute
This was the team for the league match vs Liverpool:
Only Ivanovic, Terry and Ramires were first choice for us at that time and only those three started against you in the FA Cup Final. None of the others in that team started the CL and FA Cup semis or CL final either, with the exception of Bertrand in Munich due to Ramires and Meireles being suspended. By the time we played at Anfield in the league the FA Cup was already done and dusted and all three of Terry/Ivanovic/Ramires were suspended for the CL Final anyway.
If you still need convincing look up our line-ups for the FA Cup semi against Spurs, our two CL games against Barca and our league game against Arsenal in amongst that lot.
You can say Di Matteo was crazy for taking the risk, but it's clear where his priorities lay.
Avram Grant - not good enough, employed by RA, then sacked
RDM - Not good enough, employed by RA, then sacked
AVB - Based on before and after Chelsea he was good enough, sacked by RA
Big Phil - Not suited, employed by RA and then sacked
Benitez - Not good
even Ancelotti who was deemed to be a good appointment and successful, was sacked by RA.
He is the common denominator in either appointing the wrong guy and having to sack him, or appointing the right guy and sacking him anyway.
Out of the guys who werent good enough, most people could see that it was a disaster waiting to happen in most cases.
As long as Romans money is paying the various pipers, he will be calling the tune and its difficult to ever see a genuine lasting base being built thats in proportion to the money spent since Mourinho left and id argue he wasted a pile of cash at the start.
No i agree, My point was directed at someone saying it was the players getting "respected and sucessful" managers the sack. This "player power" has really only been a small part in one sacking of a manager and as much as i respect and like AVB i would not call him one of the most sucessful and respected managers of his era.
Its Roman who calls the shots and his mistakes (and taking notice of wrong people) that has caused the problems and not this "player power" that the soap and showbusiness newsreporters who are trying to pass themselfs off as sport reporters are bringing up because they are too lazy to do some work for a change
Avram Grant - not good enough, employed by RA, then sacked
RDM - Not good enough, employed by RA, then sacked
AVB - Based on before and after Chelsea he was good enough, sacked by RA
Big Phil - Not suited, employed by RA and then sacked
Benitez - Not good
even Ancelotti who was deemed to be a good appointment and successful, was sacked by RA.
He is the common denominator in either appointing the wrong guy and having to sack him, or appointing the right guy and sacking him anyway.
Out of the guys who werent good enough, most people could see that it was a disaster waiting to happen in most cases.
As long as Romans money is paying the various pipers, he will be calling the tune and its difficult to ever see a genuine lasting base being built thats in proportion to the money spent since Mourinho left and id argue he wasted a pile of cash at the start.
rafa not good? leave anti liverpool bias out of this
you know you ar ebeing disrespectful to the man, he may make mistakes but he also has won la liga,champions league and fa cup. this year he is in with shout of fa cup and europa league
you might not be his biggest fan and see his flaws, thats fine
rafa not good? leave anti liverpool bias out of this
you know you ar ebeing disrespectful to the man, he may make mistakes but he also has won la liga,champions league and fa cup. this year he is in with shout of fa cup and europa league
you might not be his biggest fan and see his flaws, thats fine
but rafa is good,at the very least
I think he meant not good enough for a top team in the league and something I would agree with.
rafa not good? leave anti liverpool bias out of this
you know you ar ebeing disrespectful to the man, he may make mistakes but he also has won la liga,champions league and fa cup. this year he is in with shout of fa cup and europa league
you might not be his biggest fan and see his flaws, thats fine
but rafa is good,at the very least
Anti-Liverpool Bias?
Well firstly im pretty sure he is managing Chelsea and hasnt had anything to do with Liverpool for a number of years. When he got the Chelsea job i said "thats that, we can forget about them in the League this season". Feel free to remind me how much "progress" they have made since he took over in that regard, especially with the "tactical" substitutions, the strange team selections and the ability to toss away games from a winning position.
Theres an increbile desire to find excuses for his inabilities. I was very keen for him to stay at Liverpool because I knew they wouldnt make the leap under him. Of course that wasnt his fault - that was all down to the owners, his hands were tied. Then he went to Inter, but that wasnt his fault, he hardly got a chance there and Mourinho left him with a mess. Then he was 3 years or whatever it was without a job but that wasnt his fault, the "right" job didnt come up and a man with his record can afford to be choosy. Then he takes the interim Chelsea job but that not his fault either, he is only "interim" manager, what can you do in those circumstances? The list of excuses is endless.
Even the Liverpool fan apologists for Rafa have had to pipe down recently because they are seeing it now from the other side of the fence as he does EXACTLY the same things that he did towards the end of his reign at Liverpool.
To my mind he is nowhere near good enough for Chelsea, i think he is doing his level best to prove me right and if you asked most Chelsea fans to look at his recent history in management and his time in post they would say he isnt the man for the job, interim or otherwise.
rafa not good? leave anti liverpool bias out of this
you know you ar ebeing disrespectful to the man, he may make mistakes but he also has won la liga,champions league and fa cup. this year he is in with shout of fa cup and europa league
you might not be his biggest fan and see his flaws, thats fine
but rafa is good,at the very least
If it's anti-Liverpool bias, why were a lot of United fans gutted when he left Anfield, and delighted he got the Chelsea job?
Personally, I'd say Man City won the league despite of him, he has at various points completely mismanaged Tevez and Balotelli during his time there. He's been completely inept each season in the champions league for instance. Man City shouldn't have failed so miserably in that competition with the money he spent. I believe his record at Inter in the champions league was also poor?
For me, Benitez being appointed at Chelsea ended any hopes of them actually winning the league this season. Give him £500m+ to spend and he'd probably do better in the premier league with Chelsea though, just as Mancini has done at Man City.
Personally, I'd say Man City won the league despite of him, he has at various points completely mismanaged Tevez and Balotelli during his time there. He's been completely inept each season in the champions league for instance. Man City shouldn't have failed in that competition with the money he spent.
why are you asking me? i have not called anyone a genius
if you are asking me if i would class mancini as "not good" then no...no i most certainly wouldnt.
and as i said i understand that cantona sees rafas flaws,i know he has them too
but he stated he is not a good manager
you dont win the trophies he has if you are not good.
its as simple as that
I like Rafa the man and the manager. I agree he's a good manager "with the right club". despite his more recent woes his overall record stands up to scrutiny with most others.
I think Rafa is generally disliked by most supporters outside of Liverpool. I wont go down the "they are scared of him route" though, thats just silly. I just genuinely dont think he got a good press from the press, didn't help himself sometimes with what he said and fans of other clubs were happy to take a dislike to him and mock him, which I think is a tad unfair, but hey ho!
I do wish him well wherever he ends up after Chelsea. I cant help but miss those CL nights he brought us.
why are you asking me? i have not called anyone a genius
if you are asking me if i would class mancini as "not good" then no...no i most certainly wouldnt.
I was applying the logic that if Benitez is a good manager because of his trophies he's won then Mancini must also be, but if you actually rate him as a good manager then I guess the point is invalid. As a Manchester United fan I was more than happy with Chelsea appointing Benitez, so far I've been proven correct. I'm also happy with Mancini at Man City, I hope neither gets sacked/not offered a new contract, but sadly that's unlikely.
Comments
Who was these most successful and respected managers?
Avam Grant?
RDM?
AVB?
The only ones you could put into to that level was Big Phil and Carlo, Now Phil was a mistake, He was not suited to English Football and think would have struggled with any team in this league. Carlo yes might you could say should have been given another season and I would have been very happy he was BUT could see problems coming a year or two down the line with him in charge. His lack of plan B (something we have at the moment) being the main one
Im very worried we wont make top 4 this season. Arsenal can focus solely on the league and Spurs are in good form. Its still in our hands but with Rafa in charge and our fatigue im very worried we will slip out of the top 4 now.
Yes I think Ancelotti is an excellent manager who was binned far too quickly. I don't recall there being the stories of behind the scenes unrest that have become prevalent with a few other Chelsea managers, though that's not to say it didn't happen.
I know he was succeeded by Ancelotti so it wasn't so bad, but it was a shame for Chelsea that they couldn't persuade Guus Hiddink to take the job on permanently.
Being serious though - Torres is the biggest issue and I'm sure Benitez can't just drop him even if he wanted to. Yes, Rafa is cautious tactically but that wouldn't be an issue if an in-form striker was playing week-in, week-out and converting some of the chances Torres has spurned.
If the owner keeps tinkering and senior players continue to be egotistic then Chelsea will struggle to maintain consistency, irrespective of who's name is on the manager's door.
They're still a better bet to finish in the top four than Arsenal or Everton, however, so should be OK.
I agree almost entirely with what you say. But a muti-billionaire owner employs people to give him their expert opinions, if he chooses to ignore them that's his privilege.
Our current crew appear to just run around trying to please the big guy with the money. They remind me of the villain's henchmen in a Bond movie.
To be honest, even as a Chelsea supporter, I wouldn't be surprised if ambitious managers thought twice about joining us.
Mourinho probably wouldn't have stayed with us long anyway, I think it's in his nature to move on after a few seasons. But it still didn't make sense to make his position untenable.
Then there was Ancelotti, one of the most highly respected managers in Europe, won the Premiership and finished second, but shown the door.
It's ironical when you think about it, the first manager to bring Abramovich the Holy Grail of Champions League success was a guy he didn't want in the first place.
Another own goal regarding a change of manager. The other obviously Jose.
Are Chelsea in a better position having dispensed of Roberto? They certainly appeared to be a more settled and unified team when he was there. It reminds me of when Wilkins was shown the door and the effect that had.
To be fair to Di Matteo he was clearly concentrating on winning the cups last season, you only have to check some of the team selections for league games in the last few weeks to see that it wasn't his main priority. It was a gamble, but it paid off. Similar to when Rafa placed his eggs in the Champions League basket when you guys won it in 2005.
Yep, the club sacking Wilkins seemed to completely derail Ancelotti's second season.
Do you see the pattern forming here?
Avram Grant - not good enough, employed by RA, then sacked
RDM - Not good enough, employed by RA, then sacked
AVB - Based on before and after Chelsea he was good enough, sacked by RA
Big Phil - Not suited, employed by RA and then sacked
Benitez - Not good
even Ancelotti who was deemed to be a good appointment and successful, was sacked by RA.
He is the common denominator in either appointing the wrong guy and having to sack him, or appointing the right guy and sacking him anyway.
Out of the guys who werent good enough, most people could see that it was a disaster waiting to happen in most cases.
As long as Romans money is paying the various pipers, he will be calling the tune and its difficult to ever see a genuine lasting base being built thats in proportion to the money spent since Mourinho left and id argue he wasted a pile of cash at the start.
Rafa did likewise in his last season (resting/subbing players for CL) and cost us a top four finish. Which started the rot.
If RDM was focusing on the cups, it was highly short-sighted - in fact, a CL win was looking so unlikely at the semi final stage that he should have been sacked on the spot for even thinking about jeopardising the top four for a CL win.
I seem to recall the team that lost at Anfield was (a) very strong and (b) definitely cared. Chelsea's form was patchy all season from about game 5 onwards, so I'm not buying this "concentrating on the cups" lark for one minute
Yep. Rafa often did it as i recall. I remember him doing it in 2007 too before our semi games like he did in 2005. In some ways I think Mourinho maybe should have taken a bit of a gamble in 2005 by rotating before the semi seeing as we were pretty comfortably clear at the top of the league. At the same time though I can understand he wanted to keep the momentum going, and didn't want to take any chances in the league seeing as it was going to be our first title for half a century!
You could say that Rafa took an even bigger risk than Di Matteo when he prioritised the CL in 2005 seeing as at the time he couldn't have known for sure UEFA would allow Liverpool back in to defend it. Obviously neither he nor Di Matteo could have known their teams would go on and win it. When there is often such a fine line between success and failure it easily could have backfired for either.
This was the team for the league match vs Liverpool:
Turnbull, Ferreira, Ivanovic, Terry, Bertrand, Essien, Romeu, Ramires, Sturridge (Lukaku - 68'), Malouda, Torres
Only Ivanovic, Terry and Ramires were first choice for us at that time and only those three started against you in the FA Cup Final. None of the others in that team started the CL and FA Cup semis or CL final either, with the exception of Bertrand in Munich due to Ramires and Meireles being suspended. By the time we played at Anfield in the league the FA Cup was already done and dusted and all three of Terry/Ivanovic/Ramires were suspended for the CL Final anyway.
If you still need convincing look up our line-ups for the FA Cup semi against Spurs, our two CL games against Barca and our league game against Arsenal in amongst that lot.
You can say Di Matteo was crazy for taking the risk, but it's clear where his priorities lay.
No i agree, My point was directed at someone saying it was the players getting "respected and sucessful" managers the sack. This "player power" has really only been a small part in one sacking of a manager and as much as i respect and like AVB i would not call him one of the most sucessful and respected managers of his era.
Its Roman who calls the shots and his mistakes (and taking notice of wrong people) that has caused the problems and not this "player power" that the soap and showbusiness newsreporters who are trying to pass themselfs off as sport reporters are bringing up because they are too lazy to do some work for a change
rafa not good? leave anti liverpool bias out of this
you know you ar ebeing disrespectful to the man, he may make mistakes but he also has won la liga,champions league and fa cup. this year he is in with shout of fa cup and europa league
you might not be his biggest fan and see his flaws, thats fine
but rafa is good,at the very least
I think he meant not good enough for a top team in the league and something I would agree with.
Anti-Liverpool Bias?
Well firstly im pretty sure he is managing Chelsea and hasnt had anything to do with Liverpool for a number of years. When he got the Chelsea job i said "thats that, we can forget about them in the League this season". Feel free to remind me how much "progress" they have made since he took over in that regard, especially with the "tactical" substitutions, the strange team selections and the ability to toss away games from a winning position.
Theres an increbile desire to find excuses for his inabilities. I was very keen for him to stay at Liverpool because I knew they wouldnt make the leap under him. Of course that wasnt his fault - that was all down to the owners, his hands were tied. Then he went to Inter, but that wasnt his fault, he hardly got a chance there and Mourinho left him with a mess. Then he was 3 years or whatever it was without a job but that wasnt his fault, the "right" job didnt come up and a man with his record can afford to be choosy. Then he takes the interim Chelsea job but that not his fault either, he is only "interim" manager, what can you do in those circumstances? The list of excuses is endless.
Even the Liverpool fan apologists for Rafa have had to pipe down recently because they are seeing it now from the other side of the fence as he does EXACTLY the same things that he did towards the end of his reign at Liverpool.
To my mind he is nowhere near good enough for Chelsea, i think he is doing his level best to prove me right and if you asked most Chelsea fans to look at his recent history in management and his time in post they would say he isnt the man for the job, interim or otherwise.
If it's anti-Liverpool bias, why were a lot of United fans gutted when he left Anfield, and delighted he got the Chelsea job?
im well aware of the rafa must stay stuff
and as i said i understand that cantona sees rafas flaws,i know he has them too
but he stated he is not a good manager
you dont win the trophies he has if you are not good.
its as simple as that
I was asking you, what do you think?
Personally, I'd say Man City won the league despite of him, he has at various points completely mismanaged Tevez and Balotelli during his time there. He's been completely inept each season in the champions league for instance. Man City shouldn't have failed so miserably in that competition with the money he spent. I believe his record at Inter in the champions league was also poor?
For me, Benitez being appointed at Chelsea ended any hopes of them actually winning the league this season. Give him £500m+ to spend and he'd probably do better in the premier league with Chelsea though, just as Mancini has done at Man City.
why are you asking me? i have not called anyone a genius
if you are asking me if i would class mancini as "not good" then no...no i most certainly wouldnt.
I like Rafa the man and the manager. I agree he's a good manager "with the right club". despite his more recent woes his overall record stands up to scrutiny with most others.
I think Rafa is generally disliked by most supporters outside of Liverpool. I wont go down the "they are scared of him route" though, thats just silly. I just genuinely dont think he got a good press from the press, didn't help himself sometimes with what he said and fans of other clubs were happy to take a dislike to him and mock him, which I think is a tad unfair, but hey ho!
I do wish him well wherever he ends up after Chelsea. I cant help but miss those CL nights he brought us.
I was applying the logic that if Benitez is a good manager because of his trophies he's won then Mancini must also be, but if you actually rate him as a good manager then I guess the point is invalid. As a Manchester United fan I was more than happy with Chelsea appointing Benitez, so far I've been proven correct. I'm also happy with Mancini at Man City, I hope neither gets sacked/not offered a new contract, but sadly that's unlikely.
They might get third.
In 2012, he is not a good manager, what he did in 2005 is negated by what has happened since.
Brian Clough was a genius of a manager but you wouldnt have given him a job in 1993 would you?