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Britons to spend first five months working for the State and not themselves

AnnsyreAnnsyre Posts: 109,504
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The Adam Smith Institute thinks that we are over-taxed


"Britons are still desperately overtaxed. The fact that we spend almost five months working for the State – and only seven months working for ourselves and our families – is a shocking indictment of big, wasteful government.”

Let's hope that George Osborne cuts out some of the waste and lets people who work hard keep more of their own money.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/8228050/Britons-to-spend-first-five-months-paying-tax.html
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    Achtung!Achtung! Posts: 3,398
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    I agree. It's disgraceful.
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    GreatGodPanGreatGodPan Posts: 53,186
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    Annsyre wrote: »
    The Adam Smith Institute thinks that we are over-taxed"Britons are still desperately overtaxed. The fact that we spend almost five months working for the State – and only seven months working for ourselves and our families – is a shocking indictment of big, wasteful government.”

    Let's hope that George Osborne cuts out some of the waste and lets people who work hard keep more of their own money.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/8228050/Britons-to-spend-first-five-months-paying-tax.html

    Well, no surprise there then!:)
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    PoliticoRNPoliticoRN Posts: 5,519
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    Next weeks surprise report from the ASI will be entitled "We still believe in trickle-down".
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    jswift909jswift909 Posts: 11,360
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    Not that your excert wasn't balanced, but to provide some further information, ASI

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Smith_Institute

    is the embodiment of the most free Capitalism possible. When you talk of free markets, ASI talks about no regulation rather than light-touch regulation.

    They've suggested a long list (£90bn) of government assets they'd like to see sold. Whilst most would want banks returned to private ownership, some of the others are dubious.

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thinktankcentral/2010/10/the-adamsmithinst-identifies-90-billion-of-privatisation-possibilities.html

    Interesting article about privatisation of marriage:

    http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/justice-and-civil-liberties/gay-marriage,-rights-and-privatization/

    You have to see them as the most extreme elements of Thatcherism and free-market Capitalism.

    I'd be interested to know if anyone disagrees with this last statement.

    It did strike me the other day how "Liberalism", espoused by the right-wing of both Tory and LibDems, seems to suggest personal responsibility, personal freedoms, freedom from state interference, is rarely practiced in the true meaning of the word. There are many examples where those who follow Liberalism by name, but by deed introduce Section 28, restrict marriage to their own version of morality, seek harsh prison punishment rather than rehabilitation and use their religious and moral views to oppress others, eg. single mothers.
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    Judge MentalJudge Mental Posts: 18,593
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    Annsyre wrote: »
    The Adam Smith Institute thinks that we are over-taxed


    "Britons are still desperately overtaxed. The fact that we spend almost five months working for the State – and only seven months working for ourselves and our families – is a shocking indictment of big, wasteful government.”

    Let's hope that George Osborne cuts out some of the waste and lets people who work hard keep more of their own money.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/8228050/Britons-to-spend-first-five-months-paying-tax.html

    The Danes pay 50%+ income tax and have been found to be the happiest people in the world.

    We have something to learn from them.
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    AnnsyreAnnsyre Posts: 109,504
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    jswift909 wrote: »
    Not that your excert wasn't balanced, but to provide some further information, ASI

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Smith_Institute

    is the embodiment of the most free Capitalism possible. When you talk of free markets, ASI talks about no regulation rather than light-touch regulation.

    They've suggested a long list (£90bn) of government assets they'd like to see sold. Whilst most would want banks returned to private ownership, some of the others are dubious.

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thinktankcentral/2010/10/the-adamsmithinst-identifies-90-billion-of-privatisation-possibilities.html

    Interesting article about privatisation of marriage:

    http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/justice-and-civil-liberties/gay-marriage,-rights-and-privatization/

    You have to see them as the most extreme elements of Thatcherism and free-market Capitalism.

    I'd be interested to know if anyone disagrees with this last statement.

    It did strike me the other day how "Liberalism", espoused by the right-wing of both Tory and LibDems, seems to suggest personal responsibility, personal freedoms, freedom from state interference, is rarely practiced in the true meaning of the word. There are many examples where those who follow Liberalism by name, but by deed introduce Section 28, restrict marriage to their own version of morality, seek harsh prison punishment rather than rehabilitation and use their religious and moral views to oppress others, eg. single mothers.

    I agree that there are some extreme views of which I do not approve.

    But the only point that I was trying to make is that those who do work and who are the financial backbone of the nation are bearing far too heavy a burden. They are the ones who are facing rising prices and they are the most deserving of a break. imo.:)
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    MajlisMajlis Posts: 31,362
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    The Danes pay 50%+ income tax and have been found to be the happiest people in the world.

    We have something to learn from them.

    Well in that survey Britain also came a long way behind countries that have much lower levels of taxation - so quite what you think you are going to learn from it I'm not sure. :confused:
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    GreatGodPanGreatGodPan Posts: 53,186
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    Annsyre wrote: »
    I agree that there are some extreme views of which I do not approve.

    But the only point that I was trying to make is that those who do work and who are the financial backbone of the nation are bearing far too heavy a burden. They are the ones who are facing rising prices and they are the most deserving of a break. imo.:)

    Surely taxation has to be based on the ability to pay?

    Those earning high amounts with very large disposable incomes have a moral duty to pay more tax - at rates higher than those that are at present in place.
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    jcafcwjcafcw Posts: 11,282
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    We know the cost of everything but the value of nothing.

    The rate of tax is meaningless unless we look at the value we get from it. A 10% tax rate is useless unless it comes with the quality of life.

    Lower taxes mean less state spending and the money you save from that could disappear with increased cost of transport, utilities etc. Will we have to shell out for health insurance rather than the free NHS?

    Tax cuts don't automatically mean more money in your pocket.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 33,260
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    Those earning high amounts with very large disposable incomes have a moral duty to pay more tax - at rates higher than those that are at present in place.

    but why?


    Surely the whole point of the tax system should be that it is designed to enable people to do better for themselves whilst retaining freedom and ambition to do better and earn more - whilst at the same time the state can just cream off the frothy top of what you earn, and not penalise you because you are rich and successful and limit your ability........
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    Achtung!Achtung! Posts: 3,398
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    Surely taxation has to be based on the ability to pay?

    Those earning high amounts with very large disposable incomes have a moral duty to pay more tax - at rates higher than those that are at present in place.

    Tax is not a moral duty, it's a legal one only.
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    jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,999
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    What amuses me is the report makes no mention of the fact that this 5 months doesn't even pay for the current public spending which requires borrowing more than the entire revenue from income tax. If we actually paid for this spending in taxes we'd be working for the state for probably the whole year.
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    MajlisMajlis Posts: 31,362
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    jcafcw wrote: »

    Tax cuts don't automatically mean more money in your pocket.

    But you are assuming that all government spending is worthwhile - tax increases dont automatically mean better (or cheaper) services.
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    ThinWhitePukeThinWhitePuke Posts: 358
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    Benefit claimants are the main reason for this, the welfare bill is ridiculously overblown and needs savage reductions
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    GreatGodPanGreatGodPan Posts: 53,186
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    RacerWelsh wrote: »
    but why?


    Surely the whole point of the tax system should be that it is designed to enable people to do better for themselves whilst retaining freedom and ambition to do better and earn more - whilst at the same time the state can just cream off the frothy top of what you earn, and not penalise you because you are rich and successful and limit your ability........

    A person on £150k p.a. has a moral duty to pay more of that salary in tax than the 40% they do at present.

    Paying more doesn't affect ability! A brain surgeon doesn't become less able because he is paying more tax!

    It is not a question of "penalising" an individual - it is doing what a decent individual should want anyway.

    Not all well paid people are driven by monetary gain......
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    GreatGodPanGreatGodPan Posts: 53,186
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    Achtung! wrote: »
    Tax is not a moral duty, it's a legal one only.

    So in your world there is no such thing as a moral imperative?

    You only act like you do because of the laws that are in place?
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    jcafcwjcafcw Posts: 11,282
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    Majlis wrote: »
    But you are assuming that all government spending is worthwhile - tax increases dont automatically mean better (or cheaper) services.

    I agree.

    That is why I mention the value from the tax rate. A low tax rate may bring either prosperity or hardship, as does a high tax rate. What has been needed for a long time is a unflinching look at what public spending is needed and how it needs to be raised. Then we have to have the moral fortitude to accept and pay it, with ALL of us doing our bit. No evading or scrounging or fraud.
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    GreatGodPanGreatGodPan Posts: 53,186
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    Benefit claimants are the main reason for this, the welfare bill is ridiculously overblown and needs savage reductions

    I thought they'd be making an appearance soon.........
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    jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,999
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    A person on £150k p.a. has a moral duty to pay more of that salary in tax than the 40% they do at present.

    It is not a question of "penalising" an individual - it is doing what a decent individual should want anyway.

    Ah the moral duty card. :rolleyes:
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    ThinWhitePukeThinWhitePuke Posts: 358
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    I thought they'd be making an appearance soon.........

    Welfare is the single biggest budget in government by a mile so it is foolish not to consider it the biggest reason for such high tax.
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    jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,999
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    jcafcw wrote: »
    What has been needed for a long time is a unflinching look at what public spending is needed and how it needs to be raised. Then we have to have the moral fortitude to accept and pay it, with ALL of us doing our bit. No evading or scrounging or fraud.

    That rather depends on who is doing the unflinching looking and what they come up with. The one unflinching reality is we can't even fund current public spending through taxation, we borrow £1 out of every £4 we spend.
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    MajlisMajlis Posts: 31,362
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    A person on £150k p.a. has a moral duty to pay more of that salary in tax than the 40% they do at present.

    Even if they dont tip over the £150k mark into the 50% tax bracket they would already be paying over 50% if you include tax and NI contributions.
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    Ethel_FredEthel_Fred Posts: 34,127
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    The only connection between the ASI and the views of Adam Smith is the name.

    The ASI have taken Adam Smith's ideas and produced their own bastardised form.

    You'd never, for example, have the ASI saying - as Adam Smith did -
    "It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expence, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    He also argued against monopolies and the political influence that accompanies economic power. He even thought it was useful for governments to intervene to reduce poverty
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,607
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    We are significantly less taxed than most European countries.

    Problem with a lot of people in this country is that they want US tax levels and European style benefits.

    Not possible... but its amazing how many people want both.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 33,260
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    The other problem is of course is raising revenue. Everyone assume they only way a Government can pay for public services is only through taxation.

    Well this is wrong - however the public will not allow the Government, any Government to have the freedom to look at other ways of raising revenue.

    My one example and evidence is thus:

    NHS - to allow private companies to invest and provide services for the NHS = Labour luvies go mad and claim that this is privatisation of the NHS....... Surely the NHS is the NHS no matter how it is structured or funded?

    Until the public think out of the box and allow our public services to have the freedom to look at different ways, and not be stuck in the old "taxation funded" way - The UK shall never ever have a well funded, modernised Public State System.......

    Tax is not always the answer.
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