My view is that until there is a contraceptive invented that is 100% effective, and fully reversable, available free to anyone then abortion is always going to be necessary.
I have used the pill every day (except one and i got the map the next day) for about 9 years, and condoms as well if i have been unwell or suspect the pill may not be reliable. I feel that i am making enough effort to avoid pregnancy, but if i am one of the <1% who do become pregnant, i should not be punished into having a baby.
As it stands i am following every guideline there is available to me, ruling out abstinance, to avoid pregnancy. There is nothing more i can do. Therefore if i ever had to make the decision, i wouldnt feel guilty, or feel like i deserve to be pregnant due to my own stupidity.
And there it is in a nutshell. If women became pregnant by some other method than having sex, half of the anti-choice mob wouldn't have an opinion. Most of them feel a woman should be punished for having sex.
A 12-week-old foetus us rather more developed than that.
You're blaming the contraception are you? Well, the overwhelming majority of the population manage to avoid unwanted pregnancies. They also manage to avoid sexually transmitted diseases and they manage that in exactly the same way. This is not rocket science.
So the ones that don't manage to avoid it should be punished? Is that really what you're saying?
You get to decide what you say in YOUR posts, not what I say in mine. On your main point, although men will not literally understand such an experience by experiencing it themselves, men are capable of empathy and of a degree of understanding when emotional disress is relayed to them.
Women are also capable of understanding and empathising with others with regard to things they have not experienced.
You think harassing women outside clinics is showing empathy? Is that the male version of empathy, a bullying kind of fellow feeling?
I think it's perfectly valid public protest, as is counter protest. If it offends or upsets people that's just tough. I'm not entitled to live my life without being offended or upset and free speech is paramount on issues of great importance. What happens in legal abortions which is nicer than the illegal ones?
Well the woman is far less likely to die for a start.
A 12-week-old foetus us rather more developed than that.
You're blaming the contraception are you? Well, the overwhelming majority of the population manage to avoid unwanted pregnancies. They also manage to avoid sexually transmitted diseases and they manage that in exactly the same way. This is not rocket science.
I am not blaming contraception, I am merely stating that mistakes happen even when people are trying to avoid them, it is not as black and white as you seem to think. Everyone makes mistakes I don't think a woman should have to pay or it for the rest of her life. It is also a man's responsibilty as well. Also an embryo in the very early stages of pregnancy is not much more than a collection of cells and is still apart of the womans body not a child as you claimed in your earlier post.
If abortion is a perfectly legitimate choice, why can't those who choose to undergo this procedure accept public protest on the issue from those who disagree? If there's nothing wrong with it, how can anyone be "shamed"?
Because even if it's legal it's still the most difficult decision a woman will have to make. No woman makes this choice easily. She already suffers enough without "those who disagree" piling it on.
I don't agree with the circumcision of baby boys. Perhaps I should start harassing parents who have it done to their sons? Would you think that's okay too?
I was made to have an abortion 3 years ago by my former partner and parents, and I have to say when I sought out post-abortion counselling afterwards and I was harassed at the door to the BPA with extremely graphic photos I went into the toilets and cried for half an hour. I never went back. In fact I never sought out counselling again and I went through the grieving and guilt process alone and without any help, which was extremely difficult and still affects me to this day.
These protesters do not help anyone, they only distress women who are already in distressing circumstances.
I was made to have an abortion 3 years ago by my former partner and parents, and I have to say when I sought out post-abortion counselling afterwards and I was harassed at the door to the BPA with extremely graphic photos I went into the toilets and cried for half an hour. I never went back. In fact I never sought out counselling again and I went through the grieving and guilt process alone and without any help, which was extremely difficult and still affects me to this day.
These protesters do not help anyone, they only distress women who are already in distressing circumstances.
Hitler dehumanised Jews. They were scum, not human. Millions of them were then slaughtered.
Babies are dehumanised by abortion supporters, called embrios. Even more millions of them are being slaughtered.
I've never heard a pregnant woman refer to the baby inside her as an embrio. It's the baby, or if she knows the sex, the girl or the boy.
If Baby P was killed before he was born, nobody would dcare that he was dead. His mum wouldn't have had to go to prison. The only crime she committed was waiting until after he was born before letting somebody kill him.
"Vicar and Daughter Held Over Newborn Baby Murde" is the title of another thread in this forum. They wouldn't have been held if the baby was murdered before it was born.
I was made to have an abortion 3 years ago by my former partner and parents, and I have to say when I sought out post-abortion counselling afterwards and I was harassed at the door to the BPA with extremely graphic photos I went into the toilets and cried for half an hour. I never went back. In fact I never sought out counselling again and I went through the grieving and guilt process alone and without any help, which was extremely difficult and still affects me to this day.
These protesters do not help anyone, they only distress women who are already in distressing circumstances.
edit: Missed out a word
Protesters can be the most heartless and cruel pigs going when it comes to certain things.
I am not blaming contraception, I am merely stating that mistakes happen even when people are trying to avoid them, it is not as black and white as you seem to think. Everyone makes mistakes I don't think a woman should have to pay or it for the rest of her life. It is also a man's responsibilty as well. Also an embryo in the very early stages of pregnancy is not much more than a collection of cells and is still apart of the womans body not a child as you claimed in your earlier post.
I suggest you educate yourself. A 12-week-old foetus actually is rather more than a collection of cells.
Not bothering to use contraception, which is the main cause of unwanted pregnancies, is rather more than a mistake. It's an extremely irresponsible and selfish thing to do if you have no intention of giving birth to the child your actions are likely to produce.
Hitler dehumanised Jews. They were scum, not human. Millions of them were then slaughtered.
Babies are dehumanised by abortion supporters, called embrios. Even more millions of them are being slaughtered.
I've never heard a pregnant woman refer to the baby inside her as an embrio. It's the baby, or if she knows the sex, the girl or the boy.
If Baby P was killed before he was born, nobody would dcare that he was dead. His mum wouldn't have had to go to prison. The only crime she committed was waiting until after he was born before letting somebody kill him.
Utter bollocks, and congrats on the Goodwin. It's always interesting to see how quickly that particular comparison gets drawn up on threads like this.
I suggest you educate yourself. A 12-week-old foetus actually is rather more than a collection of cells.
Not bothering to use contraception, which is the main cause of unwanted pregnancies, is rather more than a mistake. It's an extremely irresponsible and selfish thing to do if you have no intention of giving birth to the child your actions are likely to produce.
It's barely more. It's completely incapable of self-sustained life or even supported life outside of the womb.
No contraception is 100% effective, and even if none was used to punish these so-called irresponsible people with one of the most responsible jobs you can do is pretty nonsensical, don't you think?
It has to be, and should always be, the sole decision of the mother. Even if you hate abortion with every fibre of your being you don't get to decide what other people do with their bodies. Not you, not the state, not even the father.
Besides, banning abortion doesn't make it go away. It just means desperate women seek out illegal and dangerous procedures instead.
I suggest you educate yourself. A 12-week-old foetus actually is rather more than a collection of cells.
Not bothering to use contraception, which is the main cause of unwanted pregnancies, is rather more than a mistake. It's an extremely irresponsible and selfish thing to do if you have no intention of giving birth to the child your actions are likely to produce.
That is not necessary as I already have a lot of knowledge on this topic. Many forms of contraception are not as effectiveas you seem to think. A lot of people do use contraception but still manage to get preganant. I'm presuming if you ever made a mistake you would be prepared to suffer the consequences for the rest of your life.
So the ones that don't manage to avoid it should be punished? Is that really what you're saying?
Well, since you mention punishment (I didn't), there is a case to be made that women who have chosen to have more than one abortion should face some sort of redress, but that's another matter.
All I am saying is that the sheer number of unwanted pregnancies and resulting abortions is very disappointing. I wish that people would stop shouting about their rights and concentrate a little more on their responsibilities when it comes to this.
So many abortions are easily avoidable. I just wish people would be more careful and if they can't manage that, perhaps they might want to consider taking some responsibility for their actions. I did when it happened to me and I am proud of my son.
I was made to have an abortion 3 years ago by my former partner and parents, and I have to say when I sought out post-abortion counselling afterwards and I was harassed at the door to the BPA with extremely graphic photos I went into the toilets and cried for half an hour. I never went back. In fact I never sought out counselling again and I went through the grieving and guilt process alone and without any help, which was extremely difficult and still affects me to this day.
These protesters do not help anyone, they only distress women who are already in distressing circumstances.
Well, since you mention punishment (I didn't), there is a case to be made that women who have chosen to have more than one abortion should face some sort of redress, but that's another matter.
What about those men who have 'chosen' to get women pregnant multiple times. Should they face some sort of redress too?
I was made to have an abortion 3 years ago by my former partner and parents, and I have to say when I sought out post-abortion counselling afterwards and I was harassed at the door to the BPA with extremely graphic photos I went into the toilets and cried for half an hour. I never went back. In fact I never sought out counselling again and I went through the grieving and guilt process alone and without any help, which was extremely difficult and still affects me to this day.
These protesters do not help anyone, they only distress women who are already in distressing circumstances.
I suggest you educate yourself. A 12-week-old foetus actually is rather more than a collection of cells.
Not bothering to use contraception, which is the main cause of unwanted pregnancies, is rather more than a mistake. It's an extremely irresponsible and selfish thing to do if you have no intention of giving birth to the child your actions are likely to produce.
I think a women who admits she is not willing or ready to raise a child is the very definition of responsible. Abstinence is the only form of contraception that is 100% protective against pregnancy, however people should have a right to sexual expression outside of reproduction. What we need to advocate is a healthier, safer approach to sexual activity and allow the right to choose an abortion in the case that accidental pregnancies do occur. Women will do anything to get a termination if they are desperate to get one, so safe legal abortion is the only option really. This point, which I think is the most important, seems get lost a lot in the whole debate.
That is not necessary as I already have a lot of knowledge on this topic. Many forms of contraception are not as effectiveas you seem to think. A lot of people do use contraception but still manage to get preganant. I'm presuming if you ever made a mistake you would be prepared to suffer the consequences for the rest of your life.
Aside from your obvious ignorance regarding the development of human beings inside the womb, you seem to want to blame everyone else for the very large number of women who end up having abortions because they didn't take precautions while having sex, or after sex for that matter.
I did make a mistake when I was 17-years-old. Myself and my partner behaved irresponsibly and she fell pregnant. Despite our tender ages, we took responsibility for our actions and don't regard our now 24-year-old son as something or someone we "suffered."
So, take it from someone who has been there. That unplanned pregnancy was our fault and no one else's. We were irresponsible, but we were prepared to step up and take responsibility. I wish more people would do the same. Either take responsibility when having sex or be prepared to take responsibility for the life you have created.
Comments
And there it is in a nutshell. If women became pregnant by some other method than having sex, half of the anti-choice mob wouldn't have an opinion. Most of them feel a woman should be punished for having sex.
So the ones that don't manage to avoid it should be punished? Is that really what you're saying?
You think harassing women outside clinics is showing empathy? Is that the male version of empathy, a bullying kind of fellow feeling?
Well the woman is far less likely to die for a start.
i can't help but be reminded of the nonsense Todd Akin spouted.....
I am not blaming contraception, I am merely stating that mistakes happen even when people are trying to avoid them, it is not as black and white as you seem to think. Everyone makes mistakes I don't think a woman should have to pay or it for the rest of her life. It is also a man's responsibilty as well. Also an embryo in the very early stages of pregnancy is not much more than a collection of cells and is still apart of the womans body not a child as you claimed in your earlier post.
Because even if it's legal it's still the most difficult decision a woman will have to make. No woman makes this choice easily. She already suffers enough without "those who disagree" piling it on.
I don't agree with the circumcision of baby boys. Perhaps I should start harassing parents who have it done to their sons? Would you think that's okay too?
I was made to have an abortion 3 years ago by my former partner and parents, and I have to say when I sought out post-abortion counselling afterwards and I was harassed at the door to the BPA with extremely graphic photos I went into the toilets and cried for half an hour. I never went back. In fact I never sought out counselling again and I went through the grieving and guilt process alone and without any help, which was extremely difficult and still affects me to this day.
These protesters do not help anyone, they only distress women who are already in distressing circumstances.
edit: Missed out a word
I'm really sorry you had that experience.
Babies are dehumanised by abortion supporters, called embrios. Even more millions of them are being slaughtered.
I've never heard a pregnant woman refer to the baby inside her as an embrio. It's the baby, or if she knows the sex, the girl or the boy.
If Baby P was killed before he was born, nobody would dcare that he was dead. His mum wouldn't have had to go to prison. The only crime she committed was waiting until after he was born before letting somebody kill him.
"Vicar and Daughter Held Over Newborn Baby Murde" is the title of another thread in this forum. They wouldn't have been held if the baby was murdered before it was born.
Protesters can be the most heartless and cruel pigs going when it comes to certain things.
I suggest you educate yourself. A 12-week-old foetus actually is rather more than a collection of cells.
Not bothering to use contraception, which is the main cause of unwanted pregnancies, is rather more than a mistake. It's an extremely irresponsible and selfish thing to do if you have no intention of giving birth to the child your actions are likely to produce.
Utter bollocks, and congrats on the Goodwin. It's always interesting to see how quickly that particular comparison gets drawn up on threads like this.
oooops you spoke to soon....
It's barely more. It's completely incapable of self-sustained life or even supported life outside of the womb.
No contraception is 100% effective, and even if none was used to punish these so-called irresponsible people with one of the most responsible jobs you can do is pretty nonsensical, don't you think?
It has to be, and should always be, the sole decision of the mother. Even if you hate abortion with every fibre of your being you don't get to decide what other people do with their bodies. Not you, not the state, not even the father.
Besides, banning abortion doesn't make it go away. It just means desperate women seek out illegal and dangerous procedures instead.
You just had to say it didn't you?!
That is not necessary as I already have a lot of knowledge on this topic. Many forms of contraception are not as effectiveas you seem to think. A lot of people do use contraception but still manage to get preganant. I'm presuming if you ever made a mistake you would be prepared to suffer the consequences for the rest of your life.
Well, since you mention punishment (I didn't), there is a case to be made that women who have chosen to have more than one abortion should face some sort of redress, but that's another matter.
All I am saying is that the sheer number of unwanted pregnancies and resulting abortions is very disappointing. I wish that people would stop shouting about their rights and concentrate a little more on their responsibilities when it comes to this.
So many abortions are easily avoidable. I just wish people would be more careful and if they can't manage that, perhaps they might want to consider taking some responsibility for their actions. I did when it happened to me and I am proud of my son.
I'm so sorry to hear that
What about those men who have 'chosen' to get women pregnant multiple times. Should they face some sort of redress too?
My huge sympathy to you, that's awful. 😢
I think a women who admits she is not willing or ready to raise a child is the very definition of responsible. Abstinence is the only form of contraception that is 100% protective against pregnancy, however people should have a right to sexual expression outside of reproduction. What we need to advocate is a healthier, safer approach to sexual activity and allow the right to choose an abortion in the case that accidental pregnancies do occur. Women will do anything to get a termination if they are desperate to get one, so safe legal abortion is the only option really. This point, which I think is the most important, seems get lost a lot in the whole debate.
Aside from your obvious ignorance regarding the development of human beings inside the womb, you seem to want to blame everyone else for the very large number of women who end up having abortions because they didn't take precautions while having sex, or after sex for that matter.
I did make a mistake when I was 17-years-old. Myself and my partner behaved irresponsibly and she fell pregnant. Despite our tender ages, we took responsibility for our actions and don't regard our now 24-year-old son as something or someone we "suffered."
So, take it from someone who has been there. That unplanned pregnancy was our fault and no one else's. We were irresponsible, but we were prepared to step up and take responsibility. I wish more people would do the same. Either take responsibility when having sex or be prepared to take responsibility for the life you have created.