Surely its no bad thing collaborating with rock/pop artists and getting their music to appeal to fans who like other genres. It's progression, times change and not everyone wants to hear the rap we heard 10years ago so credit to Jay Z for moving with the times
he didnt hold anything he got destroyed and even jay z admitted that himself..
Way to re-write history, baby. Biggie was so outdone at what Jay put down it took him weeks to come back to the studio to add his rhymes.
There is not a single person involved in that record (even the ones who now have nothing but bad words to say about Jay-Z as a person) have ever slighted his skills on Reasonable Doubt and yet here you are doing it from afar.
'how much of biggies rhymes are going to come out of your fat lips'
last year Nas released a collaboration album with Damien Marley and he plans to relaese another solo album later this year titled 'life is good' maybe if you paid less attention to the chart you would know this
If you knew anything at all about my musical taste you would know how silly that statement is...
I don't give a crap about the charts but at the same time I'm not one of "those people" who think just because someone has attained mainstream success that somehow devalues their talent.
I'm a fan of the man's talent & realize that he has adjusted his style to sell records. That for me doesn't take away his skills as a rapper that just also makes him a great businessman in addition to being a great rapper.
And speaking of Reasonable Doubt, Jay stood strong with Biggie a.k.a. The Best Rapper of All Time, so it's insane to say that he was shamed by Foxy Brown (even though I like Foxy Brown).
Jay's lyrics are slightly better than Foxy's (since Foxy was 15), but what about the flow, the style and the context?Foxy is rapping, while Jay-Z is doing some laid-back singing/talking with a flow.That's his style in every song, he rarely switches it up and for me this automatically means that he is not one of the best rappers, becuase he is not rapping 100%.And Jay-Z has nothing to rap about.After his debut, it's all about other rappers that are afraid of him and how he gets money and expensive cars and of course the way he is so successful and on top of the world :rolleyes:
Way to re-write history, baby. Biggie was so outdone at what Jay put down it took him weeks to come back to the studio to add his rhymes.
There is not a single person involved in that record (even the ones who now have nothing but bad words to say about Jay-Z as a person) have ever slighted his skills on Reasonable Doubt and yet here you are doing it from afar.
If you knew anything at all about my musical taste you would know how silly that statement is...
I don't give a crap about the charts but at the same time I'm not one of "those people" who think just because someone has attained mainstream success that somehow devalues their talent.
I'm a fan of the man's talent & realize that he has adjusted his style to sell records. That for me doesn't take away his skills as a rapper that just also makes him a great businessman in addition to being a great rapper.
when i said he got destroyed i was talking about when he went up against Nas not when he rhymed with Biggie.
adjusted his style= married beyonce
he had to start making money when he linked up with her judging by her materialstic songs.
what are you admiring his business skills for..hes a rapper not sir alan sugar
Surely its no bad thing collaborating with rock/pop artists and getting their music to appeal to fans who like other genres. It's progression, times change and not everyone wants to hear the rap we heard 10years ago so credit to Jay Z for moving with the times
I do give credit to Jay-Z for staying relevant but I would never give him props for being a mindblowing rapper, because he isn't.That's the part that I disagree with.It's good that he is still successful, but his music has gone downhills, so I have to react when he's billed to be rap royalty.
when i said he got destroyed i was talking about when he went up against Nas not when he rhymed with Biggie.
adjusted his style= married beyonce
he had to start making money when he linked up with her judging by her materialstic songs.
what are you admiring his business skills for..hes a rapper not sir alan sugar
How long have you been listening to Jay-Z?
Jay's style began evolving from the very hardcore underground sound of Reasonable Doubt years before he ever even met Beyonce.
He went to Puffy to get him to help produce In My Lifetime Vol 1 in '97 because he recognized that he needed to tone down the hardness in order to appeal to a bigger audience. And then he went even further when he changed up his lyrical style & delivery on Vol 2. Hard Knock Life in '98 which was like a bomb going off when it was released. That was when hip hop really began to take off in all directions and when that was released even people who didn't like rap were listening to 'Hard Knock Life (Ghetto Anthem)' because it was cool.
And yes I admire him as a businessman because music (even rap music) doesn't happen in a vacuum. It is called the music "business" for a reason. You have to sell if you want to be relevant, you have to appeal to more than the same couple thousand people if you want to see your genre grow.
Having every rapper being MC Ultra Hard putting out 4 song EPs on cassette tapes recorded in their mama's basement may be heaven for the hip hop purists out there but it doesn't do a hell of a lot for rap as a whole.
Jay's lyrics are slightly better than Foxy's (since Foxy was 15), but what about the flow, the style and the context?Foxy is rapping, while Jay-Z is doing some laid-back singing/talking with a flow.That's his style in every song, he rarely switches it up and for me this automatically means that he is not one of the best rappers, becuase he is not rapping 100%.And Jay-Z has nothing to rap about.After his debut, it's all about other rappers that are afraid of him and how he gets money and expensive cars and of course the way he is so successful and on top of the world :rolleyes:
His style became more accessible & I get that you don't like that. But what does "he is not rapping 100%" mean? I don't get what you're saying there.
And in regards to what his rhymes are about would you really consider that to be a valid criticism when the vast majority of rap songs (even some of the best ever) have been about money, cars & hoes?
I do give credit to Jay-Z for staying relevant but I would never give him props for being a mindblowing rapper, because he isn't.That's the part that I disagree with.It's good that he is still successful, but his music has gone downhills, so I have to react when he's billed to be rap royalty.
His style became more accessible & I get that you don't like that. But what does "he is not rapping 100%" mean? I don't get what you're saying there.
It's all about the flow, the voice and maybe the intonation too.I cannot explain it precisely, but he seems to do a mixture of singing/grooving/talking/rapping instead of clear rapping.It's like less singing and more rapping than Nelly but more singing and less rapping than Method Man and Nas for example.Jay-Z has stopped rapping.
And in regards to what his rhymes are about would you really consider that to be a valid criticism when the vast majority of rap songs (even some of the best ever) have been about money, cars & hoes?
Yes, but someone (maybe you, I don't remember) said that he is not overrated at all, that noone can face him and that Biggie felt overwhelmed by what Jay-Z rapped for their collaboration.If someone tries to make Jay-Z out to be some kind of rap royalty, then he has to have something in his back catalogue to justify such claims and not just lyrical context that Soulja Boy talks about too.
Absolutely love this album! It all flows rather well together much like MBDTF - wouldn't put it completely on par with that album so far but only given it a couple of listens so that may change when I get more accustomed with it.
Jay's style began evolving from the very hardcore underground sound of Reasonable Doubt years before he ever even met Beyonce.
He went to Puffy to get him to help produce In My Lifetime Vol 1 in '97 because he recognized that he needed to tone down the hardness in order to appeal to a bigger audience. And then he went even further when he changed up his lyrical style & delivery on Vol 2. Hard Knock Life in '98 which was like a bomb going off when it was released. That was when hip hop really began to take off in all directions and when that was released even people who didn't like rap were listening to 'Hard Knock Life (Ghetto Anthem)' because it was cool.
And yes I admire him as a businessman because music (even rap music) doesn't happen in a vacuum. It is called the music "business" for a reason. You have to sell if you want to be relevant, you have to appeal to more than the same couple thousand people if you want to see your genre grow.
Having every rapper being MC Ultra Hard putting out 4 song EPs on cassette tapes recorded in their mama's basement may be heaven for the hip hop purists out there but it doesn't do a hell of a lot for rap as a whole.
I first heard Jay z on big daddy kanes album ' daddys home'
i cant see how jayz has helped the genre grow?
by getting in the charts with lyrics of little substance and a bad delivery..you must be a big fan of MC hammer as well.
wu tang clan managed to get into the charts, sell a load of records and create an empire without a hook from annie and there wife standing beside them.
I first heard Jay z on big daddy kanes album ' daddys home'
i cant see how jayz has helped the genre grow?
by getting in the charts with lyrics of little substance and a bad delivery..you must be a big fan of MC hammer as well.
wu tang clan managed to get into the charts, sell a load of records and create an empire without a hook from annie and there wife standing beside them.
And I don't even hate Jay-Z.He's successful and he kept hip hop in the mainstream (even if he misrepresented hip hop completely) but people are all of a sudden trying to proclaim him the king of hip hop :eek: PLEASE!
His music is cool, nothing special, nothing breathtaking, nothing lifechanging, but still feel good music with catchy hooks, but his contribution is not that vast.And I have no respect for him because he's a follower, not a leader (all upon Diddy's crotch to get him to the mainstream)
Never got this hate for Jay-Z for simply staying relevant. People look at him as though he is Soulja Boy or Flo Rida but he still kills verses and is a brilliant rapper. Listen to his verse on So Appalled and tell me it isn't great. Of course Nas is one of the greatest and Illmatic is my favourite rap album ever but he has been too inconsistent over the years. That being said Distant Relatives was quality and hopefully he keeps up that form on his next solo LP.
Never got this hate for Jay-Z for simply staying relevant. People look at him as though he is Soulja Boy or Flo Rida but he still kills verses and is a brilliant rapper. Listen to his verse on So Appalled and tell me it isn't great. Of course Nas is one of the greatest and Illmatic is my favourite rap album ever but he has been too inconsistent over the years. That being said Distant Relatives was quality and hopefully he keeps up that form on his next solo LP.
As I said before, I don't care whether Jay-Z does commercial stuff, I don't mind his little hooks for the radio.I just want great or at least decent verses and his material are worthless.If he could deliver hot verses, I would have no problem and neither would anybody else.Commercial rap = pointless horrible verses and repetitive lyrical context...
To all of you saying this isn't true hip hop etc. You all know that hip hop existed before the whole gangster culture?
Kanye is just trying to move hip hop forward from a time where they use the same and similar "G-Funk" beats and rapped about ****ing "hoes" and rebelling against the police. When rappers were rapping about how gangster they were Kanye was rapping about Jesus, his worries about the US and other controversial issues.
Jay-Z is great in his own right, no he might not be the best but nobody can deny he's a good rapper.
And before any "this is mainstream" or "they're selling out" accusations come flying onto this thread... Otis hasn't even made the UK Top 40, Monster from MBDTF didn't even make the UK Top 100 and both of these artists have only ever had 1 UK number 1. They're clearly not selling out, they're making music that their fans want to here regardless of weather it's going to perform in the charts.
People need to let go and realise that hip hop can be more than rapping about how G you are and using the same old beats over and over again.
Wow this debuts at number 1 in America with 426,661 copies becoming Jay Z's 12th number 1 album and Kanye's 5th, and it was only a digital release I think.
To all of you saying this isn't true hip hop etc. You all know that hip hop existed before the whole gangster culture?
Kanye is just trying to move hip hop forward from a time where they use the same and similar "G-Funk" beats and rapped about ****ing "hoes" and rebelling against the police. When rappers were rapping about how gangster they were Kanye was rapping about Jesus, his worries about the US and other controversial issues.
Jay-Z is great in his own right, no he might not be the best but nobody can deny he's a good rapper.
And before any "this is mainstream" or "they're selling out" accusations come flying onto this thread... Otis hasn't even made the UK Top 40, Monster from MBDTF didn't even make the UK Top 100 and both of these artists have only ever had 1 UK number 1. They're clearly not selling out, they're making music that their fans want to here regardless of weather it's going to perform in the charts.
People need to let go and realise that hip hop can be more than rapping about how G you are and using the same old beats over and over again.
My concern is their style, which is not rapping, it's talking!And if you think that all rappers have been talking about how gangstas they are apart from Kanye, you need to listen to more hip hop music.Their lyrics are not their problem, but their delivery is a tragic mess.
('Otis' did not chart because it was released 1 week before the album, so why would anyone buy it??And 'Monster' was officially released months after it premiered online, so of course it flopped)
no matter where monster started it was such a tune . I don't really like this album compared to some of kanye and Jay-z's earlier stuff. the only song I really like is Otis and even then it got old quickly.
Comments
Way to re-write history, baby. Biggie was so outdone at what Jay put down it took him weeks to come back to the studio to add his rhymes.
There is not a single person involved in that record (even the ones who now have nothing but bad words to say about Jay-Z as a person) have ever slighted his skills on Reasonable Doubt and yet here you are doing it from afar.
If you knew anything at all about my musical taste you would know how silly that statement is...
I don't give a crap about the charts but at the same time I'm not one of "those people" who think just because someone has attained mainstream success that somehow devalues their talent.
I'm a fan of the man's talent & realize that he has adjusted his style to sell records. That for me doesn't take away his skills as a rapper that just also makes him a great businessman in addition to being a great rapper.
Are you sure???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljdzX7a4_Xs
Jay's lyrics are slightly better than Foxy's (since Foxy was 15), but what about the flow, the style and the context?Foxy is rapping, while Jay-Z is doing some laid-back singing/talking with a flow.That's his style in every song, he rarely switches it up and for me this automatically means that he is not one of the best rappers, becuase he is not rapping 100%.And Jay-Z has nothing to rap about.After his debut, it's all about other rappers that are afraid of him and how he gets money and expensive cars and of course the way he is so successful and on top of the world :rolleyes:
when i said he got destroyed i was talking about when he went up against Nas not when he rhymed with Biggie.
adjusted his style= married beyonce
he had to start making money when he linked up with her judging by her materialstic songs.
what are you admiring his business skills for..hes a rapper not sir alan sugar
I do give credit to Jay-Z for staying relevant but I would never give him props for being a mindblowing rapper, because he isn't.That's the part that I disagree with.It's good that he is still successful, but his music has gone downhills, so I have to react when he's billed to be rap royalty.
How long have you been listening to Jay-Z?
Jay's style began evolving from the very hardcore underground sound of Reasonable Doubt years before he ever even met Beyonce.
He went to Puffy to get him to help produce In My Lifetime Vol 1 in '97 because he recognized that he needed to tone down the hardness in order to appeal to a bigger audience. And then he went even further when he changed up his lyrical style & delivery on Vol 2. Hard Knock Life in '98 which was like a bomb going off when it was released. That was when hip hop really began to take off in all directions and when that was released even people who didn't like rap were listening to 'Hard Knock Life (Ghetto Anthem)' because it was cool.
And yes I admire him as a businessman because music (even rap music) doesn't happen in a vacuum. It is called the music "business" for a reason. You have to sell if you want to be relevant, you have to appeal to more than the same couple thousand people if you want to see your genre grow.
Having every rapper being MC Ultra Hard putting out 4 song EPs on cassette tapes recorded in their mama's basement may be heaven for the hip hop purists out there but it doesn't do a hell of a lot for rap as a whole.
His style became more accessible & I get that you don't like that. But what does "he is not rapping 100%" mean? I don't get what you're saying there.
And in regards to what his rhymes are about would you really consider that to be a valid criticism when the vast majority of rap songs (even some of the best ever) have been about money, cars & hoes?
agreed
I first heard Jay z on big daddy kanes album ' daddys home'
i cant see how jayz has helped the genre grow?
by getting in the charts with lyrics of little substance and a bad delivery..you must be a big fan of MC hammer as well.
wu tang clan managed to get into the charts, sell a load of records and create an empire without a hook from annie and there wife standing beside them.
THANK YOU!!!
His music is cool, nothing special, nothing breathtaking, nothing lifechanging, but still feel good music with catchy hooks, but his contribution is not that vast.And I have no respect for him because he's a follower, not a leader (all upon Diddy's crotch to get him to the mainstream)
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1668760/jay-z-kanye-west-otis-music-video-premiere.jhtml
Kanye is just trying to move hip hop forward from a time where they use the same and similar "G-Funk" beats and rapped about ****ing "hoes" and rebelling against the police. When rappers were rapping about how gangster they were Kanye was rapping about Jesus, his worries about the US and other controversial issues.
Jay-Z is great in his own right, no he might not be the best but nobody can deny he's a good rapper.
And before any "this is mainstream" or "they're selling out" accusations come flying onto this thread... Otis hasn't even made the UK Top 40, Monster from MBDTF didn't even make the UK Top 100 and both of these artists have only ever had 1 UK number 1. They're clearly not selling out, they're making music that their fans want to here regardless of weather it's going to perform in the charts.
People need to let go and realise that hip hop can be more than rapping about how G you are and using the same old beats over and over again.
('Otis' did not chart because it was released 1 week before the album, so why would anyone buy it??And 'Monster' was officially released months after it premiered online, so of course it flopped)
For anyone who is interested, here is Ghostface Killah's review, it basically sums it up for me.
http://www.radioplanet.tv/ghostface-reviews-watch-the-throne/