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The Bali Nine, 2 moved to Execution site.
Blue Eyed lady
Posts: 6,007 Forum Member
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-31705745
I have followed this case off & on throughout the past decade & I've also read this book http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9311548-bali-9.
I, 100% oppose the death penalty but that's not the main reason I'm totally against what is happening to these men. The Bali nine were guilty of drug smuggling & of course they deserve to be punished for their crime but is nearly 10 years inside some Hell hole of a prison not punishment enough?
The majority of the men & one female were either teenagers or in their early twenties & I presume, they naively and stupidly thought it was a quick way to make some easy money.
I'm in no way condoning what they did & as I said earlier they should be punished but is prison not only a punishment but an opportunity to be rehabilitated, if so, Andrew Chan & Myuran Sukumaran by all accounts have been both punished & rehabilitated so why the need to put them in front of the firing squad?
I appreciate the Indonesian Government have their own laws & some will argue that killing Chan & Sukumaran will possibly prevent any other young person doing something as incredibly stupid as the Bali nine but the whole thing is leaving me sick to the stomach.
I'm curious as to what other FMs think?
I have followed this case off & on throughout the past decade & I've also read this book http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9311548-bali-9.
I, 100% oppose the death penalty but that's not the main reason I'm totally against what is happening to these men. The Bali nine were guilty of drug smuggling & of course they deserve to be punished for their crime but is nearly 10 years inside some Hell hole of a prison not punishment enough?
The majority of the men & one female were either teenagers or in their early twenties & I presume, they naively and stupidly thought it was a quick way to make some easy money.
I'm in no way condoning what they did & as I said earlier they should be punished but is prison not only a punishment but an opportunity to be rehabilitated, if so, Andrew Chan & Myuran Sukumaran by all accounts have been both punished & rehabilitated so why the need to put them in front of the firing squad?
I appreciate the Indonesian Government have their own laws & some will argue that killing Chan & Sukumaran will possibly prevent any other young person doing something as incredibly stupid as the Bali nine but the whole thing is leaving me sick to the stomach.
I'm curious as to what other FMs think?
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I also feel Indonesia are a tad hypocritical. They are actively trying to stop this happening to Indonesians in other jails around the world yet trot out the "this is our sovereign right" crap.
As far as I know, relations between Australia & Indonesia have never been great, I suspect with this turn of events, things are going to get a whole lot worse.
Totally agree re BIB.
They took a calculated risk. They had full knowledge of what the potential punishment was but chose to take the risk anyway. And had their smuggling operation succeeded I suspect they would have taken great pleasure in spending their profits on enjoying their life irrespective of what damage the heroin would do to other people. And I suspect that once that money had run out they would have tried the same thing again.
I therefore have very little sympathy for the greedy drug smugglers.
Occupational hazard.
Dont know where you heard that - traditionally they ve been pretty close
That aside i wonder where they 'll do the executing .Indonesia has a thing about firing squads on secluded beaches - ain't many of those in Bali ...not anymore
I agree I think they probably would have if they hadn't been caught but my view is, they were caught, & to date, everything I've read/seen has shown their time in prison has changed them into better people, therefore I'm unclear as to what is to be gained by killing them.
I'm sure it will but are there not other ways to demonstrate this to young people other than killing 2 reformed men?
I've read lots of contradictory articles regarding relations between both countries & I guess I've gone with the majority ie relations are poor.
I believe they've been flown to some remote island.
No it won't. Young people think they are untouchable for a certain number of years, young men especially.
Sorry but I have no sympathy for them or their plight, this offering to swap nonsense from Abbot shows what a weak leader the nation has, he should be supporting the Indoneasians in their fight against drug smuggling not belittling or criticising them.
Don't see any criticism of China where scum such as smugglers and murderers are executed with the family of the scumbag billed for the cost of the bullet.
Will it stop people trying to smuggle drugs there, I doubt it but those caught won't do it again.
I don't agree with the death penalty but these people knew it was a risk in that country.
I don't agree with the DP either but at the end of the day their country their rules so to speak.
You don't?
The new Indonesian President Joko Widodo has certainly taken a hard line on what he sees as an endemic problem in his country. He calls it his countries ‘drug emergency’.
Mr Joko often expresses his concern about the 4.5 million people in Indonesia whose lives are "in ruin" because of drugs.
"If you come to drug rehabilitation centres, you will see the effect drugs have on these people," he said.
When asked about the rehabilitation of the two Australians, he said he could not discriminate between people from different countries.
They are amongst a group of 11 people (including several other nationalities) due to be executed in the Nusakambangan island prison . The judicial authorities give a statutory notice period of 72 hours before the executions take place.
That final 72hr notice has not yet been given as far as I know.
Mr Joko appears to have a very personal and political agenda; he wants to send out a very clear world-wide message to anyone attempting to smuggle drugs within Indonesaia. i.e. ‘Do so at your peril’!...
......to that end, one has to say, Mr Joko is succeeding admirably.
However, his hard line stance does not bode well for the Australians (who were jailed in 2006) and the dozens of other prisoners who have been condemned to death over the past few years.....:o
On reflection, I agree.
Yes I believe that was the father of the youngest of Bali nine, Scott Rush. As I said in an earlier post, I've followed this case & have never been able to get my head around why the Australian police waited till they left the country before they took any action.
This is an interesting article & I can only reiterate what it says especially the following quote.............
"The execution will send an appalling message: that even if you do wrong there is no point in repentance, for you will be executed anyway by a state prepared to lower itself to the same base level as the lowest criminal".
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/smh-editorial/joko-widodo-has-power-but-no-moral-right-to-kill-bali-nine-pair-myuran-sukumaran-and-andrew-chan-20150305-13uvz4.html
Black Sabbath guitarist Tony Iommi has pleaded for the lives of two Australians sentenced to death in Indonesia, by writing a letter to the country’s President Joko Widodo – a heavy metal fan.
http://metalhammer.teamrock.com/news/2015-03-04/black-sabbath-tony-iommi-indonesia-drug-executions
Thanks for sharing that. As you say, it probably won't make any difference but good on Tony Iommi for trying & imo, his letter makes perfect sense.
I have no way of knowing, but I would guess Mr Joko’s stance would be that ‘repentance’ is little more than a word to drug smugglers before they are caught;...
...’repentance’ after they are caught, and convicted of drug offences, counts for very little in his eyes, apparently. Many people probably share that view.
These criminals, repentant or not, have committed heinous crimes in his country and he appears to be intent on pursuing his course of action come hell or high-water.
I totally respect your POV but is prison, in any country not only about punishment but also about rehabilitation & reforming?
Of course there are thousands of criminals who say they've seen the error of their ways, became a better person, when really it's just empty words said in the hope of leniency.
However, when it comes to Chan & Sukumaran, I am totally convinced they are not the same people who entered Kerobokan a decade ago, they've spent a vast amount of their sentence learning new skills, have been a massive support to other prisoners, not only a support but helping them find the correct path in life.
I'm in no doubt Joko Widodo will carry out the execution but I'll never accept he's made the correct decision.
Don't get it either.
They aren't exactly the most popular people at the moment. Already seen a few "Blood on their hands" comments.
http://www.9news.com.au/National/2015/03/05/18/27/Indonesia-rules-out-prisoner-transfer-in-Bali-Nine-case