Oh dear oh dear. Doesn't quite match the calamitous collapse against Newcastle a few years ago but comes pretty damn close. At home too! Nothing should surprise the fans any more with our manager.
"It was a combination of fatigue and switching off. We dropped off and were always open. We didn't stop the crosses or the long balls."
Fatigue, at home, 3-1 up! Okay the first goal was miles offside but that should have been a consolation, no more. It just sums Wenger up really. Tactically inept, stubborn and complacent. Reactive, not proactive and so on.
once again, no-one in the media putting Wenger on the spot for his tactical incompetence. Pretty easy I'd have thought to get a message to the team (FBs, Ramsey particularly) from the touchline if he'd wanted to, to the effect of 'sit back and defend the lead'. He brings on 2 attacking players as subs when we were 3-2 up. . He had a FB on the bench and Chambers is able to play CB or DM. Headless chicken time.
I see in the press this morning he's accused the players of complacency.
Well as a fan I accuse him of incompetence.
I see in the press this morning he's accused the players of complacency.
Well as a fan I accuse him of incompetence.
Was he suppose to pat them on the back and say its all ny fault. The players let him down and rightly so he was pissed. You do not need a manager to tell you what to do 3-0 up at home against any team.
Imo at 3-0 up what more does he do? Everything was going our way. Did not see any gooner moaning how we should have shored up defence etc.
Even at 3-1 the players should still have done better, there was no pressure we could have got the 4th easy.
Yes you have a point it comes back to him because of the lack of defence bought in the summer. However imo and u all know i am a AOB. The players let Sanchez and the fans down.
Although I agree the players should have had more sense than to carry on gung ho rather than shut the game down - they do need guidance from someone. Tactics - who knows?
Nope you would not see the invincibles chucking it away. They had players who used their brains. Maybe its harsh to blame the Defence because its rubbish anyway. However players like Santi,Ramsey, Flamini and even Per and Gibbs should know by now how to see a game out. Wenger yeah made mistakes like taking Arteta off instead of Santi and maybe not moving Chambers to the middle for monreal and put Hector on the right. However sometimes players need to man up. Because at 3-0 we had enough to see it through. I guess lucky for us Dortmund will rest a few players when we play them.
Arteta was injured wasn't he? He doesn't usually hook players before the 70th minute otherwise. Would have been an ideal game to bring on Theo at some point. Give him some much needed playing time and stretch them at the back. It seems like we were neither one or the other (Offensive or defensive) and paid for it.
I'm not letting the players off the hook. The wheels came off after Arteta was subbed (he's injured)
Just saying if you are a manager and see your full backs keeping bombing forward, and your only vaguely competent holding midfielder doing likewise, you give instructions from the touchline.
It comes down to coaching or lack of.
Arteta was injured wasn't he? He doesn't usually hook players before the 70th minute otherwise. Would have been an ideal game to bring on Theo at some point. Give him some much needed playing time and stretch them at the back. It seems like we were neither one or the other (Offensive or defensive) and paid for it.
Did not know MA was injured just thought he was just resting him.
I think i have just about calmed down after that shambles last night.
Its all been said on this forum " clueless manager clueless players".
I cannot wait for Debuchy & Kos to return.
Bfg cant cope with Monreal beside him.
Monreal turning into another Senderous pathitic.
Talk about getting a DM will need two quality CD.
I look at Sanchez workn his balls off & wonder what his thoughts are.
If this is not turned round soon why would he stay.
Lets face facts he's carrying the team & its his first season.
I'm going to cut some slack to Monreal. He's not a centre half and and it's only because Wenger saw fit not to bring anyone in (despite selling Verm) that he's been forced to play him there. He's not had a bad season and is generally quite a tidy player but he is no centre back. I am more concerned about Cazorla and Ramsey and their current form at the moment.
I look at Sanchez workn his balls off & wonder what his thoughts are.
That's the real issue. Why on earth would a player of his quality want to stay given the shambles around him. Honestly, we'll have a struggle to hold onto him once one of the big clubs comes in with a stupid bid and I wouldn't blame him in the slightest.
I can't get myself worked up anymore because this disaster has been years in the making but the really annoying thing is we do have the makings of a title chasing side with the addition of two or three more key players in the right positions and a manager with the right tactical and motivational skills. No chance of any of that happening however while the incompetent, arrogant fool remains in charge.
Nope you would not see the invincibles chucking it away. They had players who used their brains. Maybe its harsh to blame the Defence because its rubbish anyway. However players like Santi,Ramsey, Flamini and even Per and Gibbs should know by now how to see a game out. Wenger yeah made mistakes like taking Arteta off instead of Santi and maybe not moving Chambers to the middle for monreal and put Hector on the right. However sometimes players need to man up. Because at 3-0 we had enough to see it through. I guess lucky for us Dortmund will rest a few players when we play them.
We can't compare our team now to the likes of Vierra, DB, Henry, Adams etc, they were all leaders on and off the pitch. Can't imagine any of our lot giving a team mate a bollocking in the dressing room, can you?
But let's be honest, we've capitulated so many times now over the years - why isn't someone (ie our super well paid manager) sorting it out? It happens time and time again with different groups of players.
And what are the tactics? Didn't Cesc say he had no real idea until he went to Barcelona? And that's from a player who had the utmost respect for Wenger, not from someone who wanted to just put the boot in. I'm not convinced our players are being guided enough. Take Mourinho for example, he's constantly standing on the touch line issuing instructions and making substitutions to help change the game, but all Wenger does is stand there, flap his arms and argue with the linesman?
And make no mistake, we can be turned over by Swansea on the weekend, and what about our annual 'just hand them the three points' match with Utd. Something's got to give soon.
Hi Gunners. I'm sure you won't take this the wrong way, but our local paper has been doing FA Cup stuff from over the years for York City (and we have a big Cup history, both FA Cup and League Cup (such as beating Man U 3-0 at Old Trafford - happiest night of my life )
But I don't think I've seen this uploaded on youtube until now.
York City 1-0 Arsenal in 1985. Remember it as a kid very well. Both York and Arsenal fans were on the pitch for an hour before kick off clearing the snow off the pitch. Was a very nice atmosphere, helped by the fact we all thought it would be a cricket score.
Hi Gunners. I'm sure you won't take this the wrong way, but our local paper has been doing FA Cup stuff from over the years for York City (and we have a big Cup history, both FA Cup and League Cup (such as beating Man U 3-0 at Old Trafford - happiest night of my life )
But I don't think I've seen this uploaded on youtube until now.
York City 1-0 Arsenal in 1985. Remember it as a kid very well. Both York and Arsenal fans were on the pitch for an hour before kick off clearing the snow off the pitch. Was a very nice atmosphere, helped by the fact we all thought it would be a cricket score.
Bootham Crescent at its finest. We leave there after next season (albeit to a very nice new £32m stadium complex).
Steve Williams gave away the penalty and Keith Houchen scored it. It wasn't Houchen's most famous FA Cup goal. That was the diving header two years later for Coventry against Spurs.
Arsenal were famous for being a drunken rabble in those days. They were a real version of the stereotypical, overpaid, prima donna team. You had Champagne Charlie and the rest of the "song and dance" brigade.
It was a case of the more things change, the more they stay the same because that Arsenal team of the mid 80s (like the one of today) was also known for having no stomach for the fight. I don't think they fancied the arctic weather against York.
29 years ago! Where does the time go?!! I remember it well. Listening to the comm on the radio. Heading for a replay then Steve Williams gives the pen away. Gutted I was. Can imagine the atmosphere on the team bus back south. Had all the ingredients for an upset. The flash lot from the south playing the journeymen of York City. Snow, bitter northerly winds, crunching tackles, dodgy pitch, nothing to lose and all that. Oh well. Those shorts!
Hi Gunners. I'm sure you won't take this the wrong way, but our local paper has been doing FA Cup stuff from over the years for York City (and we have a big Cup history, both FA Cup and League Cup (such as beating Man U 3-0 at Old Trafford - happiest night of my life )
But I don't think I've seen this uploaded on youtube until now.
York City 1-0 Arsenal in 1985. Remember it as a kid very well. Both York and Arsenal fans were on the pitch for an hour before kick off clearing the snow off the pitch. Was a very nice atmosphere, helped by the fact we all thought it would be a cricket score.
Bootham Crescent at its finest. We leave there after next season (albeit to a very nice new £32m stadium complex).
Many thanks for that link. I lived in York between 1982 and 1985 - late teens/early 20s - and was a regular at Bootham Cresecent while Arsenal was - and is - my first team. That meant attending a lot of matches in the 1983-84 season when City were the first team to score over 100 points. I also saw them against Newcastle Blue Star and Walsall in the 1st and 3rd rounds of the 84/85 FA Cup and was there when they lost to QPR in the League (Milk) Cup in that season. Sadly I couldn't get tickets for the Arsenal match although I remember it very well.
Here's hoping for a good result for Arsenal against Swansea tomorrow. Like others, I am concerned about the amount of work Sanchez is having to put in. But the news on Walcott is welcome, it sounds like Giroud may be improving and Ramsey often does particularly well when back in Wales although Fabianski could lift his game too. The defence is probably the biggest worry what with the latest news on Koscielny and the ongoing issues with Debuchy. Chambers can't be everywhere. With hindsight, it was probably a mistake to let Jenkinson go to W Ham.
I think i have just about calmed down after that shambles last night.
Its all been said on this forum " clueless manager clueless players".
I cannot wait for Debuchy & Kos to return.
Bfg cant cope with Monreal beside him.
Monreal turning into another Senderous pathitic.
Talk about getting a DM will need two quality CD. I look at Sanchez workn his balls off & wonder what his thoughts are.
If this is not turned round soon why would he stay.
Lets face facts he's carrying the team & its his first season.
Read a piece in the Telegraph on how Arsenal can get back on track and these comments below are spot on:
Wenger is by proxy chairman, technical director, chief scout, interpreter, translator, bean counter, economist, policy maker, property developer, training observer, bottle thrower, and interviewee, but does he have time for coaching?
Wenger the economist. Attractive product. No defending. 4th place trophy.
Wenger stopped coaching ages ago. He doesn't need to. He has the team attacking attractively. That's it.
As aforementioned, the club is no longer a football team but a business designed to play attractive football at all costs. It's not about winning or tactics.
Read a piece in the Telegraph on how Arsenal can get back on track and these comments below are spot on:
No pressure put on Wenger whatsoever.
The article is right apart from the playing attractive football myth, that hasn't happened for years - we'd rather pass backwards and sideways than go forward - very dull.
But Wenger is head cook and bottle washer, there's no getting away from that. He runs the club from top to bottom and has way too much power.
He was spouting on about how's overseen 70,000 games in his managerial career .....zzzzzz.............Okay I exaggerate but he was banging that particular drum again...yawn
Tendinitis is long term usually. I don't expect a fully fit Koscielny for quite a while and Mertesacker is battling without him. Monreal is no one but Wenger's idea of a CB. I doubt Monreal thinks he's any good there either.
Should've found a way to keep Sagna.
Comments
"It was a combination of fatigue and switching off. We dropped off and were always open. We didn't stop the crosses or the long balls."
Fatigue, at home, 3-1 up! Okay the first goal was miles offside but that should have been a consolation, no more. It just sums Wenger up really. Tactically inept, stubborn and complacent. Reactive, not proactive and so on.
I see in the press this morning he's accused the players of complacency.
Well as a fan I accuse him of incompetence.
Was he suppose to pat them on the back and say its all ny fault. The players let him down and rightly so he was pissed. You do not need a manager to tell you what to do 3-0 up at home against any team.
Imo at 3-0 up what more does he do? Everything was going our way. Did not see any gooner moaning how we should have shored up defence etc.
Even at 3-1 the players should still have done better, there was no pressure we could have got the 4th easy.
Yes you have a point it comes back to him because of the lack of defence bought in the summer. However imo and u all know i am a AOB. The players let Sanchez and the fans down.
Nope you would not see the invincibles chucking it away. They had players who used their brains. Maybe its harsh to blame the Defence because its rubbish anyway. However players like Santi,Ramsey, Flamini and even Per and Gibbs should know by now how to see a game out. Wenger yeah made mistakes like taking Arteta off instead of Santi and maybe not moving Chambers to the middle for monreal and put Hector on the right. However sometimes players need to man up. Because at 3-0 we had enough to see it through. I guess lucky for us Dortmund will rest a few players when we play them.
Just saying if you are a manager and see your full backs keeping bombing forward, and your only vaguely competent holding midfielder doing likewise, you give instructions from the touchline.
It comes down to coaching or lack of.
Did not know MA was injured just thought he was just resting him.
Its all been said on this forum " clueless manager clueless players".
I cannot wait for Debuchy & Kos to return.
Bfg cant cope with Monreal beside him.
Monreal turning into another Senderous pathitic.
Talk about getting a DM will need two quality CD.
I look at Sanchez workn his balls off & wonder what his thoughts are.
If this is not turned round soon why would he stay.
Lets face facts he's carrying the team & its his first season.
That's the real issue. Why on earth would a player of his quality want to stay given the shambles around him. Honestly, we'll have a struggle to hold onto him once one of the big clubs comes in with a stupid bid and I wouldn't blame him in the slightest.
I can't get myself worked up anymore because this disaster has been years in the making but the really annoying thing is we do have the makings of a title chasing side with the addition of two or three more key players in the right positions and a manager with the right tactical and motivational skills. No chance of any of that happening however while the incompetent, arrogant fool remains in charge.
We can't compare our team now to the likes of Vierra, DB, Henry, Adams etc, they were all leaders on and off the pitch. Can't imagine any of our lot giving a team mate a bollocking in the dressing room, can you?
But let's be honest, we've capitulated so many times now over the years - why isn't someone (ie our super well paid manager) sorting it out? It happens time and time again with different groups of players.
And what are the tactics? Didn't Cesc say he had no real idea until he went to Barcelona? And that's from a player who had the utmost respect for Wenger, not from someone who wanted to just put the boot in. I'm not convinced our players are being guided enough. Take Mourinho for example, he's constantly standing on the touch line issuing instructions and making substitutions to help change the game, but all Wenger does is stand there, flap his arms and argue with the linesman?
And make no mistake, we can be turned over by Swansea on the weekend, and what about our annual 'just hand them the three points' match with Utd. Something's got to give soon.
That's how bad things have gone....lowering expectations.
English teams in CL are woeful. Dortmund are poor in the league but good in CL its strange.
But I don't think I've seen this uploaded on youtube until now.
York City 1-0 Arsenal in 1985. Remember it as a kid very well. Both York and Arsenal fans were on the pitch for an hour before kick off clearing the snow off the pitch. Was a very nice atmosphere, helped by the fact we all thought it would be a cricket score.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw3CemSTctA
We took Liverpool to a replay in the next round.
Bootham Crescent at its finest. We leave there after next season (albeit to a very nice new £32m stadium complex).
Steve Williams gave away the penalty and Keith Houchen scored it. It wasn't Houchen's most famous FA Cup goal. That was the diving header two years later for Coventry against Spurs.
Arsenal were famous for being a drunken rabble in those days. They were a real version of the stereotypical, overpaid, prima donna team. You had Champagne Charlie and the rest of the "song and dance" brigade.
It was a case of the more things change, the more they stay the same because that Arsenal team of the mid 80s (like the one of today) was also known for having no stomach for the fight. I don't think they fancied the arctic weather against York.
Many thanks for that link. I lived in York between 1982 and 1985 - late teens/early 20s - and was a regular at Bootham Cresecent while Arsenal was - and is - my first team. That meant attending a lot of matches in the 1983-84 season when City were the first team to score over 100 points. I also saw them against Newcastle Blue Star and Walsall in the 1st and 3rd rounds of the 84/85 FA Cup and was there when they lost to QPR in the League (Milk) Cup in that season. Sadly I couldn't get tickets for the Arsenal match although I remember it very well.
Here's hoping for a good result for Arsenal against Swansea tomorrow. Like others, I am concerned about the amount of work Sanchez is having to put in. But the news on Walcott is welcome, it sounds like Giroud may be improving and Ramsey often does particularly well when back in Wales although Fabianski could lift his game too. The defence is probably the biggest worry what with the latest news on Koscielny and the ongoing issues with Debuchy. Chambers can't be everywhere. With hindsight, it was probably a mistake to let Jenkinson go to W Ham.
Why am I not surprised?
Read a piece in the Telegraph on how Arsenal can get back on track and these comments below are spot on:
No pressure put on Wenger whatsoever.
The article is right apart from the playing attractive football myth, that hasn't happened for years - we'd rather pass backwards and sideways than go forward - very dull.
But Wenger is head cook and bottle washer, there's no getting away from that. He runs the club from top to bottom and has way too much power.
Should've found a way to keep Sagna.
Hope the long day ahead is worth it.
Arsenal 2-1.