Davos helped Gendry escape in the knowledge he would probably die for it, no way would he leave if he had any suspicion that Shireen would burn.
He probably suspected that Melisandre was in Stannis' ear about it, which is why he offered to take Shireen with him, but Davos' only fault is that he thinks more highly of Stannis than he should do, and he probably thought Stannis wouldn't allow it.
I agree.
He was worried for her safety, certainly, but naively thought Stannis would never go through with it (didn't we all ).
And he's not exactly in a position to do anything about it. How could he snatch Shireen away from her parents, and his King, without any proof that they intended to harm her?
Where would he go anyway? How would he explain it to Shireen herself?
He'd be hunted down and executed by Stannis's men in no time and Shireen would be back at square one. And he may well have harmed Stannis's war effort even further in the process, with no actual proof that Shireen was ever in any danger to begin with.
There was nothing he could really do. But his gift for her and his heartfelt goodbye probably carried more meaning, just in case it was the last time he saw her.
Davos helped Gendry escape in the knowledge he would probably die for it, no way would he leave if he had any suspicion that Shireen would burn.
He probably suspected that Melisandre was in Stannis' ear about it, which is why he offered to take Shireen with him, but Davos' only fault is that he thinks more highly of Stannis than he should do, and he probably thought Stannis wouldn't allow it.
Davos knows exactly the type of man Stannis has become though, he's the type of man who'd kill his own brother and would have killed his nephew given the chance. Davos knew Shireen wasn't travelling with them just to see the sights, Davos knew deep down she was there to be sacrificed at some point.
Davos knows exactly the type of man Stannis has become though, he's the type of man who'd kill his own brother and would have killed his nephew given the chance. Davos knew Shireen wasn't travelling with them just to see the sights, Davos knew deep down she was there to be sacrificed at some point.
Killing his brother in a war situation and attempting to kill his nephew who he didn't even know isn't the same as killing his daughter and heir who he's been shown to care about. No one knew how far gone Stannis has become, not even his fanatical wife.
There's a quote from the books along the lines of "he'll break before he bends". I suppose this was him breaking.
Killing his brother in a war situation and attempting to kill his nephew who he didn't even know isn't the same as killing his daughter and heir who he's been shown to care about. No one knew how far gone Stannis has become, not even his fanatical wife.
There's a quote from the books along the lines of "he'll break before he bends". I suppose this was him breaking.
Having his daughter brought along on a campaign of war, along with his wife who's clearly barking mad, add a priestess who likes burning people alive any and every chance she gets, these were surely big big warning signs.
No way would Davos have left Shireen to die, I agree he thought Stannis would never kill her. Bringing his wife and daughter with him was surely to make sure they were never taken hostage if his homeland was attacked while he waged war. Selyse isn't exactly the kind of wife to hold a castle for her husband.
Stannis is now a kinslayer of the worst kind. Pray Davos or Brienne will kill him.
I haven't watched this episode yet, but I saw a YouTube clip of Danny on the back of the Dragon and apart from a few seconds in flight where we just see her on it's back, where it looked a little bit green screen, it was quite realistic.
Nothing really cheesy or fairy tale about it I thought.
ItJustMyOpinion why would you spoil it for yourself? even if you've read the books, i have not, i don't understand why you'd read about it or view clips of it before watching the whole show?
ItJustMyOpinion why would you spoil it for yourself? even if you've read the books, i have not, i don't understand why you'd read about it or view clips of it before watching the whole show?
I've watched the clip with Shireen before seeing the show later because I couldn't believe it had happened. It's probably the first time I have done that though, I can usually hang on.
I've watched the clip with Shireen before seeing the show later because I couldn't believe it had happened. It's probably the first time I have done that though, I can usually hang on.
I still don't get it. I find it easy to avoid spoilers and wouldn't want any. It ruins the enjoyment/surprise of watching it how it was intended!
ItJustMyOpinion why would you spoil it for yourself? even if you've read the books, i have not, i don't understand why you'd read about it or view clips of it before watching the whole show?
I watch it on Saturday night/Sunday morning with a glass of wine, but unfortunately it is shown on Monday night. I therefore have a whole week to wait and although sometimes I can avoid the spoilers, I was starting to worry this series might be rubbish, so I was keen to read what people though about this episode.
When people said the CGI is terrible I had to just see if that was the case. I only watched the flight bit not the rest.
As you say I have read the books anyway so knew mostly what was going to happen. I still enjoy watching anyway.
Stannis has surpassed the Night King as the villain. At least the Night King saved Craster's sons from freezing to death and made them into supernatrual warriors. Stannis burnt his own daughter for the sake of the throne. There's nothing he won't do now.
In many ways (OK, one big way), Stannis is the most hateful character in the show. He would literally do anything to claim power, including killing his own heir. I don't think *even* Ramsay Bolton would do that. Certainly not the Lannisters, who were all about "the family".
The problem with Stannis - and he knows it - is that he cannnot rule as he has no charisma, no personality. He can't rally people to his cause, so he has to "cheat" with magic.
He's killed his brother *and* his own daughter. If he ever gets on the throne, there'll be no one left to enjoy it with him. He truly is the mad king.
In many ways (OK, one big way), Stannis is the most hateful character in the show. He would literally do anything to claim power, including killing his own heir. I don't think *even* Ramsay Bolton would do that. Certainly not the Lannisters, who were all about "the family".
The problem with Stannis - and he knows it - is that he cannnot rule as he has no charisma, no personality. He can't rally people to his cause, so he has to "cheat" with magic.
He's killed his brother *and* his own daughter. If he ever gets on the throne, there'll be no one left to enjoy it with him. He truly is the mad king.
Stannis justified killing Renly because Renly usurped him, which technically is true. A crown doesn't pass to a younger brother when there is an older one.
He was going to harm Gendry yes but did nothing to punish Davos when he freed him.
I'm never going to try and defend what he did to Shireen and totally hate him now but do not see him as a real baddie before as some do.
Stannis justified killing Renly because Renly usurped him, which technically is true. A crown doesn't pass to a younger brother when there is an older one.
He was going to harm Gendry yes but did nothing to punish Davos when he freed him.
I'm never going to try and defend what he did to Shireen and totally hate him now but do not see him as a real baddie before as some do.
For me, until now Stannis in the show was more like king material and more honourable than Stannis of the books. What he did to Shireen is not in keeping with his character on the show.
He revealed a fair bit of the bitterness, sense of entitlement and ambition in the early seasons. This is just those traits breaking through the sheen of honour and duty Stannis likes to put on. Stannis, Melisandre and Selyse have always had a bit of a Macbeth and Lady Macbeth thing going on. Shireen is Stannis' Duncan.
He’s here in double trust:
First, as I am his kinsman and his subject,
Strong both against the deed; then, as his host,
Who should against his murderer shut the door,
Not bear the knife myself. Besides, this Duncan
Hath borne his faculties so meek, hath been
So clear in his great office, that his virtues
Will plead like angels, trumpet-tongued, against
The deep damnation of his taking-off;
And pity, like a naked newborn babe,
Striding the blast, or heaven’s cherubim, horsed
Upon the sightless couriers of the air,
Shall blow the horrid deed in every eye,
That tears shall drown the wind. I have no spur
To prick the sides of my intent, but only
Vaulting ambition, which o'erleaps itself
And falls on th' other.
Macbeth - Act 1, Scene 7
But wow, that scene in the arena was just astounding. Even my goosebumps had goosebumps. I don't know why people say Emilia Clarke is a bad actress - she played it perfectly.
I suspect Davos may be somewhat heartbroken at Shireen's fate when he learns it. I can see him joining the Night's Watch, perhaps? The show seems to be converging everyone back to the same locations it started in (King's Landing, The Wall and Winterfell...mostly) and Davos may find himself suited to The Wall - out of the reach of the law for his previous crimes (including if Stannis were to ever take the Throne) and affiliated with Jon Snow - who is going to need all the help he can get.
The fate of Stannis could be an interesting one. If he wasn't unpopular already, he's going to be even less so now. And yet he's got access to dragonglass back on Dragonstone, which means he could prove to be a valuable ally - or it could mean a siege on Dragonstone, which at the moment I can't see happening as the only ones who seem to care about that problem are at The Wall, which needs everyone there. Of course if Stannis were wiped out then everything would become easier on that front, but I suspect Melisandre's grander design is starting to take shape now.
Daenerys seriously needs to both train her dragons (get Hiccup!) and pick up some fighting skills or something. I think she has the potential to build a "small council" of her own in Mereen out of the support she has there - Daario, Misandrei, Tyrion, Jorah, Varys if he ever shows up... there's a whole faction of support there for her now, which in turn would give her the chance to get out a little bit more - train, prepare for the coming battle. And then make advances at the end of Season 6 for King's Landing. I don't know (or care?) what's happened to Greyworm, but it seems forces have been eating away at Daeny's Unsullied army for a while now... how much of an army does she even have left?
A lot has happened recently and people's preferred outcomes seem to be changing as it does. I can see Jon Snow becoming Warden of the North - he'll be named Stark by someone or other in power, but has no desire to rule himself. If not him, then Bran. It'll come down to one or the other, with the other one probably dying. Either of them could have something to do with the dragons too - Bran with his warging, and Jon with the mystery identity of his mother which could very well mean he has Targaryen blood. If Daenerys were to rule, I could see her instating Jon or Bran as Warden of the North after the final battle.
I can see Daenerys going for the throne, though the Lannister's will have a last bid at it - if Tommen is still King in the final battle, I can't see Daenerys bringing him down - both as he extremely young, and because he's also quite innocent. Whether Margaery is also still in the picture that far down the line remains to be seen (or indeed Cersei), but I could see Daenerys offering to share her Throne with Tommen - uniting the two houses essentially. This would also be a gesture of goodwill for the support Tyrion gives Daenerys over time in his advisory position.
The only warning light going off right now, and something of a Chekhov's Gun, is Myrcella. They've gone to a lot of effort to bring her back, and I suspect this may be because of plot reasons. If she were to assume the throne after Tommen (were something to happen to him), it'd make Daenerys' moral dilemma of reaching the throne even more difficult... she could share the throne with Tommen, but they can't have two Queen's. Myrcella already has a suitor, uniting houses on both sides of the Narrow Sea - any attempt from Daenerys to dethrone them would make her very unpopular.
The only character I can't really tell where they're going with is Arya. She's not trying to get back home, she's not in a quest for the throne, she's not linked to the fight against the White Walkers, nor is she involved with the dragons. It's really hard to see where she's going to fit in with all of this.
It was mentioned that their numbers are low, but as low as three? Seems troublesome to believe.
That said, this is Thrones. Dragons all died out, then three Egg's appeared. Whilst I doubt Giants hatch, maybe someone will find a Giant creche somewhere in the North.
I thought I'd mentioned this after someone brought it up after Ep 8 (may have been a different thread/forum)
A number of Giants can be seen outside the gate at Hardhome.
As none of them make it back inside the gate we can assume that they were killed and later came back as Wights.
So we'll be seeing some undead Giants at some point in the future.
In the books he's the actually the leader of the Sons of the Harpy and tries to have Dany murdered by poisoning the food at the games. Instead it's eaten by some other guy who dies and Hizdar is found out.
I suspect here that he's dead though and they've just decided not to include that part of the plot. The Sons of the Harpy are likely over (the ones who weren't crispy fried will probably think twice about attacking her now!)
Not totally correct.
The identity of the Harpy hasn't been revealed in the books and Strong Belwas is still alive.
Jesus. This show just loves to raise your expectations and then bring them crushing down. Just when I was starting to warm to Stannis as a decent bloke and a good dad he does that! Now as much as I hate Ramsay Bolton I hope he gives Stannis and Melisandre a good flaying.
And just in case we don't completely hate Meryn Trant enough we get to see that he's a paedo as well. A girl has a job to do...
And as for events in Mereen, well, it nearly brought a tear to my eye to see Drogon swoop in and turn the Harpies to toast. And I thought for one horrible minute that Ser Friendzone was going to get a pike through his back when he defeated the last guy in the pits. Never tun your back on an opponent unless you're certain he's dead.
And as for Dorne...meh. A shame because I really like Alexander Siddig and Indira Varma. They're good actors but rather wasted in this.
The identity of the Harpy hasn't been revealed in the books and Strong Belwas is still alive.
True. I forgot that he didn't actually die. IIRC they strongly suspect it's Hizdar but nothing's been confirmed yet. It's been a while since I read it tbh
And I thought for one horrible minute that Ser Friendzone was going to get a pike through his back when he defeated the last guy in the pits. Never tun your back on an opponent unless you're certain he's dead.
Speaking of that, wasn't the fella who had him bang to rights a Braavosi water dancer? Ahhh Syrio, if only you had a real sword.
I've officialy switched sides from Stannis to Selsye!
Oh come on. Selyse is a mentalist, terrible wife and generally cold unlikeable woman. Stannis may have burned his daughter alive, but he thought he was doing the right thing. He has strength of character.
I suspect Davos may be somewhat heartbroken at Shireen's fate when he learns it. I can see him joining the Night's Watch, perhaps? The show seems to be converging everyone back to the same locations it started in (King's Landing, The Wall and Winterfell...mostly) and Davos may find himself suited to The Wall - out of the reach of the law for his previous crimes (including if Stannis were to ever take the Throne) and affiliated with Jon Snow - who is going to need all the help he can get.
Conjecture somewhat based on the books:
I reckon in the show Davos could find out from Sam that Rickon is still alive, and he will go to find him.
Daenerys seriously needs to both train her dragons (get Hiccup!) and pick up some fighting skills or something. I think she has the potential to build a "small council" of her own in Mereen out of the support she has there - Daario, Misandrei, Tyrion, Jorah, Varys if he ever shows up... there's a whole faction of support there for her now, which in turn would give her the chance to get out a little bit more - train, prepare for the coming battle. And then make advances at the end of Season 6 for King's Landing. I don't know (or care?) what's happened to Greyworm, but it seems forces have been eating away at Daeny's Unsullied army for a while now... how much of an army does she even have left?
A lot has happened recently and people's preferred outcomes seem to be changing as it does. I can see Jon Snow becoming Warden of the North - he'll be named Stark by someone or other in power, but has no desire to rule himself. If not him, then Bran. It'll come down to one or the other, with the other one probably dying. Either of them could have something to do with the dragons too - Bran with his warging, and Jon with the mystery identity of his mother which could very well mean he has Targaryen blood. If Daenerys were to rule, I could see her instating Jon or Bran as Warden of the North after the final battle.
I can see Daenerys going for the throne, though the Lannister's will have a last bid at it - if Tommen is still King in the final battle, I can't see Daenerys bringing him down - both as he extremely young, and because he's also quite innocent. Whether Margaery is also still in the picture that far down the line remains to be seen (or indeed Cersei), but I could see Daenerys offering to share her Throne with Tommen - uniting the two houses essentially. This would also be a gesture of goodwill for the support Tyrion gives Daenerys over time in his advisory position.
The only warning light going off right now, and something of a Chekhov's Gun, is Myrcella. They've gone to a lot of effort to bring her back, and I suspect this may be because of plot reasons. If she were to assume the throne after Tommen (were something to happen to him), it'd make Daenerys' moral dilemma of reaching the throne even more difficult... she could share the throne with Tommen, but they can't have two Queen's. Myrcella already has a suitor, uniting houses on both sides of the Narrow Sea - any attempt from Daenerys to dethrone them would make her very unpopular.
Hmm... I think it's more complicated than you realise. There's a lot more going on, and character motivations are not what they may seem.
Ironically for Stannis I see the burning of his daughter as proof he is unfit to be King. If you could be swayed so easily to murder your own child then you are mentally to weak to rule a Country.
The moment Stannis said he want Davos to run an errand I knew Shireen's death was on the cards. It practically screamed it. Davos is the Jiminey Cricket to Stannis's Pinnochio. (And Melisandre is the one pulling the strings.)
Stannis knew he would probably not go through with it or be stopped if Davos was there. Sadly I think Davos knew on some level what was going to happen but I guess his blind loyalty of Stannis tempered those doubts. I don't see Davos and Stannis ever getting back on good terms again.
It's also funny. When Dany and the others were surrounded I asked for a Drogon rescue (I didn't know any spoilres on the episode) and lo and behold the King makes an entrance. The cgi during the flight scene was a tad obvious. But the look on Tyrion's face said it all.
Comments
I agree.
He was worried for her safety, certainly, but naively thought Stannis would never go through with it (didn't we all
And he's not exactly in a position to do anything about it. How could he snatch Shireen away from her parents, and his King, without any proof that they intended to harm her?
Where would he go anyway? How would he explain it to Shireen herself?
He'd be hunted down and executed by Stannis's men in no time and Shireen would be back at square one. And he may well have harmed Stannis's war effort even further in the process, with no actual proof that Shireen was ever in any danger to begin with.
There was nothing he could really do. But his gift for her and his heartfelt goodbye probably carried more meaning, just in case it was the last time he saw her.
Davos knows exactly the type of man Stannis has become though, he's the type of man who'd kill his own brother and would have killed his nephew given the chance. Davos knew Shireen wasn't travelling with them just to see the sights, Davos knew deep down she was there to be sacrificed at some point.
Killing his brother in a war situation and attempting to kill his nephew who he didn't even know isn't the same as killing his daughter and heir who he's been shown to care about. No one knew how far gone Stannis has become, not even his fanatical wife.
There's a quote from the books along the lines of "he'll break before he bends". I suppose this was him breaking.
Having his daughter brought along on a campaign of war, along with his wife who's clearly barking mad, add a priestess who likes burning people alive any and every chance she gets, these were surely big big warning signs.
Stannis is now a kinslayer of the worst kind. Pray Davos or Brienne will kill him.
Nothing really cheesy or fairy tale about it I thought.
I've watched the clip with Shireen before seeing the show later because I couldn't believe it had happened. It's probably the first time I have done that though, I can usually hang on.
I still don't get it. I find it easy to avoid spoilers and wouldn't want any. It ruins the enjoyment/surprise of watching it how it was intended!
I watch it on Saturday night/Sunday morning with a glass of wine, but unfortunately it is shown on Monday night. I therefore have a whole week to wait and although sometimes I can avoid the spoilers, I was starting to worry this series might be rubbish, so I was keen to read what people though about this episode.
When people said the CGI is terrible I had to just see if that was the case. I only watched the flight bit not the rest.
As you say I have read the books anyway so knew mostly what was going to happen. I still enjoy watching anyway.
In many ways (OK, one big way), Stannis is the most hateful character in the show. He would literally do anything to claim power, including killing his own heir. I don't think *even* Ramsay Bolton would do that. Certainly not the Lannisters, who were all about "the family".
The problem with Stannis - and he knows it - is that he cannnot rule as he has no charisma, no personality. He can't rally people to his cause, so he has to "cheat" with magic.
He's killed his brother *and* his own daughter. If he ever gets on the throne, there'll be no one left to enjoy it with him. He truly is the mad king.
BIB: excluding Tyrion of course
He was going to harm Gendry yes but did nothing to punish Davos when he freed him.
I'm never going to try and defend what he did to Shireen and totally hate him now but do not see him as a real baddie before as some do.
For me, until now Stannis in the show was more like king material and more honourable than Stannis of the books. What he did to Shireen is not in keeping with his character on the show.
But wow, that scene in the arena was just astounding. Even my goosebumps had goosebumps. I don't know why people say Emilia Clarke is a bad actress - she played it perfectly.
The fate of Stannis could be an interesting one. If he wasn't unpopular already, he's going to be even less so now. And yet he's got access to dragonglass back on Dragonstone, which means he could prove to be a valuable ally - or it could mean a siege on Dragonstone, which at the moment I can't see happening as the only ones who seem to care about that problem are at The Wall, which needs everyone there. Of course if Stannis were wiped out then everything would become easier on that front, but I suspect Melisandre's grander design is starting to take shape now.
Daenerys seriously needs to both train her dragons (get Hiccup!) and pick up some fighting skills or something. I think she has the potential to build a "small council" of her own in Mereen out of the support she has there - Daario, Misandrei, Tyrion, Jorah, Varys if he ever shows up... there's a whole faction of support there for her now, which in turn would give her the chance to get out a little bit more - train, prepare for the coming battle. And then make advances at the end of Season 6 for King's Landing. I don't know (or care?) what's happened to Greyworm, but it seems forces have been eating away at Daeny's Unsullied army for a while now... how much of an army does she even have left?
A lot has happened recently and people's preferred outcomes seem to be changing as it does. I can see Jon Snow becoming Warden of the North - he'll be named Stark by someone or other in power, but has no desire to rule himself. If not him, then Bran. It'll come down to one or the other, with the other one probably dying. Either of them could have something to do with the dragons too - Bran with his warging, and Jon with the mystery identity of his mother which could very well mean he has Targaryen blood. If Daenerys were to rule, I could see her instating Jon or Bran as Warden of the North after the final battle.
I can see Daenerys going for the throne, though the Lannister's will have a last bid at it - if Tommen is still King in the final battle, I can't see Daenerys bringing him down - both as he extremely young, and because he's also quite innocent. Whether Margaery is also still in the picture that far down the line remains to be seen (or indeed Cersei), but I could see Daenerys offering to share her Throne with Tommen - uniting the two houses essentially. This would also be a gesture of goodwill for the support Tyrion gives Daenerys over time in his advisory position.
The only warning light going off right now, and something of a Chekhov's Gun, is Myrcella. They've gone to a lot of effort to bring her back, and I suspect this may be because of plot reasons. If she were to assume the throne after Tommen (were something to happen to him), it'd make Daenerys' moral dilemma of reaching the throne even more difficult... she could share the throne with Tommen, but they can't have two Queen's. Myrcella already has a suitor, uniting houses on both sides of the Narrow Sea - any attempt from Daenerys to dethrone them would make her very unpopular.
The only character I can't really tell where they're going with is Arya. She's not trying to get back home, she's not in a quest for the throne, she's not linked to the fight against the White Walkers, nor is she involved with the dragons. It's really hard to see where she's going to fit in with all of this.
There's a scene from Season 2 that might be worth revisiting here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1OpEwhEMdc
I thought I'd mentioned this after someone brought it up after Ep 8 (may have been a different thread/forum)
A number of Giants can be seen outside the gate at Hardhome.
As none of them make it back inside the gate we can assume that they were killed and later came back as Wights.
So we'll be seeing some undead Giants at some point in the future.
Not totally correct.
And just in case we don't completely hate Meryn Trant enough we get to see that he's a paedo as well. A girl has a job to do...
And as for events in Mereen, well, it nearly brought a tear to my eye to see Drogon swoop in and turn the Harpies to toast. And I thought for one horrible minute that Ser Friendzone was going to get a pike through his back when he defeated the last guy in the pits. Never tun your back on an opponent unless you're certain he's dead.
And as for Dorne...meh. A shame because I really like Alexander Siddig and Indira Varma. They're good actors but rather wasted in this.
Speaking of that, wasn't the fella who had him bang to rights a Braavosi water dancer? Ahhh Syrio, if only you had a real sword.
Yeah I think they have laid this on a bit too hard. *cuts to Olly's moody face*
Conjecture somewhat based on the books:
A worthy eulogy for him.
Yep
We had fighters from all over the world.
Braavosi
Westeros Knight
Dothraki Screamer
Meereenese Champion
Some sort of Barbarian
can't recall the 6th fighter
The moment Stannis said he want Davos to run an errand I knew Shireen's death was on the cards. It practically screamed it. Davos is the Jiminey Cricket to Stannis's Pinnochio. (And Melisandre is the one pulling the strings.)
Stannis knew he would probably not go through with it or be stopped if Davos was there. Sadly I think Davos knew on some level what was going to happen but I guess his blind loyalty of Stannis tempered those doubts. I don't see Davos and Stannis ever getting back on good terms again.
It's also funny. When Dany and the others were surrounded I asked for a Drogon rescue (I didn't know any spoilres on the episode) and lo and behold the King makes an entrance. The cgi during the flight scene was a tad obvious. But the look on Tyrion's face said it all.