Indeed, which is why the law draws a line in the sand. Cross that line and you face sanction. You can argue that the sanctions aren't strong enough, or even that the line is set too liberally, but that's a different issue.
The problem is though, we all have different ideas where that line should be drawn. Personally, I think it is about right. You can pretty much say what you like until you cross into calling for the murder of others and advocating violence.
Well in that case, I think that the line in the sand has most definitely been crossed.
They should be charged for threatening behaviour, indecent behaviour and hate-crimes. A few months locked up should do it. Let the prisoners know about their actions.
Indecent behaviour?. Are they naked when they hold up signs demanding the death of soldiers?.
If you're a moderate Muslim who does speak out and tries to put the point across that these extremists are nutters and doesn't represent you, or your faith, you are called an apologist.
They don't need to tell us that these 'nutters' don't represent their faith. They need to say it face to face with the nutters themselves.
So lets be glad we aren't in an Islamic country, and we do allow freedom of speech, even if we don't agree with what is being said by some people.
Freedom of speech? How come then, when that bald chap started shouting at the jihadist/mujahadeen wannabes, he got arrested straight away, while the same jihadists got away with shouting vile racist and anti Western chants?
Well in that case, I think that the line in the sand has most definitely been crossed.
I agree, and if anyone (Islamic extremists or those other bunch of Westboro Baptists) demonstrated with such placards and advocated violence here in the UK, then they should face similar sanctions in my eyes.
They don't need to tell us that these 'nutters' don't represent their faith. They need to say it face to face with the nutters themselves.
Agreed, and some do but it doesn't get reported widely. That bomber that was jailed a few weeks ago, it turned out his own mosque had kicked him out for his views and reported them to the police and security authorities. The same mosque runs seminars on extremism, it's causes and why they should turn away from such beliefs as it is anti Islamic. That I only ever saw reported in the local papers up here in Yorkshire, no mention of the seminars was made in the national press at all. It turns out a number of mosques and community leaders run similar events to try and turn the young men away from extremism. One Imam I read about was saying that Islamic Extremism threatens us all, not just non Muslims which is why he believes it has to be tackled in the community as much as possible.
1. Offensive to good taste; unseemly.
2. Offensive to public moral values.
I'd say lots of groups fall under those categories. Islamic extremists, yes, but also groups like the EDL. Yet they're allowed to march and chant hateful abuse. So the same rule should apply to others who do the same.
Freedom of speech? How come then, when that bald chap started shouting at the jihadist/mujahadeen wannabes, he got arrested straight away, while the same jihadists got away with shouting vile racist and anti Western chants?
It's a puzzler, and one of the reasons I feel, why people feel so frustrated with the situation.
Freedom of speech? How come then, when that bald chap started shouting at the jihadist/mujahadeen wannabes, he got arrested straight away, while the same jihadists got away with shouting vile racist and anti Western chants?
If you are on about those nutters in Islam4UK some of them WERE arrested.
Agreed, and some do but it doesn't get reported widely. That bomber that was jailed a few weeks ago, it turned out his own mosque had kicked him out for his views and reported them to the police and security authorities.
All that does is isolate them further and push them into larger groups. What is needed are counter-demonstrations. If the media aren't paying attention then make them pay attention. I don't think moderate muslims realise how deeply serious this issue is.
Agreed, and some do but it doesn't get reported widely. That bomber that was jailed a few weeks ago, it turned out his own mosque had kicked him out for his views and reported them to the police and security authorities. The same mosque runs seminars on extremism, it's causes and why they should turn away from such beliefs as it is anti Islamic. That I only ever saw reported in the local papers up here in Yorkshire, no mention of the seminars was made in the national press at all. It turns out a number of mosques and community leaders run similar events to try and turn the young men away from extremism. One Imam I read about was saying that Islamic Extremism threatens us all, not just non Muslims which is why he believes it has to be tackled in the community as much as possible.
Thank goodness for people like him. That programme was SO depressing and negative, but reading that has cheered me up. Thank you.
One Imam I read about was saying that Islamic Extremism threatens us all, not just non Muslims which is why he believes it has to be tackled in the community as much as possible.
And what if it had been a threat just to non-muslims?
How many? I saw them attacking people with placards on the documentary, didn't see the police touch them though.
I believe three were arrested, it was widely reported at the time.
Plus of course, Islam4UK was banned as terrorist organisation. That arsehole Choudrey now wants to lead a protest march in front of the Whitehouse. Nutter.
I believe three were arrested, it was widely reported at the time.
Plus of course, Islam4UK was banned as terrorist organisation. That arsehole Choudrey now wants to lead a protest march in front of the Whitehouse. Nutter.
So 3 out of how many, about 50 or more who were all shouting their racist slogans, bashing people with their placards and promoting religious hatred? Yet 1 bloke on his own gets dragged away in handcuffs for shouting a few swear words at the extremists? Doesn't seem very fair to me:(
...we do allow freedom of speech, even if we don't agree with what is being said by some people.
We don't though, and that's becoming a big problem.
Many people seem to want to voice their concerns but are afraid of being dubbed 'racist' or whatever other silly expression happens to be in vogue at the time.
That's not freedom of speech.
We don't though, and that's becoming a big problem.
Many people seem to want to voice their concerns but are afraid of being dubbed 'racist' or whatever other silly expression happens to be in vogue at the time.
That's not freedom of speech.
Comments
Well in that case, I think that the line in the sand has most definitely been crossed.
Indecent behaviour?. Are they naked when they hold up signs demanding the death of soldiers?.
They don't need to tell us that these 'nutters' don't represent their faith. They need to say it face to face with the nutters themselves.
Indecent:
1. Offensive to good taste; unseemly.
2. Offensive to public moral values.
I agree, and if anyone (Islamic extremists or those other bunch of Westboro Baptists) demonstrated with such placards and advocated violence here in the UK, then they should face similar sanctions in my eyes.
Not that it makes his views any better.
They do:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1189577/Muslim-extremists-anti-war-protest-driven-members-community.html
Agreed, and some do but it doesn't get reported widely. That bomber that was jailed a few weeks ago, it turned out his own mosque had kicked him out for his views and reported them to the police and security authorities. The same mosque runs seminars on extremism, it's causes and why they should turn away from such beliefs as it is anti Islamic. That I only ever saw reported in the local papers up here in Yorkshire, no mention of the seminars was made in the national press at all. It turns out a number of mosques and community leaders run similar events to try and turn the young men away from extremism. One Imam I read about was saying that Islamic Extremism threatens us all, not just non Muslims which is why he believes it has to be tackled in the community as much as possible.
I'd say lots of groups fall under those categories. Islamic extremists, yes, but also groups like the EDL. Yet they're allowed to march and chant hateful abuse. So the same rule should apply to others who do the same.
Certainly the dictionary definition, but the law in this country sees indecent behaviour as primarily sexual, so it doesn't apply here.
It's a puzzler, and one of the reasons I feel, why people feel so frustrated with the situation.
If you are on about those nutters in Islam4UK some of them WERE arrested.
All that does is isolate them further and push them into larger groups. What is needed are counter-demonstrations. If the media aren't paying attention then make them pay attention. I don't think moderate muslims realise how deeply serious this issue is.
Did you really think the FM used it to mean a sexual offence?
Thank goodness for people like him. That programme was SO depressing and negative, but reading that has cheered me up. Thank you.
No, it was a joke.
How many? I saw them attacking people with placards on the documentary, didn't see the police touch them though.
And what if it had been a threat just to non-muslims?
I have no idea, I am afraid I couldn't read his mind.
I believe three were arrested, it was widely reported at the time.
Plus of course, Islam4UK was banned as terrorist organisation. That arsehole Choudrey now wants to lead a protest march in front of the Whitehouse. Nutter.
So 3 out of how many, about 50 or more who were all shouting their racist slogans, bashing people with their placards and promoting religious hatred? Yet 1 bloke on his own gets dragged away in handcuffs for shouting a few swear words at the extremists? Doesn't seem very fair to me:(
Extremism can thrive if we are frightened to assert the superiority of our secular ideals based in rationality and democracy.
I would personally put them all in prison and throw away the key (until they denounce their ideas)
We don't though, and that's becoming a big problem.
Many people seem to want to voice their concerns but are afraid of being dubbed 'racist' or whatever other silly expression happens to be in vogue at the time.
That's not freedom of speech.
I think 'Islamophobic' is the latest one.