Another Conservative by-election?

smudges dadsmudges dad Posts: 36,989
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http://order-order.com/guy-news-special-david-ruffley-the-voters-verdict/?utm_source=Guy+Fawkes%27+Blog+List&utm_campaign=b0221b9eee-happy+hour&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_547885726c-b0221b9eee-229928853

It looks like David Ruffley from Bury St Edmunds is under pressure to resign. This doesn't come from Labour, but from the Conservative's biggest supporter, Guido. The video is worth watching as a prime example of asking leading questions, and as Guido summarises "You could elect a pig in Bury St Edmunds if it had a blue rosette, and this time it looks like they have".

Bury St Edmunds must be one of the safest seats in the UK, with a Tory sitting there since 1826, so even UKIP don't stand a chance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bury_St_Edmunds_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
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  • flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    He's a dick right. But there's an election soon.
  • northantsgirlnorthantsgirl Posts: 4,663
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    I think the troubled Ruffley will step down from standing again.

    Must admit when I hear the words 'Bury St Edmunds', 'blue rosette' and 'pig' mentioned together I don't think of Ruffley but the bloke who lives in Angel Hill in the town- the ex-Chingford Skinhead who left Essex for Suffolk.
  • smudges dadsmudges dad Posts: 36,989
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    I knew I should have given this thread a sensationalist title like "Tory wife beater hangs on"
    http://order-order.com/2014/07/02/top-tory-cop-in-suffolk-condemns-inexcusable-ruffley/
    Tories are turning on David Ruffley, with two senior local party figures in Suffolk speaking out to condemn him for assaulting his ex-girlfriend. Tim Passmore, who is the Conservative Suffolk Police and Crime Commissioner, says “such behaviour is inexcusable” and suggests that justice has not been done:

    “Those of us in a leadership role in society must do our level best at all times and try to set a good example to others in what we do and how we behave – that includes all politicians regardless of any party affiliation. In my opinion there cannot and must not be any hiding place for the perpetrators of such crimes.”

    Meanwhile Tory Suffolk County Council cabinet member and domestic violence campaigner Jenny Antill has added her voice to the growing disquiet over Ruffley’s violent behaviour:

    “I cannot condone any incident of domestic abuse, regardless of the identity of the perpetrator or his or her position in society or political persuasion.”

    As local Tories begin to distance themselves from their MP, not a single person has publicly defended Ruffley, and he himself has stayed silent

    Do you reckon he'll stay quiet in the background for the rest of the parliament or be forced out for a by-election the Tories are certain to win?
  • StykerStyker Posts: 49,560
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    If its such a safe seat, I think he may as well hang on until the next election and if he stands then its up to the people in that constituency if they are prepared to endorse him with their votes or not.
  • blueisthecolourblueisthecolour Posts: 20,123
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    Styker wrote: »
    If its such a safe seat, I think he may as well hang on until the next election and if he stands then its up to the people in that constituency if they are prepared to endorse him with their votes or not.

    Ah - don't you just love the UK political system:

    Your choice is someone whose policies you completely disagree with or someone who beats women. . . . .
  • BlairdennonBlairdennon Posts: 14,207
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    Ah - don't you just love the UK political system:

    Your choice is someone whose policies you completely disagree with or someone who beats women. . . . .

    That is not the choice though, the party system makes the choices and it is the policies of the parties in the first instance that should be considered, the candidates personal qualities usually come second. Where party policy is not clear then the point of the campaigning before the election is to find out what the candidate believes. The system allows for any number of independents to stand. Seems reasonable. With any vote a compromise is always made, if the compromise cannot countenance a particular candidate then the vote should not be cast for him. I voted Labour for many years despite disagreeing with some of the policies, that is the nature of compromise. Labour assumed I had given them a mandate for every policy.
  • smudges dadsmudges dad Posts: 36,989
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    That is not the choice though, the party system makes the choices and it is the policies of the parties in the first instance that should be considered, the candidates personal qualities usually come second. Where party policy is not clear then the point of the campaigning before the election is to find out what the candidate believes. The system allows for any number of independents to stand. Seems reasonable. With any vote a compromise is always made, if the compromise cannot countenance a particular candidate then the vote should not be cast for him. I voted Labour for many years despite disagreeing with some of the policies, that is the nature of compromise. Labour assumed I had given them a mandate for every policy.

    Agreed. It seems the parties are being very lackadaisical about selecting and keeping candidates , from Kathy Wiles in Angus and seeming half of the UKIP nutjobs, to David Ruffley. It's almost as if the party chiefs are too busy slagging each other off to care about the quality of candidates they have.
  • StykerStyker Posts: 49,560
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    Ah - don't you just love the UK political system:

    Your choice is someone whose policies you completely disagree with or someone who beats women. . . . .

    In general I think we do need to change the voting system As for this situation, people can always stand as independent candidates if the Tories stand by him inc independent Tory candidates.
  • blueisthecolourblueisthecolour Posts: 20,123
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    Styker wrote: »
    In general I think we do need to change the voting system As for this situation, people can always stand as independent candidates if the Tories stand by him inc independent Tory candidates.

    Yes, but the problem with independent candidates are

    1. You can never be sure about what they will do in parliament - the party system provides at least some control over their actions.

    And

    2. The FPTP system means that you are risking splitting the vote, especially if there are more than one independents with the same view. If, for example, two independent conservatives stand against an official candidate you hate, your vote for the independent is more than likely just going to help a Labour or Lib Dem get it.

    I've come round to the opinion that if you're going to have a FPTP system then the only fair method is to either have primary elections or at least some mechanism for ordinary voters to oppose candidate choice. Of course AV would have resolved all of that, but never mind . . . .
  • Jol44Jol44 Posts: 21,048
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    You could elect a turd in Bury St Edmunds if it had a blue rosette.
  • smudges dadsmudges dad Posts: 36,989
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    Jol44 wrote: »
    You could elect a turd in Bury St Edmunds if it had a blue rosette.
    It looks like they did
  • StykerStyker Posts: 49,560
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    Yes, but the problem with independent candidates are

    1. You can never be sure about what they will do in parliament - the party system provides at least some control over their actions.

    And

    2. The FPTP system means that you are risking splitting the vote, especially if there are more than one independents with the same view. If, for example, two independent conservatives stand against an official candidate you hate, your vote for the independent is more than likely just going to help a Labour or Lib Dem get it.

    I've come round to the opinion that if you're going to have a FPTP system then the only fair method is to either have primary elections or at least some mechanism for ordinary voters to oppose candidate choice. Of course AV would have resolved all of that, but never mind . . . .

    Its no different to anyone, party or no party candidate. People need to suss them before they cast their votes, its no that hard. I knew my MP was blagging bigtime when he was seeking to oust the then Labour MP but because he is charismatic, people have let him off on his failures to deliver on local "promises". Stupid I find but I'm just one person, can't do too much about it on my own unless i stand myself.....but I won't.
  • SoppyfanSoppyfan Posts: 29,911
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    Bury St. Edmunds?

    I predict a Tory hold, no matter how much fantasising UKIP or Labour have of winning a seat over there.
  • smudges dadsmudges dad Posts: 36,989
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    http://order-order.com/2014/07/23/gove-dragged-into-ruffley-assault-rap-dean-tells-chief-whip-violent-mp-must-resign/

    The pressure from Guido continues! Will Gove do anything about the Tory who blamed his girlfriend for being hit by him?
    You tried to convince me that in the ‘incident’ back in March there was blame on both sides. When I visited Mrs Wendy Drew in March a day or so after the event and went to hug her as my usual greeting, she winced in obvious pain. She told me as a friend and her priest of the events of the evening that had led to your arrest, and how frightened she had been of your rage and violent behaviour.”
  • Rastus PiefaceRastus Pieface Posts: 4,382
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    political parties should have no room for thugs. he should step down or resign now or at the election. which party he represents is irrelevant, because for all you labour luvvies gloating at this should remember this:

    john prescott - egg - punch.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1oSfHybz9o

    and don't forget, there is also a victim in this.
  • blueisthecolourblueisthecolour Posts: 20,123
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    political parties should have no room for thugs. he should step down or resign now or at the election. which party he represents is irrelevant, because for all you labour luvvies gloating at this should remember this:

    john prescott - egg - punch.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1oSfHybz9o

    and don't forget, there is also a victim in this.

    Yeah, that would be the guy being attacked as he walks down the street.
  • smudges dadsmudges dad Posts: 36,989
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    political parties should have no room for thugs. he should step down or resign now or at the election. which party he represents is irrelevant, because for all you labour luvvies gloating at this should remember this:

    john prescott - egg - punch.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1oSfHybz9o

    and don't forget, there is also a victim in this.
    You are equating a 60+ year old being attacked and defending himself, with someone hitting his girlfriend? Beyond belief! You would have been much better to use Eric Joyce or Bill Walker, one of whom was suspended from the party and the other resigned from the Scottish Parliament.
  • Rastus PiefaceRastus Pieface Posts: 4,382
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    You are equating a 60+ year old being attacked and defending himself, with someone hitting his girlfriend? Beyond belief! You would have been much better to use Eric Joyce or Bill Walker, one of whom was suspended from the party and the other resigned from the Scottish Parliament.

    oh, get off your high horse.

    i am not, i am implying that MP's should relaise they have a responsibility to act in a diginified manner (more so than us mere mortals as they represent us in parliament). and yes, perhaps i could have used eric or bill, but i chose john - the reason being that when miliband got egged, he didn't lash out, where as prescott did.
  • smudges dadsmudges dad Posts: 36,989
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    oh, get off your high horse.

    i am not, i am implying that MP's should relaise they have a responsibility to act in a diginified manner (more so than us mere mortals as they represent us in parliament). and yes, perhaps i could have used eric or bill, but i chose john - the reason being that when miliband got egged, he didn't lash out, where as prescott did.
    OK then, but I think the circumstances were very different in each of the "eggings". My main problem is with the lack of action from the party hierarchy where they do very little about it. It's interesting that a lot of the criticism is coming from the right wing (Guido, Daily Mail, Times etc) and seems to indicate as weak party management as that of Clegg over Lord Reynard and Mike Hancock.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2702160/MPs-grilling-assault-caution-Tory-faces-crisis-meeting-future-anger-grows-attack-partner-argument.html
  • thewilsonthewilson Posts: 1,349
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    oh, get off your high horse.

    i am not, i am implying that MP's should relaise they have a responsibility to act in a diginified manner (more so than us mere mortals as they represent us in parliament). and yes, perhaps i could have used eric or bill, but i chose john - the reason being that when miliband got egged, he didn't lash out, where as prescott did.

    Get off your lame horse. Prescott was 100% justified in defending himself in that particular instance.
  • Rastus PiefaceRastus Pieface Posts: 4,382
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    OK then, but I think the circumstances were very different in each of the "eggings". My main problem is with the lack of action from the party hierarchy where they do very little about it. It's interesting that a lot of the criticism is coming from the right wing (Guido, Daily Mail, Times etc) and seems to indicate as weak party management as that of Clegg over Lord Reynard and Mike Hancock.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2702160/MPs-grilling-assault-caution-Tory-faces-crisis-meeting-future-anger-grows-attack-partner-argument.html

    i agree. i did wonder why the tory party hierarchy were quiet on this, but then again, there are bigger issues in the news at the moment, that will no doubt overshadow what ruffley has done.
  • Rastus PiefaceRastus Pieface Posts: 4,382
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    thewilson wrote: »
    Get off your lame horse. Prescott was 100% justified in defending himself in that particular instance.

    my horse is anything but lame.;-)

    justified or not, he was in a position of responsibility to respond in a more dignified way. no excuses. miliband didn't react the way prescott did.
  • smudges dadsmudges dad Posts: 36,989
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    my horse is anything but lame.;-)

    justified or not, he was in a position of responsibility to respond in a more dignified way. no excuses. miliband didn't react the way prescott did.

    slight diversion...so if someone attacked Cameron with a knife, he should just respond in a dignified manner instead of defending himself? Remember that Prescott made a split second reaction to defend himself from an attacker, he didn't know whether it was an egg, acid or a knife until afterwards.
  • Rastus PiefaceRastus Pieface Posts: 4,382
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    slight diversion...so if someone attacked Cameron with a knife, he should just respond in a dignified manner instead of defending himself? Remember that Prescott made a split second reaction to defend himself from an attacker, he didn't know whether it was an egg, acid or a knife until afterwards.

    no. he should defend himself if possible. you can make excuses for prescott all you want, i have a different opinion to you and others as to what prescott should have done. lets just leave it at that and respect each others opinion over what prescott did.

    as for an assailant coming at cameron (or any mp for that matter) with a knife, that mp has a decision to make. personally i would defend myself.
  • BrokenArrowBrokenArrow Posts: 21,665
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    political parties should have no room for thugs. he should step down or resign now or at the election. which party he represents is irrelevant, because for all you labour luvvies gloating at this should remember this:

    john prescott - egg - punch.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1oSfHybz9o

    and don't forget, there is also a victim in this.

    I don't like John Prescott but I remember clapping when I saw that incident on TV.

    Glad someone has the balls to give these eggers a bloody nose.
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