Jeremy Forrest guilty of child abduction

15960626465113

Comments

  • Welsh-ladWelsh-lad Posts: 51,908
    Forum Member
    nanscombe wrote: »
    It could also highlight that one of the attractions of a young girl is that she has not yet had time to become life hardened, suspicious and cynical.

    Who would want to date a woman who watches every move you make, or questions every word you say, just looking for a reason to put you down.

    Urgh - this post makes me feel queasy.

    Could you *get* more creepy?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,916
    Forum Member
    nanscombe wrote: »
    I wonder if that's also why some women go for toy boys?

    They look good and can be easily be manipulated.

    It's usually the other way round. The women want the advancing age to be curtailed with the thought that a young bloke wants her, but equally she can't deal with the thought that he is out with his mates on a Friday night and that why is he with a shrivelled up old crone like her when he will be meeting loads of younger, fitter women down the pub.
  • irishguyirishguy Posts: 22,172
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    nanscombe wrote: »
    It could also highlight that one of the attractions of a young girl is that she has not yet had time to become life hardened, suspicious and cynical.

    Who would want to date a woman who watches every move you make, or questions every word you say, just looking for a reason to put you down.

    Or more likely the case would be that most guys over 25 would rather date a confident, mature, capable and experienced woman with a good career than, say, a girl at university whose life is all lectures, homework and boozing.
  • aggsaggs Posts: 29,458
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    nanscombe wrote: »
    It could also highlight that one of the attractions of a young girl is that she has not yet had time to become life hardened, suspicious and cynical.

    Who would want to date a woman who watches every move you make, or questions every word you say, just looking for a reason to put you down.

    But something makes young girls life hardened, suspicious and cynical.

    The fact that you can't trust your partner, because at some point the penny drops that if a person can lie to their employers, lie to one wife, lie to your family, lie to you, lie to their family, lie to the Police, scattershot blame around with an 'I know it's kinda my fault bbbbuuuuutttt', once - they can do it again. What on earth is there there to make a person uneasy?

    If the <presumably-soon-to-be-ex> Mrs Forrest finds herself with trust issues and unwilling to enter into another relationship you wouldn't need to be a psychologist to have an idea why.
  • nanscombenanscombe Posts: 16,588
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Welsh-lad wrote: »
    Urgh - this post makes me feel queasy.

    Could you *get* more creepy?

    Why? It's only a question / observation.
    irishguy wrote: »
    Or more likely the case would be that most guys over 25 would rather date a confident, mature, capable and experienced woman with a good career than, say, a girl at university whose life is all lectures, homework and boozing.

    But when does confident and mature become un-trusting and manipulative. Who'd want to be in a relationship where their partner doesn't trust them?
  • MuggsyMuggsy Posts: 19,251
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    nanscombe wrote: »
    But when does confident and mature become un-trusting and manipulative. Who'd want to be in a relationship where their partner doesn't trust them?

    Are you talking about pathological jealousy here, or the very natural reaction of somebody who has had their trust in another shattered by betrayal?
  • irishguyirishguy Posts: 22,172
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    nanscombe wrote: »
    Why? It's only a question / observation.



    But when does confident and mature become un-trusting and manipulative. Who'd want to be in a relationship where their partner doesn't trust them?

    Can't say I've dated many untrusting, manipulative, hardened women,,, There are plenty out there that aren't and will give you a lot less grief than someone just out of school who can be just as paranoid about being in a relationship with a large age difference
  • Paul237Paul237 Posts: 8,654
    Forum Member
    irishguy wrote: »
    Or more likely the case would be that most guys over 25 would rather date a confident, mature, capable and experienced woman with a good career than, say, a girl at university whose life is all lectures, homework and boozing.

    If that were true (i.e."most guys") then why is it far more common for a guy to have a younger girlfriend?
  • nanscombenanscombe Posts: 16,588
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Muggsy wrote: »
    Are you talking about pathological jealousy here, or the very natural reaction of somebody who has had their trust in another shattered by betrayal?

    I must admit that if I started seeing a woman who constantly viewed me with suspicion and took every opportunity to criticise others (men in general) I wouldn't want to be around for very long, or get too close.

    I guess it depends when they turn from someone who simply feels hurt and betrayed to a vengeful psychopath. :eek:

    Or maybe I just don't seem to attract the right type. :D
  • irishguyirishguy Posts: 22,172
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Paul237 wrote: »
    If that were true (i.e."most guys") then why is it far more common for a guy to have a younger girlfriend?

    Bu I bet that most people have less than 10 years difference than anyone they've dated for a considerable amount of time.
  • Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Dare_Allan wrote: »
    And this is the strange thing. The entire point of an Interpretive justice system (as opposed to the codified systems in much of europe) is that the courts are supposed to account for motivation and circumstance. Yet on the issue of underage sex, the courts refuse to. While the european system actually does. A very real irony and one that destroys lives.

    Very few cases of under age sex get to court, because circumstances are taken into account.

    This case is exceptional, because of the grave abuse of authority by a teacher.
  • Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Dare_Allan wrote: »
    The actions and consequences aren't being compared.

    The way English Law defines responsibility has been set - by precedent - which is how English Law works. Thomson/Venables sets a precedent that a 10yo is criminally responsible and capable of making decisions with regards to ending life of another person. The same legal system says a 15yo is property of her parents and has no decision making capacity as regards sex.

    This appears to be contradictory.

    The 10 year age of criminal responsibility had ben set long before this case.

    Statutory law dictates the age at which a young person can have sex, and the reasoning for that is to safeguard young people.

    This case is much more than that though.

    Although the term property has been used to describe a child on this forum, children are not longer defined as property. Parents have a duty of care over them, and are responsible for them.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,368
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    What are the posters who claim he was not predatory basing that opinion on.

    The Judges statement makes it sound like he was predatory, that he abused his position of trust and groomed her for sex and the sentence for sexual activity is having regard to the plea of guilty at the top end of the sentencing guidelines.
    ...you chose to ignore the cardinal rule of teaching - that you should do so in an environment that was utterly safe and with no hidden agendas...

    ...When you first started teaching the girl in September 2011, you noticed her, and she responded to your care and concern about difficulties she was having...

    ...I have seen nothing in the evidence which shows that at any stage you tried to provide proper boundaries between yourself and her, to discourage her, or let other staff deal with the matter appropriately

    Indeed all the evidence shows that you encouraged her infatuation and provided opportunities for her to communicate with you and be alone with you...

    ...It was evident to others who went on the school trip to Los Angeles that by then she had become infatuated with you. She told you of her eating disorder and other insecurities...

    ...By her 15th birthday any thought of waiting until she was 16 had been abandoned, if ever that had been the plan, and you embarked upon a full sexual relationship soon after. Texts that we have heard of show that you were active in driving that relationship forward...

    ...I am satisfied that you deceived her too...

    ...It was your duty as a teacher to stop her infatuation, not to fuel it. Your research into what might happen to you, if caught, is proof of the deliberate nature of your behaviour...

    ...You even complained that the rumours that were circulating were lies by the girl. You lied to her mother and complained that the girl's silence in relation to those false rumours were ruining your career and that she was harassing you. She felt mortified that her daughter was behaving in that way...

    ...You have contested the abduction charge raising a spurious defence, so that she had to give evidence, evidence very different in content from her original account and designed to support it. She had clearly received assistance in relation to what she should say...

    ...Where is that genuine care for her welfare that is the hallmark of a truly loving relationship?...

    ...Your behaviour over this period had been motivated by self interest...

    ...prevent you being able to damage other vulnerable children...
  • Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    I think some look at his like an old fashioned love story that the authorities have trampled on, rather than looking at the facts, and the Judges statement is certainly worthy of reading.
  • academiaacademia Posts: 18,225
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    What about if an 18 year old has sex with a 15 year old ?.

    I'd prosecute him. After all the scandals this year - Saville, the Muslim groomers, Hall - all that sleazy crew it is obvious that the law must be more rigorous in dealing with breaches of age of consent law. Perhaps not to the extent of five years imprisonment though.
    But the Forrest case goes beyond young people's daftness. . He's a good deal older than 18. He was her teacher. His grooming went on for some time. He took her out of the country when they were found out in an effort to avoid prosecution.
    Now somehow or other he has his sister rallying round (what kind of woman is she to condone her sleazy brother? May she grow up to have daughters and worry about them); what kind of man is her father - he wants to shake Forrest's hand? Mine would have ripped his head off); and the authorities - they're going to let her visit Forrest in prison? What are they thinking of by allowing him to keep his influence over her?

    It seems to me Forrest has got everyone dancing to his tune. He's a very manipulative man.
  • wear thefoxhatwear thefoxhat Posts: 3,753
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I thought Forrest didn't want to leave, but the girl said she was going no matter what and threatened suicide if he didn't go with her?
  • aggsaggs Posts: 29,458
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    academia wrote: »
    I'd prosecute him. After all the scandals this year - Saville, the Muslim groomers, Hall - all that sleazy crew it is obvious that the law must be more rigorous in dealing with breaches of age of consent law. Perhaps not to the extent of five years imprisonment though.
    But the Forrest case goes beyond young people's daftness. . He's a good deal older than 18. He was her teacher. His grooming went on for some time. He took her out of the country when they were found out in an effort to avoid prosecution.
    Now somehow or other he has his sister rallying round (what kind of woman is she to condone her sleazy brother? May she grow up to have daughters and worry about them); what kind of man is her father - he wants to shake Forrest's hand? Mine would have ripped his head off); and the authorities - they're going to let her visit Forrest in prison? What are they thinking of by allowing him to keep his influence over her?

    It seems to me Forrest has got everyone dancing to his tune. He's a very manipulative man.

    I can understand his sister wanting to defend him - its just the way they have chosen to go about it that I find a bit niggling, with all the 'buts'.

    I know he is a bit to blame, but his wife didn't understand him.
    I know he was wrong, but the school should have sorted it sooner.
    I know he didn't act properly but the Police should have done something.

    According to the article his sister has 3 daughters, which is where her 'but' thinking becomes a bit more muddled.

    I can also see why she is going to be allowed to see him. All refusing would do would let her built it up into even more hearts and flowers and star crossed romance.

    I do think that they will be together when he is released and that will be when the reality hits. She will still be a young girl, he will be in his mid 30's with jail time and more than likely unable to find work. Real life will come crashing in - and I get the impression that its real life he struggles with.
  • SaddlerSteveSaddlerSteve Posts: 4,325
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I thought Forrest didn't want to leave, but the girl said she was going no matter what and threatened suicide if he didn't go with her?

    That was the cock and bull story that was presented in court but it wasn't believed.
  • benjaminibenjamini Posts: 32,066
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I thought Forrest didn't want to leave, but the girl said she was going no matter what and threatened suicide if he didn't go with her?

    Up and until the police got her mobile and saw the extent of the sexual activity, he had a very sudden change of heart knowing he faced prison.
  • JakobjoeJakobjoe Posts: 8,235
    Forum Member
    now the papers say they are gonna get married. .maybe they can sell their story and make some cash as well to set them up when he gets out ...if they make a go of it then good luck to them
  • benjaminibenjamini Posts: 32,066
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    aggs wrote: »
    I can understand his sister wanting to defend him - its just the way they have chosen to go about it that I find a bit niggling, with all the 'buts'.

    I know he is a bit to blame, but his wife didn't understand him.
    I know he was wrong, but the school should have sorted it sooner.
    I know he didn't act properly but the Police should have done something.

    According to the article his sister has 3 daughters, which is where her 'but' thinking becomes a bit more muddled.

    I can also see why she is going to be allowed to see him. All refusing would do would let her built it up into even more hearts and flowers and star crossed romance.

    I do think that they will be together when he is released and that will be when the reality hits. She will still be a young girl, he will be in his mid 30's with jail time and more than likely unable to find work. Real life will come crashing in - and I get the impression that its real life he struggles with.

    His wife is not alone in not understanding him, most right thinking people dont understand him either!
  • MuggsyMuggsy Posts: 19,251
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    academia wrote: »
    I'd prosecute him. After all the scandals this year - Saville, the Muslim groomers, Hall - all that sleazy crew it is obvious that the law must be more rigorous in dealing with breaches of age of consent law.

    What about an 18 year old her having sex with a 15 year old boy?
  • Bus Stop2012Bus Stop2012 Posts: 5,624
    Forum Member
    Jakobjoe wrote: »
    now the papers say they are gonna get married. .maybe they can sell their story and make some cash as well to set them up when he gets out ...if they make a go of it then good luck to them

    I just hope that no pressure is put on her by him or his family to wait for him. Most of us wouldn't care to see our daughters wasting what ought to be wonderful years of their lives languishing in wait for a middle aged man with no money or prospects and a serious criminal record.
  • MoonyMoony Posts: 15,093
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    academia wrote: »
    I'd prosecute him.

    Why have you assumed its a him? The poster you replied to didn't specify the sex of the 18 year old.
  • CryolemonCryolemon Posts: 8,670
    Forum Member
    topcat3 wrote: »
    you are disgusting. It sounds like you may be a danger to children

    Accusing someone of being a paedophile without evidence is libel.
    This thread has highlighted to me just how many paedophiles there are out there! They can dress it up all they like and bang on about consent etc but the fact remains........age 16 is the age of consent, if you have sex with someone under the age of consent and you are an adult then you are a paedophile pure and simple. I fear for the future with all the excusers on here <shudders>

    There are better ways to argue than to say that anyone who disagrees is an apologist.
    Muggsy wrote: »
    What about an 18 year old her having sex with a 15 year old boy?

    Or indeed a lesbian or gay couple?
Sign In or Register to comment.