My son is hopefully going to go to our local Catholic school for the same reason and because it's the nearest but I still wont have him christened or baptised. If they won't accept him for who he is then we'll just have to go for our 2nd choice which is still a good school. How can I force a religion on someone when I'm not religious? If religion matters more to them than education or ability then I'd rather he went somewhere where he was accepted.
To me it's not forcing religion on anyone, it's simply going through some nonsensical ritual by splashing water on a babies head. They needn't be religious as a result and I certainly won't be bringing them up in a religious household or taking them to church. To me education is more important. The difference in results in the two schools in my town is huge.
A lot of those people are ticking the 'Christian' box for the wrong reasons.
I always remember from my Army days the guys who would put "no religion" on their forms and some who would refuse to attend church "parade".
They soon changed that to CofE and went to church as and when required, in order to avoid being automatically put on guard duty every Easter / Christmas!:D
My only concern would be if that number was used to justify atheophobic policy.
A label like 'christian' covers a multitude of sins (so to speak) and it has very limited value. I don't worship a god or practice a religion but no doubt have more in common with some christians than some christians have with each other.
I agree, but until they take religion out of school I can see why parents do it. In my area there is a choice of 3 local secondary schools, 2 in my town and one in a nearby village. The school highest up in the league table by far is a Catholic school. I don't have kids yet, but if it meant them going to the better school in future, I would get them christened even though I am atheist. I think it's a stupid thing to do, but if meant my children getting a better education, I would do it.
If its over-subscribed they will expect you to be a regular church goer, too.
Maybe punters should be pressuring the authorities to investigate why church schools out perform secular schools so consistently. then they could apply those findings to all schools.
Well it's bloody obvious. Most people don't seem to know many Christians yet according to the census about 60 % ARE, or CLAIM to be. That is obviously bollox. I'm sure I actually used to tick Christian in my younger adult life until I came to my senses. I've NEVER been a believer in any of that stuff but used to tick it as I clearly wasn't Muslim Jewish, Hebrew or any other cult.
You might like to think that the majority go along with your beliefs and I suspect the majority probably hold the VALUES of the Christian faith (thou shalt not do this that or the other etc), but don't believe in any god.
People are much more likely to consider themselves to be Christian because they were christened or baptised into the religion (72%) or because their parents were members of the religion (38%) than because of personal belief.
True Christianity has been in decline for decades, and is likely to continue. There is an impact from immigration, as the vast majority of EU immigrants will be Christian (staunchly Catholic in the case of Poles), but the increasingly secular nature of the country is likely to continue, which is a thoroughly good thing.
They know it, of course, which is why the Church is so keen to run as many schools as it possibly can. Try to brainwash them when they're young, and the tide may be turned. If it works in Islam, then it can work in the historic hobby faiths. The number of faith schools is an abomination, and totally out of synch with society.
My mum describes herself as Christian on employment forms etc but she doesn't believe in God and she doesn't believe Jesus was the son of God, so I bet there's a number of people like that..
In the 2011 census it was reported that 59.3% of people from England and Wales are Christian.
Im a bit staggered by this, as I would say that most people I interact with aka friends, families, colleagues etc are mostly atheist. I myself am agnostic.
So is it that I just stay in atheist social circles and dont really see the 59.3% of people that are Christians, or are there a lot of secret Christians out there, or do people just feel more comfortable putting Christian rather than no religion.
I want to know what others make of the census too.
Please have respect for other peoples beliefs and please dont turn this into a "is god or allah real" thread, there are plenty of threads for that.
If its over-subscribed they will expect you to be a regular church goer, too.
Maybe punters should be pressuring the authorities to investigate why church schools out perform secular schools so consistently. then they could apply those findings to all schools.
Isn't it down to selection? The schools themselves usually have an admissions policy and the more motivated and supportive parents will do almost anything to get their kids into a school with fewer disruptive pupils, thus making the school even more attractive.
Ironically those faith schools with a more inclusive admissions policy in less affluent communities are likely to find thay have the same social problems and poor discipline as other schools in their area.
Late 18th Century, I'd have though. Possibly very early 19th.
(Legally permitted, that is).
I'm sure it would have been illegal so probably not. If you have any evidence though it would be interesting. I've never been able to find any. Rebels from the Monmouth Rebellion were sent to work on the sugar plantations in the West Indies but I'm not aware of any slave markets as such in the UK.
If its over-subscribed they will expect you to be a regular church goer, too.
Maybe punters should be pressuring the authorities to investigate why church schools out perform secular schools so consistently. then they could apply those findings to all schools.
If that is the case and its over subscribed, I will take them to church for a short period of time. I know quite a few non-religious people who have done similar to get married in the church that they want too.
My mum describes herself as Christian on employment forms etc but she doesn't believe in God and she doesn't believe Jesus was the son of God, so I bet there's a number of people like that..
Makes you wonder when the last slave market in Britain was? Probably Roman times.
Between 1697 and 1807, 2,108 known ships left Bristol to make the trip to Africa and onwards across the Atlantic with slaves. An average of twenty slaving voyages set sail a year.[5] Approximately 500,000 slaves were brought into slavery by these ships, representing one-fifth of the British slave trade during this time
I also fear that there are people being treated as sex slaves etc within a mile of where I am typing this today.
Between 1697 and 1807, 2,108 known ships left Bristol to make the trip to Africa and onwards across the Atlantic with slaves. An average of twenty slaving voyages set sail a year.[5] Approximately 500,000 slaves were brought into slavery by these ships, representing one-fifth of the British slave trade during this time
Yes, I'm aleady aware of British companies and their involvement in the transportation of African slaves. my question was about slave markets within the Bristish Isles. Many people believe that they existed but I've never found any evidence of any.
I've been saying for ages on here that that the UK is 'anti-Christian' (forget about anti-any other religons!)
No one believes in it. No one cares about it. Most people seem to think its all fairy tales.
No one! Not a single person! And yet every Sunday I go past a church so full that they have to hire an entire cinema for the video link to the service. And if I go home via a slightly circuitous route, a Catholic church with a regular congregation of 600. Both very thriving, thank you. (And both dwarfed by a church in Walthamstow which gets a congregation of 8000.)
There is NO WAY that 60% of this country are Christians!!! And those that are will all be dead in 10-20 years because their probably aged 75 & over!
Or Polish, African, West Indian, Sri Lankan, Romanian or any other ethnicity with a very high level of church attendance.
The figures are only surprising if you believe everything you read on DS, where a high number of posters are fanatically atheist. There seems to exist the view (by some) that if you're a Christian it automatically means you're an evangelistic, homophobic, judgemental nutcase.
People's belief in religion, or lack of it, can be a quite complex thing. There is a huge range of where people would put themselves on a line extending from "I believe everything written in the bible and go to church regularly" down to "I am 100% convinced there is no God". I would speculate that most people are some way down that line, yet still consider themselves Christian. And there's nowt wrong with that, much as some militant atheists would like there to be.
That's very well put.
Hang out at a crown court and you see the same kind of thing; you CAN affirm, but the great majority of people swear on the Bible.
And I have a friend who is a hospice chaplain, and who finds that most people do welcome him and are happy for him to 'say a few words' when they are close to death. He is far too sensitive and well-trained to start intoning what you might call hard-core prayers, but most people are happy as the end approaches to be offered some kind of blessing or non-specific prayer.
If its over-subscribed they will expect you to be a regular church goer, too.
Maybe punters should be pressuring the authorities to investigate why church schools out perform secular schools so consistently. then they could apply those findings to all schools.
Hmmm, yes. I benefited myself. I wanted my children to go to the very good (Catholic) sixth form college within walking distance of my home, and not to the much less academic college considerably further away. So did my devoutly religious neighbour. My children were very academic, and my neighbour's son was very unacademic (though a nice boy, with an unblemished record). Guess who mysteriously got into the college, which by law may only select by religious affiliation? And who didn't?
If that is the case and its over subscribed, I will take them to church for a short period of time. I know quite a few non-religious people who have done similar to get married in the church that they want too.
BE prepared for quite a commitment. Catholic schools, if over-subscribed, (and since most Polish people are Catholics, some of them are very over-subscribed indeed) tend to look for evidence of regular attendance over a period of years; attendance at small groups, eg Bible study groups; willingness to volunteer, eg with the Sunday school, lunch clubs, buildings committee etc; and general evidence that you are very committed to the church. They know very well that parents will try and shoe-horn their way in a year before the church reference has to be written and they don't like it.
and your evidence to back up this assertion is what, precisely ?
Everyone I've ever known doing exactly that, including me until a few years ago (the census, actually).
I'm seriously contemplating what to say in reply to the religion question now, actually, since I have basically rejected Christianity but am nowhere near ready for a Jewish conversion
Comments
To me it's not forcing religion on anyone, it's simply going through some nonsensical ritual by splashing water on a babies head. They needn't be religious as a result and I certainly won't be bringing them up in a religious household or taking them to church. To me education is more important. The difference in results in the two schools in my town is huge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism
I always remember from my Army days the guys who would put "no religion" on their forms and some who would refuse to attend church "parade".
They soon changed that to CofE and went to church as and when required, in order to avoid being automatically put on guard duty every Easter / Christmas!:D
Yes when I joined the RAF I said no religion, the corporal crossed that out and put CoE instead pointing out that was the best option.
You clearly got a better class of chap in the RAF. The Army Corporal's would let you learn the hard way.:D
A label like 'christian' covers a multitude of sins (so to speak) and it has very limited value. I don't worship a god or practice a religion but no doubt have more in common with some christians than some christians have with each other.
If its over-subscribed they will expect you to be a regular church goer, too.
Maybe punters should be pressuring the authorities to investigate why church schools out perform secular schools so consistently. then they could apply those findings to all schools.
There is a lot of guesswork going on
I never tick boxes without thinking about it. I assume that most right minded people do the same.
What sort of persecutions do you have in mind ?
Most people just fill out the form accurately.
The RAF do not stand over people when they complete the census form
and your evidence to back up this assertion is what, precisely ?
I put atheist on the census.
Late 18th Century, I'd have though. Possibly very early 19th.
(Legally permitted, that is).
Isn't it down to selection? The schools themselves usually have an admissions policy and the more motivated and supportive parents will do almost anything to get their kids into a school with fewer disruptive pupils, thus making the school even more attractive.
Ironically those faith schools with a more inclusive admissions policy in less affluent communities are likely to find thay have the same social problems and poor discipline as other schools in their area.
I'm sure it would have been illegal so probably not. If you have any evidence though it would be interesting. I've never been able to find any. Rebels from the Monmouth Rebellion were sent to work on the sugar plantations in the West Indies but I'm not aware of any slave markets as such in the UK.
I'm shocked. I didnt know she was a ......... Man Utd fan!!!
If that is the case and its over subscribed, I will take them to church for a short period of time. I know quite a few non-religious people who have done similar to get married in the church that they want too.
Thats how you would describe a NON-CHRISTIAN!
Weird!
No you didn't.
Yes I did as its nothing to be embarrassed by is it or ashamed by.
Not saying you should be embarrassed or ashamed, just saying that you did not put atheist on the census.
Between 1697 and 1807, 2,108 known ships left Bristol to make the trip to Africa and onwards across the Atlantic with slaves. An average of twenty slaving voyages set sail a year.[5] Approximately 500,000 slaves were brought into slavery by these ships, representing one-fifth of the British slave trade during this time
I also fear that there are people being treated as sex slaves etc within a mile of where I am typing this today.
Yes, I'm aleady aware of British companies and their involvement in the transportation of African slaves. my question was about slave markets within the Bristish Isles. Many people believe that they existed but I've never found any evidence of any.
Yes I did.
See post #60.
Or Polish, African, West Indian, Sri Lankan, Romanian or any other ethnicity with a very high level of church attendance. That's very well put.
Hang out at a crown court and you see the same kind of thing; you CAN affirm, but the great majority of people swear on the Bible.
And I have a friend who is a hospice chaplain, and who finds that most people do welcome him and are happy for him to 'say a few words' when they are close to death. He is far too sensitive and well-trained to start intoning what you might call hard-core prayers, but most people are happy as the end approaches to be offered some kind of blessing or non-specific prayer. Hmmm, yes. I benefited myself. I wanted my children to go to the very good (Catholic) sixth form college within walking distance of my home, and not to the much less academic college considerably further away. So did my devoutly religious neighbour. My children were very academic, and my neighbour's son was very unacademic (though a nice boy, with an unblemished record). Guess who mysteriously got into the college, which by law may only select by religious affiliation? And who didn't?
BE prepared for quite a commitment. Catholic schools, if over-subscribed, (and since most Polish people are Catholics, some of them are very over-subscribed indeed) tend to look for evidence of regular attendance over a period of years; attendance at small groups, eg Bible study groups; willingness to volunteer, eg with the Sunday school, lunch clubs, buildings committee etc; and general evidence that you are very committed to the church. They know very well that parents will try and shoe-horn their way in a year before the church reference has to be written and they don't like it.
Everyone I've ever known doing exactly that, including me until a few years ago (the census, actually).
I'm seriously contemplating what to say in reply to the religion question now, actually, since I have basically rejected Christianity but am nowhere near ready for a Jewish conversion