It's not the killing of foxes that I'm against, it's the way in which they're killed. Fox hunting with hounds is barbaric and it says a lot, a LOT about anyone taking part in this 'sport'.
What if the method of slaughter was reclassified as halal?
It's not the killing of foxes that I'm against, it's the way in which they're killed. Fox hunting with hounds is barbaric and it says a lot, a LOT about anyone taking part in this 'sport'.
Totally agree with this.
It's cruel & barbaric & I really wouldn't want to associate with anyone who thinks it's a fun sport. People who are cruel to animals, are to be regarded with great suspicion. What else are they capable of?
Who knew so many people cared about the welfare of foxes? And let's face it, it was only banned as a sop by Blair to his pathetic backbenchers who were still feeling guilty about Iraq.
I really can't be bothered to debate fox hunting again and if I was in the mood for it I certainly wouldn't entertain debating it in one of Jol's typically spun anti tory little white lie threads.
"Tories to legalise fox hunting if they win the GE!!"
Where does it say that (apart from inside jol44's head?
As pointed out to you by other posters, the thread title, 'Tories to legalise fox hunting if they win 2015 general election' is the Daily Telegraph headline. Yes, the number one supporting Tory newspaper.
A vote on the issue is being written into the Tory manifesto.
So it begs the question. Are you genuinely concerned for the welfare of animals or are you using fox hunting as a means to attack those who you perceive as the rich?
I [1}See this thread is full of very emotive language[/B] and [2]there's clearly an element of class warfare at work here. There's also some rather dubious allegations being thrown around. With that in mind,I know this is asking for trouble, 3]Has anybody here actually been on a hunt before or are we all just going by the media portrayal of hunting?
1.People often do get emotive on cruelty issues - haven't you noticed?
2. All social classes are involved in hunting with hounds. What's your point?
3. Funnily enough no - I haven't been involved in child cruelty either, but I still hold views on others who commit it.
So it begs the question. Are you genuinely concerned for the welfare of animals or are you using fox hunting as a means to attack those who you perceive as the rich?
What, can people only have one reason to be against something? I wasn't aware of that.
Myself, it's due to animal welfare. I'm against it because I find find it repulsive.
If someone does see it as a class issue though, that's up to them, the last time I looked the Tories hadn't banned that, yet. Funny how we see class warfare waged against the poor day in day out by the media in this country yet people like you don't say anything about it.
1.People often do get emotive on cruelty issues - haven't you noticed?
2. All social classes are involved in hunting with hounds. What's your point?
3. Funnily enough no - I haven't been involved in child cruelty either, but I still hold views on others who commit it.
1 and 3 are linked. It's all well and good to get emotive about things but unless you've actually been on a hunt you can't be sure how cruel it is, if it is at all. You're assuming that on all fox hunts, the hunt ends with the death of a fox, Have you even considered that they might end sooner than that? That the fox might actually survive? That the whole objective of the hunt isn't to kill the fox at all but something else?
As for 2. I'm a bit confused. If hunting transcends social class. Why are there several comments in this thread making reference to "toffs" and upper class bloodlust, yet the middle and working classes get overlooked?
1 and 3 are linked. It's all well and good to get emotive about things but unless you've actually been on a hunt you can't be sure how cruel it is, if it is at all. You're assuming that on all fox hunts, the hunt ends with the death of a fox, Have you even considered that they might end sooner than that? That the fox might actually survive? That the whole objective of the hunt isn't to kill the fox at all but something else?
As for 2. I'm a bit confused. If hunting transcends social class. Why are there several comments in this thread making reference to "toffs" and upper class bloodlust, yet the middle and working classes get overlooked?
Even if the fox gets away, it's still been terrified, which is cruel.
If it's just the thrill of the chase that you're after, go drag hunting. Otherwise you're just trying to justify cruelty.
It's not a class thing, it's animal welfare. Okay, so some people may use 'toff' as a term of abuse but 'psychopathic tw*t' would do just as well. To try to spin this as class envy is a tired and failed argument.
"Oh, if only I had their money, then I could go hunting too. I'm so envious"
Even if the fox gets away, it's still been terrified, which is cruel.
If it's just the thrill of the chase that you're after, go drag hunting. Otherwise you're just trying to justify cruelty.
That's my whole point. Drag hunting is what we have at the moment and it's perfectly fine. There are very few who want fox hunting back. But that doesn't stop the likes of Jol trying to use fox hunting as an instrument of class warfare by trying to associate those perceived in the upper echelons of society with supporting cruelty.
That's my whole point. Drag hunting is what we have at the moment and it's perfectly fine. There are very few who want fox hunting back. But that doesn't stop the likes of Jol trying to use fox hunting as an instrument of class warfare by trying to associate those perceived in the upper echelons of society with supporting cruelty.
So why do the Tories want it back? Stupidity or - well what?
So why do the Tories want it back? Stupidity or - well what?
Stupidity is my guess. Cameron doesn't know what conservative voters are. That's why they are going over to ukip. He miss judged gay marriage. It's not high on the conservative wishlist. All it did was mobilise the vocal few who opposed it. The rest didn't care one way or the other. When it comes to what conservative voters actually want (eu referendum) he comes out with excuses. He's out of touch with his party members and has no idea how to get in touch. So he throws out ideas, like repealing fox hunting ban, in the hope that he'll find something that he can use to rally the party around him with.
Not quite as bizarre as the tunnel vision that seems to think that it's impossible to oppose both?
I went on a protest march against the Iraq war, I didn't march against fox hunting.
So were you one of the few 'righties' who opposed the invasion of Iraq? as most of the Tory party overwhelmingly supported it, 139 LABOUR MPssupported an amendment saying there was no moral case for war against Iraq.
I wondered how long it would be before the 'ah but what about the Tories' line would pop up.
For the record I was against the involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan - sorry to burst your bubble and all that. ;-)
1 and 3 are linked. It's all well and good to get emotive about things but unless you've actually been on a hunt you can't be sure how cruel it is, if it is at all. You're assuming that on all fox hunts, the hunt ends with the death of a fox, Have you even considered that they might end sooner than that? That the fox might actually survive?[1] That the whole objective of the hunt isn't to kill the fox at all but something else?
As for 2. I'm a bit confused. If hunting transcends social class. [2]Why are there several comments in this thread making reference to "toffs" and upper class bloodlust, yet the middle and working classes get overlooked?
1. I find it incredible that you (presumably an adult) are unaware of the object of a fox hunt. Do you really mean this?
2. I couldn't tell you. The upper classes are few and far between today. Hunting with hounds is predominantly a middle class "sport" with not a few members of the working class being involved too.
That's my whole point. Drag hunting is what we have at the moment and it's perfectly fine. There are very few who want fox hunting back. But that doesn't stop the likes of Jol trying to use fox hunting as an instrument of class warfare by trying to associate those perceived in the upper echelons of society with supporting cruelty.
The hunts and their supporters want the return of fox hunting. What do you think the Countryside Alliance is all about?
They tend to remain quiet about hare coursing though, which was outlawed at the same time as fox hunting.
The hunts and their supporters want the return of fox hunting. What do you think the Countryside Alliance is all about?
It's the only thing they are about, every other statement from the CA is a lie to conceal that this is their only policy - they are the countryside equivalent of Ukip.
It's the only thing they are about, every other statement from the CA is a lie to conceal that this is their only policy - they are the countryside equivalent of Ukip.
If heard correctly on radio that Farage seems to be in support of fox hunting the same as Cons then I may have to scrub him from my voters list along with the other main runners, leaving me no one suitable to vote for this next time !
If heard correctly on radio that Farage seems to be in support of fox hunting the same as Cons then I may have to scrub him from my voters list along with the other main runners, leaving me no one suitable to vote for this next time !
If Farage also wants fox hunting with hounds to be made legal again, I don't think that will do his popularity good either. There's absolutely no reason what-so-ever as to why foxes should be ripped apart when they're being killed. People who take part in this unnecessary and barbaric 'sport' wouldn't be able to justify it either. All they'd say is that foxes need to be killed. Maybe, but like this? Definitely not.
Comments
What if the method of slaughter was reclassified as halal?
Totally agree with this.
It's cruel & barbaric & I really wouldn't want to associate with anyone who thinks it's a fun sport. People who are cruel to animals, are to be regarded with great suspicion. What else are they capable of?
Absolutely. And I'm proud that people care.
What is silly is you believing the Labour Party is Left wing.
But you're right that tribal party politics is exactly what the Establishment wants the British people to think is "politics".
As pointed out to you by other posters, the thread title, 'Tories to legalise fox hunting if they win 2015 general election' is the Daily Telegraph headline. Yes, the number one supporting Tory newspaper.
A vote on the issue is being written into the Tory manifesto.
So what.
So it begs the question. Are you genuinely concerned for the welfare of animals or are you using fox hunting as a means to attack those who you perceive as the rich?
1.People often do get emotive on cruelty issues - haven't you noticed?
2. All social classes are involved in hunting with hounds. What's your point?
3. Funnily enough no - I haven't been involved in child cruelty either, but I still hold views on others who commit it.
What, can people only have one reason to be against something? I wasn't aware of that.
Myself, it's due to animal welfare. I'm against it because I find find it repulsive.
If someone does see it as a class issue though, that's up to them, the last time I looked the Tories hadn't banned that, yet. Funny how we see class warfare waged against the poor day in day out by the media in this country yet people like you don't say anything about it.
1 and 3 are linked. It's all well and good to get emotive about things but unless you've actually been on a hunt you can't be sure how cruel it is, if it is at all. You're assuming that on all fox hunts, the hunt ends with the death of a fox, Have you even considered that they might end sooner than that? That the fox might actually survive? That the whole objective of the hunt isn't to kill the fox at all but something else?
As for 2. I'm a bit confused. If hunting transcends social class. Why are there several comments in this thread making reference to "toffs" and upper class bloodlust, yet the middle and working classes get overlooked?
Even if the fox gets away, it's still been terrified, which is cruel.
If it's just the thrill of the chase that you're after, go drag hunting. Otherwise you're just trying to justify cruelty.
It's not a class thing, it's animal welfare. Okay, so some people may use 'toff' as a term of abuse but 'psychopathic tw*t' would do just as well. To try to spin this as class envy is a tired and failed argument.
"Oh, if only I had their money, then I could go hunting too. I'm so envious"
no
That's my whole point. Drag hunting is what we have at the moment and it's perfectly fine. There are very few who want fox hunting back. But that doesn't stop the likes of Jol trying to use fox hunting as an instrument of class warfare by trying to associate those perceived in the upper echelons of society with supporting cruelty.
Stupidity is my guess. Cameron doesn't know what conservative voters are. That's why they are going over to ukip. He miss judged gay marriage. It's not high on the conservative wishlist. All it did was mobilise the vocal few who opposed it. The rest didn't care one way or the other. When it comes to what conservative voters actually want (eu referendum) he comes out with excuses. He's out of touch with his party members and has no idea how to get in touch. So he throws out ideas, like repealing fox hunting ban, in the hope that he'll find something that he can use to rally the party around him with.
As far as I know, halal is a method used when killing an animal for food.
I wondered how long it would be before the 'ah but what about the Tories' line would pop up.
For the record I was against the involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan - sorry to burst your bubble and all that. ;-)
Who exactly is putting it in the manifesto!!
So only people who have committed murder can have a view on it?
That's a ludicrous angle to take.
1. I find it incredible that you (presumably an adult) are unaware of the object of a fox hunt. Do you really mean this?
2. I couldn't tell you. The upper classes are few and far between today. Hunting with hounds is predominantly a middle class "sport" with not a few members of the working class being involved too.
The hunts and their supporters want the return of fox hunting. What do you think the Countryside Alliance is all about?
They tend to remain quiet about hare coursing though, which was outlawed at the same time as fox hunting.
They call it "Wildlife management", though.
If Farage also wants fox hunting with hounds to be made legal again, I don't think that will do his popularity good either. There's absolutely no reason what-so-ever as to why foxes should be ripped apart when they're being killed. People who take part in this unnecessary and barbaric 'sport' wouldn't be able to justify it either. All they'd say is that foxes need to be killed. Maybe, but like this? Definitely not.