Yes!! (Although I'm still 'sort of' watching on a "its so bad it must get good/interesting at some point" basis, But, I'm now more listening to JC Chasez music in the background http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZPhdfezWzU
...far more enjoyable!
He comes across as a very "not likeable" person, when ever anyone trys to give him an alternative reason as to why he is gay he is just not happy, he is very selfish and a bit arrogant, to be honest with you I simply do not care about him or the situation He comes across as very narcistic.
the 'ex-girlfriend' hardly gave a big endorsement that he wasn't gay before...she seemed like she was being polite and afraid to discuss the Elephant in the room to me.
I'm with his boyfriend on this one. I'm pretty sure the accident triggered the dormant feelings within him. Or it shocked him into being true to himself. It wasn't a person that made him realise his feelings but an event.
Also his story is incredibly inconsistent. He says he can't remember things but he remembers that the girl made him take part in the play or he remembers what it was like to fancy girls and how strange it was to then fancy guys. If it really did "make him gay" you'd imagine he'd try and fight against it? But instead everything changes - style, sexuality, career - like he'd wanted to do all of that all along.
It's almost like he wants an excuse for coming out because he couldn't do it by himself. He wants something to blame that he can distance himself from. It's quite sad really.
I don't believe that so many people in his life would turn their back on him after him experiencing a stroke. He must have done something to alienate all those people - not necessarily relating to him perhaps playing up to his 'new identity'.
Fact is, nobody in this thread knows anywhere near enough about the guy or indeed the human brain to say he's lying
I've seen so many people on this forum talk about how it's been proven that sexuality is something you're born with, when the reality is that a) it hasn't, and b) the study on identical twins proved that nurture plays at least an equal role as nature
Fact is, nobody in this thread knows anywhere near enough about the guy or indeed the human brain to say he's lying
I've seen so many people on this forum talk about how it's been proven that sexuality is something you're born with, when the reality is that a) it hasn't, and b) the study on identical twins proved that nurture plays at least an equal role as nature
No the twin studies give extra credence to the theory that it's genetic.
A new study of twins provides the strongest evidence yet that homosexuality has a genetic basis, researchers say, though they say other factors like social conditioning may be important.
The study, published in the December issue of The Archives of General Psychiatry, adds to evidence that sexual orientation does not result from a maladjustment or moral defect, one author said.
"We found 52 percent of identical twin brothers of gay men also were gay, compared with 22 percent of fraternal twins, compared with 11 percent of genetically unrelated brothers," said J. Michael Bailey, an assistant professor of psychology at Northwestern University in Evanston, "which is exactly the kind of pattern you would want to see if something genetic were going on." By "unrelated," Dr. Bailey was referring to brothers by adoption.
"The genetically most similar brothers were also the ones most likely to be gay, by a large margin," he added.
The study examined 56 identical twins, 54 fraternal twins and 57 adoptive brothers recruited through advertisements in gay-interest publications.
If sexuality was solely genetic both identical twins would always be gay, if one was
It's a mixture of biological conditions in the womb, psychological development, and social interactions. Hence why some people can be born with 'the gay gene' (though it's not one gene) and still grow up to be heterosexual
From a purely speculative point of view, i think this chap may have been born with 'the gay gene' but psychologically developed as a heterosexual (this doesn't mean he was in denial).
If sexuality was solely genetic both identical twins would always be gay, if one was
It's a mixture of biological conditions in the womb, psychological development, and social interactions. Hence why some people can be born with 'the gay gene' (though it's not one gene) and still grow up to be heterosexual
No that's not true. Twins can have different hormone levels. I'm not arguing because you are clearly an expert and have made your mind up.
btw, that Dr Bailey in your study has previous for claiming that bisexual males are all in denial, and that transsexuals are homosexuals in denial
Straight men are gays in denial
i think the bi-sexual thing though is to at least some degree the 'wanting to have normal life for sake of parents/family'
A few bisexual people I know/have known have been essentially 'straight' to their parents e.g have introduced girlfriends too them etc, but its clear when they're away from that environment, all they want is other men.
I think, whilst bisexuality clearly is a sexuality, a fair few use it as a cloak of convenience. So they can be 'gay' but still to their parents and family put on the pretense of being 'normal'
I can't sleep tonight so I'm watching this on iplayer.
I'm quite open minded about the factors that might affect what decides our sexual orientation and I don't think I have a fixed view but this documentary is ridiculous so far.
"he used to work in a bank, live for sport and was the life and soul of any party, now he is a gay hairdresser with a love for beauty therapies and a love for Rosé wine"
Yes because clearly no gay people work in banks or like sport. And clearly if you are male hairdresser you are gay or closeted.
Any straight men here like rosé wine? Perhaps you too are in the closet :rolleyes:
i think the bi-sexual thing though is to at least some degree the 'wanting to have normal life for sake of parents/family'
A few bisexual people I know/have known have been essentially 'straight' to their parents e.g have introduced girlfriends too them etc, but its clear when they're away from that environment, all they want is other men.
I think, whilst bisexuality clearly is a sexuality, a fair few use it as a cloak of convenience. So they can be 'gay' but still to their parents and family put on the pretense of being 'normal'
I don't think you should post so blasé about it, believe me it is not as simple as living a 'straight life' to keep up appearances whilst secretly craving nothing but male private parts.
Went in with an open mind but came out with a strong feeling that something isn’t at all right with this story.
People can have personality changes after a stroke, but it’s extremely misguided to constantly relate certain changes (i.e. becoming a hairdresser, or a voice “going softer”) to being gay, or imply that previous traits (i.e. playing sports or dressing “like a chav”) are things indicative of being straight. A good example was when his friend said:
“If you’d seen Chris before when he was at school, you’d have never in a million years thought he was gay. Never. If you’d stood him up with nine other boys and had to point out who you thought would be the least gay it would be Chris.”
He also said “when I’m looking at these photos I don’t think anyone would agree that there’s a gay person here. Definitely not. I’m convinced more than ever looking at these photos the stroke did turn me gay because there is no way that I was gay before. I have photos as proof.”
These are clearly ridiculous things to say, yet this old-fashioned, prejudice notion that you can “see” who is gay was an undercurrent throughout the entire programme. Towards the end he said “it is nice for someone like you who knew me before the stroke to say “you know what, I never thought you were gay”. That’s really reassuring”, again implying it’s somehow possible to externally detect who is or isn’t gay. And why is he so “reassured” by the notion that he wasn’t gay (or didn’t “look gay”) until after his stroke, in the first place?
Chris also said:
“If I had not done the forward role, I would not be who I am now, and I prefer who I am now”
So why would he prefer being who he is now, especially when he claims not to remember anything from before? It seems obvious to me that he prefers being who he is now (despite losing his family in the process!) because it’s very much who he always wanted to be. His friend also said “you’re still the same Chris as you were in school”, so not everyone in his life has noticed a dramatic change.
The show said that his mother is the person who suggested his “changes” were caused by the stroke, and that he was left "isolated" after coming out. I think it’s likely that his family wanted to believe he became gay because of the stroke, and have rejected him because of his subsequent lifestyle changes. A situation like that certainly gives the poor lad all the incentive he would need to lie to himself and the world about why he is the way he is, regardless of whether the stroke affected his sexuality.
At one point he said “I worry then that I’ve always had these feelings, and that maybe I just never knew them before”. My question would be why does that “worry” him? He obviously has serious issues with the idea that he was gay/had an underlying predisposition towards being gay prior to his stroke (which is strange considering that he claims to be unable to remember very much - if he can't remember, and he's happy as he is, why does he care?). His angry reaction to the scientist’s results was consistent with that, too.
Seems like a troubled young man to me. Feel sad for him.
People can have personality changes after a stroke, but it’s extremely misguided to constantly relate certain changes Seems like a troubled young man to me. Feel sad for him.
Quite.
I found him a contradiction. One one hand he seemed fairly level headed and intelligent young man, and on the other a deluded nonce.
There were many things that didn't add up. He couldn't remember his life pre stroke when inconvenient, but on other occasions he could. He said to the girl "hah, you made me do that, but I did enjoy the time" followed quickly by "oh, but I can't remember much". Maybe all these girls he bedded are figments of his imagination. What made me angry was the ridiculous assumption that because he wasn't a campy, botox injecting pansy with a stupid haircut before the stroke, he couldn;t have been gay. Cos we all look like that, don't we? I've been out since 17, and I've always resembled the "old" Chris.
Very annoying programme, and enough to frighten off a large chunk of young gay lads who would be watching. If I'd thought I was going to turn out like that, I'd have sought electro-therapy treatment
If sexuality was solely genetic both identical twins would always be gay, if one was
It's a mixture of biological conditions in the womb, psychological development, and social interactions. Hence why some people can be born with 'the gay gene' (though it's not one gene) and still grow up to be heterosexual
From a purely speculative point of view, i think this chap may have been born with 'the gay gene' but psychologically developed as a heterosexual (this doesn't mean he was in denial).
No, this is wrong.
With twins it can be seen that one twin can take on different levels of hormones from the mother. The levels an be thrown off because of the fact that there are two of them.
It depends on which twin gets more or less testosterone and oestrogen.
“If you’d seen Chris before when he was at school, you’d have never in a million years thought he was gay. Never. If you’d stood him up with nine other boys and had to point out who you thought would be the least gay it would be Chris.”
He also said “when I’m looking at these photos I don’t think anyone would agree that there’s a gay person here. Definitely not. I’m convinced more than ever looking at these photos the stroke did turn me gay because there is no way that I was gay before. I have photos as proof.”
These are clearly ridiculous things to say, yet this old-fashioned, prejudice notion that you can “see” who is gay was an undercurrent throughout the entire programme.
I caught that part of the programme and it so annoyed me I had to turn over. Of course there are people who 'appear gay' or 'act gay' and as these are the most obvious people assume all gays must exhibit these traits to some extent or other. The truth is there are FAR more gay people who DON'T exhibit any of these 'gay traits', and so are invisible to the general population.
It's exasparating to me when someone expresses suprise when they find out a particular person is gay. "But he doesn't look gay!" "But he's a bus driver!" "But he dresses so badly!"
Anyone name the music at about 35m when they're on the boat?
They're not on the boat when Jesse's song is played but the song that is played when they're on the boat, I'd love to know what that is. I think it's great! Very catchy. 26:18 onwards...
Comments
Yep - don't see the point in it.
Did that list of girls say 'various grannies'? :eek:
Yes!! (Although I'm still 'sort of' watching on a "its so bad it must get good/interesting at some point" basis, But, I'm now more listening to JC Chasez music in the background http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZPhdfezWzU
...far more enjoyable!
Also his story is incredibly inconsistent. He says he can't remember things but he remembers that the girl made him take part in the play or he remembers what it was like to fancy girls and how strange it was to then fancy guys. If it really did "make him gay" you'd imagine he'd try and fight against it? But instead everything changes - style, sexuality, career - like he'd wanted to do all of that all along.
It's almost like he wants an excuse for coming out because he couldn't do it by himself. He wants something to blame that he can distance himself from. It's quite sad really.
I've seen so many people on this forum talk about how it's been proven that sexuality is something you're born with, when the reality is that a) it hasn't, and b) the study on identical twins proved that nurture plays at least an equal role as nature
No the twin studies give extra credence to the theory that it's genetic.
It's a mixture of biological conditions in the womb, psychological development, and social interactions. Hence why some people can be born with 'the gay gene' (though it's not one gene) and still grow up to be heterosexual
From a purely speculative point of view, i think this chap may have been born with 'the gay gene' but psychologically developed as a heterosexual (this doesn't mean he was in denial).
No that's not true. Twins can have different hormone levels. I'm not arguing because you are clearly an expert and have made your mind up.
Straight men are gays in denial
i think the bi-sexual thing though is to at least some degree the 'wanting to have normal life for sake of parents/family'
A few bisexual people I know/have known have been essentially 'straight' to their parents e.g have introduced girlfriends too them etc, but its clear when they're away from that environment, all they want is other men.
I think, whilst bisexuality clearly is a sexuality, a fair few use it as a cloak of convenience. So they can be 'gay' but still to their parents and family put on the pretense of being 'normal'
I'm quite open minded about the factors that might affect what decides our sexual orientation and I don't think I have a fixed view but this documentary is ridiculous so far.
"he used to work in a bank, live for sport and was the life and soul of any party, now he is a gay hairdresser with a love for beauty therapies and a love for Rosé wine"
Yes because clearly no gay people work in banks or like sport. And clearly if you are male hairdresser you are gay or closeted.
Any straight men here like rosé wine? Perhaps you too are in the closet :rolleyes:
I don't think you should post so blasé about it, believe me it is not as simple as living a 'straight life' to keep up appearances whilst secretly craving nothing but male private parts.
People can have personality changes after a stroke, but it’s extremely misguided to constantly relate certain changes (i.e. becoming a hairdresser, or a voice “going softer”) to being gay, or imply that previous traits (i.e. playing sports or dressing “like a chav”) are things indicative of being straight. A good example was when his friend said:
“If you’d seen Chris before when he was at school, you’d have never in a million years thought he was gay. Never. If you’d stood him up with nine other boys and had to point out who you thought would be the least gay it would be Chris.”
He also said “when I’m looking at these photos I don’t think anyone would agree that there’s a gay person here. Definitely not. I’m convinced more than ever looking at these photos the stroke did turn me gay because there is no way that I was gay before. I have photos as proof.”
These are clearly ridiculous things to say, yet this old-fashioned, prejudice notion that you can “see” who is gay was an undercurrent throughout the entire programme. Towards the end he said “it is nice for someone like you who knew me before the stroke to say “you know what, I never thought you were gay”. That’s really reassuring”, again implying it’s somehow possible to externally detect who is or isn’t gay. And why is he so “reassured” by the notion that he wasn’t gay (or didn’t “look gay”) until after his stroke, in the first place?
Chris also said:
“If I had not done the forward role, I would not be who I am now, and I prefer who I am now”
So why would he prefer being who he is now, especially when he claims not to remember anything from before? It seems obvious to me that he prefers being who he is now (despite losing his family in the process!) because it’s very much who he always wanted to be. His friend also said “you’re still the same Chris as you were in school”, so not everyone in his life has noticed a dramatic change.
The show said that his mother is the person who suggested his “changes” were caused by the stroke, and that he was left "isolated" after coming out. I think it’s likely that his family wanted to believe he became gay because of the stroke, and have rejected him because of his subsequent lifestyle changes. A situation like that certainly gives the poor lad all the incentive he would need to lie to himself and the world about why he is the way he is, regardless of whether the stroke affected his sexuality.
At one point he said “I worry then that I’ve always had these feelings, and that maybe I just never knew them before”. My question would be why does that “worry” him? He obviously has serious issues with the idea that he was gay/had an underlying predisposition towards being gay prior to his stroke (which is strange considering that he claims to be unable to remember very much - if he can't remember, and he's happy as he is, why does he care?). His angry reaction to the scientist’s results was consistent with that, too.
Seems like a troubled young man to me. Feel sad for him.
He didn't like that at all.
Quite.
I found him a contradiction. One one hand he seemed fairly level headed and intelligent young man, and on the other a deluded nonce.
There were many things that didn't add up. He couldn't remember his life pre stroke when inconvenient, but on other occasions he could. He said to the girl "hah, you made me do that, but I did enjoy the time" followed quickly by "oh, but I can't remember much". Maybe all these girls he bedded are figments of his imagination. What made me angry was the ridiculous assumption that because he wasn't a campy, botox injecting pansy with a stupid haircut before the stroke, he couldn;t have been gay. Cos we all look like that, don't we? I've been out since 17, and I've always resembled the "old" Chris.
Very annoying programme, and enough to frighten off a large chunk of young gay lads who would be watching. If I'd thought I was going to turn out like that, I'd have sought electro-therapy treatment
No, this is wrong.
With twins it can be seen that one twin can take on different levels of hormones from the mother. The levels an be thrown off because of the fact that there are two of them.
It depends on which twin gets more or less testosterone and oestrogen.
I caught that part of the programme and it so annoyed me I had to turn over. Of course there are people who 'appear gay' or 'act gay' and as these are the most obvious people assume all gays must exhibit these traits to some extent or other. The truth is there are FAR more gay people who DON'T exhibit any of these 'gay traits', and so are invisible to the general population.
It's exasparating to me when someone expresses suprise when they find out a particular person is gay. "But he doesn't look gay!" "But he's a bus driver!" "But he dresses so badly!"
eeugh...
Jessie J - Who You Are
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2WWrupMBAE&ob=av2e
They're not on the boat when Jesse's song is played but the song that is played when they're on the boat, I'd love to know what that is. I think it's great! Very catchy. 26:18 onwards...