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Apple "Pinch to zoom" patent thrown out by US patent office.

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    whoever,heywhoever,hey Posts: 30,992
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    Roush wrote: »
    Common you say? Who else was using pinch to zoom in January 2007?

    It wan't an invention was it? Because it was already in the public domain.
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    RoushRoush Posts: 4,368
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    It wan't an invention was it? Because it was already in the public domain.

    Pretty sure dynamic web content already existed in 2001 too.
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    swordmanswordman Posts: 6,679
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    Although you have to be the inventor to apply for US patent slight draw back there for starters.

    USPTO:

    Who can apply for a patent?

    A patent may be applied for only in the name(s) of the actual inventor(s).
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    whoever,heywhoever,hey Posts: 30,992
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    kidspud wrote: »
    It is best to read the patent rather than the article.

    The abstract describes a dynamic company logo after a period of time. Sounds like google doodle to me. :confused:
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    alanwarwicalanwarwic Posts: 28,396
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    The simple fact is that many smaller companies find it difficult to survive litigation costs.
    ARM shares have dived after spending most of their money on lawyers.
    HTC profits are tiny with most of them spent on patent licensing fees they cannot afford to fight in court.

    The latest Apple Google court battle judge declared that litigation is more a business strategy than invention protection. It is quite hard to disagree.
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    swordmanswordman Posts: 6,679
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    Multi-touch has been around for years and pinch to zoom is a natural extension to that and a patent therefore has to be novel and non obvious.

    Don't forget the arrogance of apple in that they tried to patent the term "multi touch"
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    RoushRoush Posts: 4,368
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    swordman wrote: »
    Although you have to be the inventor to apply for US patent slight draw back there for starters.

    USPTO:

    Who can apply for a patent?

    A patent may be applied for only in the name(s) of the actual inventor(s).

    An invention built on an existing invention still counts as a new invention if it is novel and non-obvious.

    In just the same way, Google claims that its dynamic logo invention is a new invention even though the underlying invention - dynamic content - already existed.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 13,367
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    swordman wrote: »
    Multi-touch has been around for years and pinch to zoom is a natural extension to that and a patent therefore has to be novel and non obvious.

    Don't forget the arrogance of apple in that they tried to patent the term "multi touch"

    It's easy to say that it's a natural extension now that it's commonplace though.

    Anyway, every car had a heated rear windscreen and Ford still managed to patent a heated front windscreen. You couldn't get more of a natural extension of an existing technology than that.
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    swordmanswordman Posts: 6,679
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    Roush wrote: »
    An invention built on an existing invention still counts as a new invention if it is novel and non-obvious.

    In just the same way, Google claims that its dynamic logo invention is a new invention even though the underlying invention - dynamic content - already existed.

    Which it clearly was not, hence being kicked into touch
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    alan1302alan1302 Posts: 6,336
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    swordman wrote: »
    Which it clearly was not, hence being kicked into touch

    But you think it's ok for Google to get theirs granted?
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    swordmanswordman Posts: 6,679
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    If you read the thread you would know that.
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    alan1302alan1302 Posts: 6,336
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    swordman wrote: »
    If you read the thread you would know that.

    So in what way is Google's novel and non-obvious then?
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    RoushRoush Posts: 4,368
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    swordman wrote: »
    Which it clearly was not, hence being kicked into touch

    Except it hasn't been. It's still valid. It will only be invalidated if Apple doesn't challenge the ruling, which is extremely unlikely.

    Plus, if it's so obvious and non-novel, why was it not in mainstream use already before Apple used it in the iPhone?
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    kidspudkidspud Posts: 18,341
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    The fact is, and the point being made by the article relating to google doodles, is that there seems to be loads of silly patents issued nowadays.

    If the only way you can prove they are invalid is to go to court, then most companies don't stand a chance.
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    swordmanswordman Posts: 6,679
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    I would agree it seems a silly and pointless patent hence my point earlier about it being a non story certainly no a 'dangerous' patent as is being portrayed.
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    kidspudkidspud Posts: 18,341
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    swordman wrote: »
    I would agree it seems a silly and pointless patent hence my point earlier about it being a non story certainly no a 'dangerous' patent as is being portrayed.

    I wouldn't call it a non-story. It is a good example of how silly the system can be.
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    swordmanswordman Posts: 6,679
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    Roush wrote: »
    Except it hasn't been. It's still valid. It will only be invalidated if Apple doesn't challenge the ruling, which is extremely unlikely.

    Plus, if it's so obvious and non-novel, why was it not in mainstream use already before Apple used it in the iPhone?

    Thats not my understanding of it, it has been dismissed but apple have two months to lodge an appeal.

    The USPTO already gave warning of their intention to junk this last year this is now their final verdict, which apple can appeal.

    I think it logical that if a patent is found to be without merit such as this it is highly unlikely it would remain active in the meantime.

    Multi touch was already around at the time as I have said previously
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    swordmanswordman Posts: 6,679
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    kidspud wrote: »
    I wouldn't call it a non-story. It is a good example of how silly the system can be.

    Of course no further examples other than 'pinch to zoom' are needed to show that
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    barky99barky99 Posts: 3,921
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    kidspud wrote: »
    They are not patenting their own logo.
    they don't patent logos, they trademark them

    these software patents are slowly all becoming invalid, explains the rush of court cases before they can't patent things they shouldn't really have been able to in 1st place!
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    kidspudkidspud Posts: 18,341
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    swordman wrote: »
    Of course no further examples other than 'pinch to zoom' are needed to show that

    So your view is that pinch to zoom should not have been able to be patented by anyone (even the first person to come up with the idea) or is it just because it was apple?
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    kidspudkidspud Posts: 18,341
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    barky99 wrote: »
    they don't patent logos, they trademark them

    I know. It seems some didn't understand the patent.
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    RoushRoush Posts: 4,368
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    swordman wrote: »
    Thats not my understanding of it, it has been dismissed but apple have two months to lodge an appeal.

    The USPTO already gave warning of their intention to junk this last year this is now their final verdict, which apple can appeal.

    I think it logical that if a patent is found to be without merit such as this it is highly unlikely it would remain active in the meantime.

    Multi touch was already around at the time as I have said previously

    No, US patents (and most other countries' patents) remain valid until an absolutely final, non-appealable ruling is made. Potentially having a patent flip between valid and invalid and back to valid again is an undesirable situation.

    Instead, it is left to the courts to make an assessment on whether or not a pending invalidity proceeding is likely to ultimately lead to an invalidity ruling, in which case they can stay infringement cases pending the absolutely final invalidity outcome.

    In this case, Judge Koh had already indicated she is unlikely to grant a stay (which Samsung has requested) based on this ruling.

    And, as I previously pointed out, Apple have previously been successful in defending the key claims from another patent at issue in the current Samsung case when the patent was at the same re-examination stage as this one.
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    barky99barky99 Posts: 3,921
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    kidspud wrote: »
    So your view is that pinch to zoom should not have been able to be patented by anyone (even the first person to come up with the idea) or is it just because it was apple?
    shouldn't have got patent as when filed for by Apple their new, novel idea - an idea worked on from early 1980's wasn't new was it? and certainly not different enough to get protection
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    swordmanswordman Posts: 6,679
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    Again not my understanding of this, it will remain active as far as the court case goes but that is nothing to do with the USPTO decision.

    The bounce back (I assume) was slightly different.

    In any event this patent will be lost to apple whether it is now or not.
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    kidspudkidspud Posts: 18,341
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    barky99 wrote: »
    shouldn't have got patent as when filed for by Apple their new, novel idea - an idea worked on from early 1980's wasn't new was it? and certainly not different enough to get protection

    It doesn't need to be new. Just novel and non-obvious. I couldn't tell you what was around at the time.
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