Info needed from those in the know about council housing
Jules_Baxter
Posts: 1,382 Forum Member
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Hi All
My OH's Nana died this last Christmas and my OH's family want to do up her home and sell it as it is a big house and would make a cracking family home. Alas the fly in the ointment is one of my OH's Uncles who has never worked due to being classed as having some sort of mental disability, he has always lived in one of the upstairs bedrooms.
My OH's Mum and her other siblings are pushing him to approach the council to get a new home for himself as come winter time he will not be able to afford to heat the home on benefits as it is a 3 story house! He is not very good at keeping himself or the house clean and he will just let it go to wrack and ruin.
Apparently he has been on the council housing list for some years but the thing is he is a single man, the house he is in has no mortgage left on it to pay so I don't think he will get a property as quick as my OH's Mum and her siblings think he will, she wants him to have a property with a garden but like we said to her yesterday that is unlikely to happen as he lives in a small town in Lincolnshire which will have limited housing and again being a single man he is more likely to be offered a one bedroom property what with the bedroom tax thing - how many one bedroom properties have gardens! As me and the OH have not had any dealings personally with council homes I just wondered what other people thought about it?
Also he is very reluctant to move out which doesn't help!!!
My OH's Nana died this last Christmas and my OH's family want to do up her home and sell it as it is a big house and would make a cracking family home. Alas the fly in the ointment is one of my OH's Uncles who has never worked due to being classed as having some sort of mental disability, he has always lived in one of the upstairs bedrooms.
My OH's Mum and her other siblings are pushing him to approach the council to get a new home for himself as come winter time he will not be able to afford to heat the home on benefits as it is a 3 story house! He is not very good at keeping himself or the house clean and he will just let it go to wrack and ruin.
Apparently he has been on the council housing list for some years but the thing is he is a single man, the house he is in has no mortgage left on it to pay so I don't think he will get a property as quick as my OH's Mum and her siblings think he will, she wants him to have a property with a garden but like we said to her yesterday that is unlikely to happen as he lives in a small town in Lincolnshire which will have limited housing and again being a single man he is more likely to be offered a one bedroom property what with the bedroom tax thing - how many one bedroom properties have gardens! As me and the OH have not had any dealings personally with council homes I just wondered what other people thought about it?
Also he is very reluctant to move out which doesn't help!!!
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A single man will almost never get a council place. If he doesnt own the house and it is sold, surely the best thing would be to buy him a flat with the proceeds?
Edit poor chap loses his mother then his family want him out of his home
if it has been left equally between the siblings, then the money from the sale (if he agrees to a sale) would go equally to all the siblings and he may be able to therefore to buy a small flat for himself which would suit his needs.
He may not be a priority for council housing therefore for this very reason although in many boroughs ability to buy your own home is not necessarily a reason why you dont meet the criteria for housing. Most boroughs are based on a needs based criteria, is he homeless (no), is he overcrowded (no), does he have a disability and is vulnerable (yes),,, but of course he may be able to rent privately too. The council now does not have a duty to provide housing, it has a duty to offer assistance and advice.
This is a difficult situation for him to be in as if he lives in the property which is owned by the siblings (and him), then strictly speaking they can charge him rent on their portion. Strictly speaking if he didnt pay that they could start to evict but that would get messy.
He would not be seen as in need for housing whilst he is still living in a house owned by him!
The best bet is to sell it and with his portion of the money buy his own house but sounds like he would need support with that.
If he was not left the house then the siblings could just evict him but how that would go down as a family I dont know.
Maybe going to the Gp for supporting info might help with the council
Is he on sickness benefit, or JSA?
I sort of agree but unfortunately its not as simple as that, even if they wanted to do this and not charge him any rent, they would still become by default landlords under the law and may not want this responsibility. They would have to ensure that the house is legally fit for occupation, do the gas safety checks, declare the house as an asset for capital gains tax purposes, put the expenses of their maintenance on tax returns etc etc etc.
Although they are very clearly making these decisions to get him out based on their own needs (money), it would appear that the brother may not be able to manage in a large property on his own anyway and this might be difficult.
It is upsetting isnt it? it sounds as if he needs support, not instability, i they do all own the house then the least they can do is sell the home and buy him a place before the vultures descend
they could keep the place in good order while he`s living there and sell it when he`s dead or CHOSEN to move out himself.
Anyone offering to pay the taxes on the inheritance ? because it isn't always so easy to raise thousands to keep a home when a person dies. It isn't about vultures many times it's people desperate not to lose their own homes trying to pay the inheritance tax.
as for the inheritance tax, they should all be thankful they are lucky enough to be receiving a share of the property and if, and thats if, they have to pay any inheritance tax be grateful for for they are left with i know i would be.
Not quite so easy when faced with the bill though I know when we had it happen back in the 90s we had to borrow to pay it and took us nearly 10 years to clear the debt my BIL lost his home as he had to sell up to pay his share.
FIL stayed in the home as had been arranged but it nearly wiped some of us out.
And yes it will be nice to get the inheritance soon but is it nearly as good as it was worrying at the time we had to pay out ? not sure it is TBH
Paying the bills is tough when you're on benefits. Especially on such a big place.
I'd go with the idea of buying a small flat for him with what is made from the sale of the house.
Inheritance tax is paid from the estate, not by the beneficiaries. Admittedly there's a problem if the IHT exceeds the value of the other assets apart from the house, but I'd have thought that was rare, especially outside London.
In any event, the OP hasn't said that IHT forms any part of the problem.
As for the handicaps of being a landlord, they could all gift him their shares of the property. Or do what I believe is called a "deed of variation", to avoid any question of capital gains tax.
Assuming that your OH's nan left the house in equal shares to the siblings this does create problems and it's just a question of how you want to deal with it.
Lets look at the facts - the OP has said that uncle couldn't afford to live in the house or maintain it himself. Also there are legal and tax issues of letting him stay in house by himself. Now technically the rest of the family could give up all their inheritance and pay to maintain the family home for him - but that doesn't seem like a very reasonable solution to me.
Alternatively the family could agree to sell the house and then give him enough of the proceeds to buy him a much smaller property that he would be able to look after himself. The remainder of the sale price could then be split amongst the other siblings. I know that is what my nan wants to happen with my uncle and in many ways it's the best solution for him - though it would mean people agreeing to give up a large sum of money each.
If you did just force through the sale of the house then the uncle would be able to rent somewhere himself with the proceeds, and then when they run out either claim housing benefit or put into council housing. It doesn't matter if he's a single man, any disabled person with no means of support is going to be housed by the council. I personally don't see a big moral issue here - as long as the siblings are willing to help him in his new place and don't just see the inheritance as a windfall.
- as long as the siblings are willing to help him in his new place and don't just see the inheritance as a windfall.
The family are not vultures, it was specified in their Mother's will that the house be sold and the proceeeds split between the siblings. Also their late father put a lot of effort into doing that house up and they don't want to see his hard work undone.
The Uncle is only very mildly mentally disabled, we don't know the ins and outs of why he has never worked as he seems capable especially as he goes on £9.50 hols on his own. He can't be on JSA as he has never sought work.
He is capable of cleaning the house and washing himself but doesn't bother for reasons we can't figure but it is no good him having an old 3 storey house with about 5 bedrooms if he isn't that willing to take care of it. he also cannot afford to heat it with his benefit money, he keeps the heating turned off which is going to be a problem once winter rocks round again as it can be mild one winter and several foot of snow for months another!
I do agree with those that said the family will probably have to help him rent a place privately as I don't think he stands much chance of council house to be honest especially one with a garden!
Unfortunately, that's the way it is when a property has a high value and forms the bulk of the estate. When the dust has settled, the beneficiaries are going to share either £325,000 or £650,000 plus 60% of the balance of the estate. So it's difficult to shed tears.
Or to understand why both your own home and the house in the estate were at risk.
However, it seems that's not part of the OP's problem.
OP
It would have been helpful if you had said that in the opening post not least as it may have stopped some people making unhelpful and wrong judgemental comments.
Anyway as you have now said that there is a will and the grandmother said what should be done ie sell the house then that is what the executor has to do. The uncle can apply to the council regarding council housing as he will be made homeless when the house is sold. They are likely to give him some help, probably a house share of a bedsit. However once he gets his inheritance he is likely to have too much money to any longer get housing benefit and will have to pay his own way. If there is concern that the uncle cannot manage the inheritance then the executor could go to the court of protection - although it does not seem from what you say that he is incapable enough to warrant this
I totally forgot to mention it in the original post - but then again I was naively only wanting to know about the kind of council housing a single man could get as opposed to posting so people could morally judge me and my family-in-law!!
You raise a good point about his share of the house sale potentially affecting his benefits! The OH and I shall sit safely back and watch with interest what happens on this one!!
I would contact the local councils housing department and explain the situation to them, and make sure you mention that he is vulnerable. And keep pushing the council as they will try to wriggle out of things if they think they can.
I have been pretty shocked by some of the nasty comments this thread attracted - some seriously horrible allegations made by people who do not know the family, the situation or the uncle! The uncle does not like spending his own money which again makes it very difficult for him to run a house, he was that mortified at the idea of having to suddenly pay for a tv licence himself that he has told the family he won't watch telly!
They need to move him out of that house for many practical reasons - as for the stupid suggestion by the strange Annette Kurten (oh and judging by her location of "dole office" she is a freeloader anyway hence why she has irrational opinions) of sell it when he is dead - many of them may have passed on themselves by that time and any siblings still around will be very elderly by then and not in a state to gut and refurbish a house that has rotted away for maybe 40 years plus! Are they all supposed to take over the heating bills for it for decades then too!
Thank you to those that posted sensible, supportive and informative posts though!