Well precisely, if it's untrue, Pepper can sue. So far, quiet from that camp isn't it?
He is doing what absolutely any lawyer would advise him to do, pull the videos and the twitter account, and say nothing.
This entire "oh why don't they report it" argument rather forgets how humiliating and destructive the legal system can be to victims of sexual assault, particularly if the guy is older and manipulative.
.
I wouldn't forget it, but this process is plain wrong. People are demanding that he be sent to prison even though afawk he hasn't even been QUESTIONED, yet alone charged with any offence. And here is buzzfeed - buzzfeed! - trying to make something of the fact that he didn't contact them to answer questions. Of course he isn't prancing round giving ad hoc interviews to buzzfeed.
I am afraid that the rules are simple: if you want someone charged with rape or sexual assault, you go to the police and make a statement. You don't try to monster them on youtube or tumblr in the hope of ruining their life at no cost to yourself. It is not a nice process, but it is there for very good reasons.
Not really. How could she? Too late for any forensic evidence, and these bits and pieces of text messages, though they will not make anyone warm to Sam Pepper, are neither nere nor there as far as evidence of a criminal offence goes.
He is doing what absolutely any lawyer would advise him to do, pull the videos and the twitter account, and say nothing.
I wouldn't forget it, but this process is plain wrong. People are demanding that he be sent to prison even though afawk he hasn't even been QUESTIONED, yet alone charged with any offence. And here is buzzfeed - buzzfeed! - trying to make something of the fact that he didn't contact them to answer questions. Of course he isn't prancing round giving ad hoc interviews to buzzfeed.
I am afraid that the rules are simple: if you want someone charged with rape or sexual assault, you go to the police and make a statement. You don't try to monster them on youtube or tumblr in the hope of ruining their life at no cost to yourself. It is not a nice process, but it is there for very good reasons.
Not really. How could she? Too late for any forensic evidence, and these bits and pieces of text messages, though they will not make anyone warm to Sam Pepper, are neither nere nor there as far as evidence of a criminal offence goes.
No, he is starting to look like someone who has been told that serious allegations have been made against him, and who has taken advice.
Perhaps I guess we'll wait and see what develops, either way.
Its not suprised me at all to hear of this I remember his treatment of Josie when he forcefully tried to 'teabag' her. There were quite a few of us disgusted and outraged on here but C4 ignored the concerns that this guy had inappropriate boundaries and poor judgement when it came to 'fooling around' with others.
Yup, also when he pulled the covers off her when she was in bed, and she only had underwear on.
Newsbeat say they've been contacted by six girls who claim to have been sexually assaulted by him. Only one considering going to the police, for fear of hate online:
Newsbeat say they've been contacted by six girls who claim to have been sexually assaulted by him. Only one considering going to the police, for fear of hate online:
Yes, like people calling them "unbearable attention seekers" I'd have thought.
Look in the end, the condemnation of Pepper probably should stop until some charges have or haven't been pressed, yet I'm not sure slating "potential" victims is the right way to go either.
Sorry but all 3 of those people sound like unbearable attention seekers to me. I'm not saying he's innocent, but none of these videos count as proof.
When a celebrity is accused of sexual assault, one or more of three things can happen.
1. Women who were sexually assaulted by that person but were too distressed to report it gain the courage to speak up.
2. Women who had consensual sexual activity but were disappointed by the celebrity's boorish and rude treatment of them start to re-frame it and to think he deserves pay-back for the way he treated them.
3. Women who had consensual sexual activity and didn't care much either way about it would like to have a slice of the emerging pie, which may be in the form of celebrity for themselves (albeit transient) or actual money.
It is depressing that people are demanding that Sam P be sent to prison, largely because they didn't like him on Big Brother and don't like his area of fame. Making youtube videos accusing someone of assaulting you is never acceptable imo. Speak honestly to the police or accept that your lack of courage means that he has got away with whatever he did.
When a celebrity is accused of sexual assault, one or more of three things can happen.
1. Women who were sexually assaulted by that person but were too distressed to report it gain the courage to speak up.
2. Women who had consensual sexual activity but were disappointed by the celebrity's boorish and rude treatment of them start to re-frame it and to think he deserves pay-back for the way he treated them.
3. Women who had consensual sexual activity and didn't care much either way about it would like to have a slice of the emerging pie, which may be in the form of celebrity for themselves (albeit transient) or actual money.
It is depressing that people are demanding that Sam P be sent to prison, largely because they didn't like him on Big Brother and don't like his area of fame. Making youtube videos accusing someone of assaulting you is never acceptable imo. Speak honestly to the police or accept that your lack of courage means that he has got away with whatever he did.
One of them (the only one I've seen) is more saying he behaved creepily, which seems a fair thing to post really.
Just as depressing as people wanting him sent to prison, is victim-blaming, IMHO.
BTW, I didn't watch the BB he was in, so couldn't give a monkeys about him before this.
Like everyone here, I've no idea as to the truth of the allegations being made against Sam Pepper. Unlike many here (who are calling for his imprisonment) and online (who are calling for his death, suicide, getting raped in prison), I am not in the business of making or believing very serious accusations without due process taking its course.
I've only just caught up on this, having mostly kept away from social media, including here, in recent weeks precisely because of the generally juvenile, hate-filled, and unreasonable nature of much of the content. Seeing some of the stuff that's been posted about SP on my return has hardly made me re-evaluate my position!
If SP's guilty of the things he's been accused of then it's only right he should be punished accordingly. I did like him in BB11 but I'm not in the business of making excuses for someone who made me laugh for a bit on a TV show four years ago. But, by the same token, if all this comes to nothing, then I hope that the people who've made the false claims are punished accordingly. There's evidently a culture online where it is deemed acceptable to make the most outrageous claims without fear of legal recourse - never mind the morality of it.
And I'm not just talking about the girls who made the initial allegations, but about the many people who've unquestionably accepted their word and, well, anyone who types in 'sam pepper' on twitter can see the sorts of claims they're making. How they, or anyone for that matter, can think hoping someone, for example, commits suicide based on an unsubstantiated claim from someone they've never met is acceptable is beyond me. But then, much of what passes for normal behaviour on many social media outlets is beyond me these days.
Newsbeat say they've been contacted by six girls who claim to have been sexually assaulted by him. Only one considering going to the police, for fear of hate online:
What you said here didn't make sense to me (why would online abuse make you fearful of going to the police?), so I looked at the article:
Out of the six women who have come forward, only one woman says she is considering going to the police.
The others say they will not speak out for fear of getting online abuse.
The simple answer then is to go to the police if you have a genuine issue. It's troubling that the reporter here doesn't even seem to have suggested this to them (at least as far as the report is concerned). Or perhaps he has, and the odd answer they gave was that they were worried about online hate.
TBH, I've seen plenty of people just blindly defending SP, because he's cute or funny, online idiocy not just one way. Or because they're against the Feminazis.
I've certainly not said any of these obnoxious things.
and again going to the police really not as easy as people want to make out, yet this argument has been had in the thread.
TBH, I've seen plenty of people just blindly defending SP, because he's cute or funny, online idiocy not just one way. Or because they're against the Feminazis.
I've certainly not said any of these obnoxious things.
and again going to the police really not as easy as people want to make out, yet this argument has been had in the thread.
It's a hell of a lot easier than pouring it all out on Youtube!
I understand in some circumstance it is difficult for victims of abuse (among other crimes) to contact the police, but I've yet to see a fair reason why that same person would feel comfortable enough to stick it all on Youtube (with their identity on show) for total strangers to see.
In any case, I was talking about why the girls interviewed in the Newsbeat article apparently felt they could'nt go to the police because of fear on online reprisals. As I said, surely the reporter would've told them that they could report crimes anonymously - yet that's not reported in the article..
TBH, I've seen plenty of people just blindly defending SP, because he's cute or funny, online idiocy not just one way. Or because they're against the Feminazis.
I've certainly not said any of these obnoxious things.
and again going to the police really not as easy as people want to make out, yet this argument has been had in the thread.
As I said before, doing something that is easy is not necessarily going to solve their problem.
What is to be gained by just telling tales on the internet? All it can possibly serve to do is to get people on your side and create a kind of kangaroo court.
At least by contacting the correct authorities that can be done anonymously. To take your fight online makes it a public affair and can create all sorts of problems in itself legally.
Or perhaps they should simply get good advice which advises them what the best course of action for them to take is. I haven't seen anything so far which suggests that they have done this.
If Sam has done something illegal then these people must contact the police.
Doing something which is supposedly easier, which in this case is telling their stories online, will do nothing in the cause for justice.
As I also said before I don't necessarily think that people are lying, I'm just considering that perhaps some courses of action currently being taken are misguided and probably won't provide the results which they are seeking.
One thing is for sure, they have to be telling the truth or they themselves would be setting themselves up for potential criminal charges to be pressed against them.
If they aren't being honest then they will ultimately contribute towards making it more difficult for people to come forward in these cases in the future.
Like I say, I'm not saying that they are all lying and I will completely support them if they are telling the truth. After all the most important thing is to secure what the truth actually is here and that can't be achieved by just simply having lots of people agreeing with you on the internet. That never establishes the truth even if it may feel like it.
It's a hell of a lot easier than pouring it all out on Youtube!
I understand in some circumstance it is difficult for victims of abuse (among other crimes) to contact the police, but I've yet to see a fair reason why that same person would feel comfortable enough to stick it all on Youtube (with their identity on show) for total strangers to see.
In any case, I was talking about why the girls interviewed in the Newsbeat article apparently felt they could'nt go to the police because of fear on online reprisals. As I said, surely the reporter would've told them that they could report crimes anonymously - yet that's not reported in the article..
It's Newsbeat, it's not exactly the Washington Post. TBF, I really don't think in this online world you can stay anonymous in this type of case.
As I said before, doing something that is easy is not necessarily going to solve their problem.
What is to be gained by just telling tales on the internet? All it can possibly serve to do is to get people on your side and create a kind of kangaroo court.
If Sam has done something illegal then these people must contact the police.
Doing something which is supposedly easier, which in this case is telling their stories online, will do nothing in the cause for justice.
As I also said before I don't necessarily think that people are lying, I'm just considering that perhaps some courses of action currently being taken are misguided and probably won't provide the results which they are seeking.
One thing is for sure, they have to be telling the truth or they themselves would be setting themselves up for potential criminal charges to be pressed against them.
If they aren't being honest then they will ultimately contribute towards making it more difficult for people to come forward in these cases in the future.
Like I say, I'm not saying that they are all lying and I will completely support them if they are telling the truth. After all the most important thing is to secure what the truth actually is here and that can't be achieved by just simply having lots of people agreeing with you on the internet.
As I've said before I don't understand why anyone would do this on youtube, as I've also said before I don't understand the entire community.
It's Newsbeat, it's not exactly the Washington Post. TBF, I really don't think in this online world you can stay anonymous in this type of case.
As I've said before I don't understand why anyone would do this on youtube, as I've also said before I don't understand the entire community.
Me neither. As I mentioned in a previous post it's as though social media has corrupted all forms of common sense and makes people act in irrational ways which are in some way distant from the real world. It's as though people aren't grounded in reality anymore.
As another poster and I asked before, is it because we're old or something? Because over the last few years this online culture of fandom is a very weird concept to me, and as if young people jump on these bandwagons as they drive along past them. It almost feels like celebrities have online armies now and any old idiot can suddenly become a celebrity and raise an army. Fandom and adoration of celebrity feels like a very different animal to what it used to be since it took root on the internet.
It's Newsbeat, it's not exactly the Washington Post. TBF, I really don't think in this online world you can stay anonymous in this type of case.
As I've said before I don't understand why anyone would do this on youtube, as I've also said before I don't understand the entire community.
Newsbeat is geared towards younger people; they have an obligation to point out what children should do in situations like this. For the reporter to just let the (apparent) comments, that they won't go to the police because of online hate, slide is irresponsible.
And, what are you suggesting here, that the police would leak this type of information (young girls contacting them about abuse) to the world? If not, then how else would that confidential info get out, to your mind?
Still, at least you too can't fathom a reason why a girl who's scared to contact the police (or even their parents or friends, it would appear) would feel comfortable sharing it online with strangers.
He is doing what absolutely any lawyer would advise him to do, pull the videos and the twitter account, and say nothing.
A person with fame would certainly not be advised to say absolutely nothing as rape accusations publicly pile up against them. It allows the narrative to be completely one-sided with only one version of the story to believe in: the accusers. This is a PR battle as much as anything else, and he isn't fighting back. He would be advised to release a statement, at the least, just like all of the celebrities caught up in Yewtree did.
A person with fame would certainly not be advised to say absolutely nothing as rape accusations publicly pile up against them. It allows the narrative to be completely one-sided with only one version of the story to believe in: the accusers. This is a PR battle as much as anything else, and he isn't fighting back. He would be advised to release a statement, at the least, just like all of the celebrities caught up in Yewtree did.
Or he could have been advised to say nothing right now. Because good advice would probably suggest that you would have to be very careful about what you say amidst all this, and a lot of thought and consideration should be taken before you say anything at all.
A few people appear to be blurting things out which on first sight look like they should be spoken in a courtroom. I don't think that people have been given good advice or they haven't looked for it, and are saying things which could potentially hamper a real investigation or get themselves into trouble. In cases like this silence shouldn't be underestimated while people consider what they should do next.
Me neither. As I mentioned in a previous post it's as though social media has corrupted all forms of common sense and makes people act in irrational ways which are in some way distant from the real world. It's as though people aren't grounded in reality anymore.
As another poster and I asked before, is it because we're old or something? Because over the last few years this online culture of fandom is a very weird concept to me, and as if young people jump along on these bandwagons as they drive past them. Fandom is very different animal to what it used to be.
i think it may be an evolution of the anonymous keyboard warrior saying all sorts of aggressive things and being protected by their anonymity, because there is no real world consequence for their acts, the acts evolve into something more than just leaving abusive comments....
Comments
He is doing what absolutely any lawyer would advise him to do, pull the videos and the twitter account, and say nothing.
I wouldn't forget it, but this process is plain wrong. People are demanding that he be sent to prison even though afawk he hasn't even been QUESTIONED, yet alone charged with any offence. And here is buzzfeed - buzzfeed! - trying to make something of the fact that he didn't contact them to answer questions. Of course he isn't prancing round giving ad hoc interviews to buzzfeed.
I am afraid that the rules are simple: if you want someone charged with rape or sexual assault, you go to the police and make a statement. You don't try to monster them on youtube or tumblr in the hope of ruining their life at no cost to yourself. It is not a nice process, but it is there for very good reasons. Not really. How could she? Too late for any forensic evidence, and these bits and pieces of text messages, though they will not make anyone warm to Sam Pepper, are neither nere nor there as far as evidence of a criminal offence goes.
No, he is starting to look like someone who has been told that serious allegations have been made against him, and who has taken advice.
Perhaps I guess we'll wait and see what develops, either way.
Not really a credible source for anything really.
had the Sam Pepper story before DS
Good for him for being able to click Sam Pepper's name on the trending topics on Twitter.
He must be brighter than I thought he was:p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vIh2-q0NTs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wgviv47pBc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGLsSzsXiTU
Yup, also when he pulled the covers off her when she was in bed, and she only had underwear on.
an execution!
Budge up ...
*gets out knitting needles and large basket for head*
Was he guilty? I missed the verdict.
Sorry but all 3 of those people sound like unbearable attention seekers to me. I'm not saying he's innocent, but none of these videos count as proof.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/29404364
Yes, like people calling them "unbearable attention seekers" I'd have thought.
Look in the end, the condemnation of Pepper probably should stop until some charges have or haven't been pressed, yet I'm not sure slating "potential" victims is the right way to go either.
When a celebrity is accused of sexual assault, one or more of three things can happen.
1. Women who were sexually assaulted by that person but were too distressed to report it gain the courage to speak up.
2. Women who had consensual sexual activity but were disappointed by the celebrity's boorish and rude treatment of them start to re-frame it and to think he deserves pay-back for the way he treated them.
3. Women who had consensual sexual activity and didn't care much either way about it would like to have a slice of the emerging pie, which may be in the form of celebrity for themselves (albeit transient) or actual money.
It is depressing that people are demanding that Sam P be sent to prison, largely because they didn't like him on Big Brother and don't like his area of fame. Making youtube videos accusing someone of assaulting you is never acceptable imo. Speak honestly to the police or accept that your lack of courage means that he has got away with whatever he did.
One of them (the only one I've seen) is more saying he behaved creepily, which seems a fair thing to post really.
Just as depressing as people wanting him sent to prison, is victim-blaming, IMHO.
BTW, I didn't watch the BB he was in, so couldn't give a monkeys about him before this.
I've only just caught up on this, having mostly kept away from social media, including here, in recent weeks precisely because of the generally juvenile, hate-filled, and unreasonable nature of much of the content. Seeing some of the stuff that's been posted about SP on my return has hardly made me re-evaluate my position!
If SP's guilty of the things he's been accused of then it's only right he should be punished accordingly. I did like him in BB11 but I'm not in the business of making excuses for someone who made me laugh for a bit on a TV show four years ago. But, by the same token, if all this comes to nothing, then I hope that the people who've made the false claims are punished accordingly. There's evidently a culture online where it is deemed acceptable to make the most outrageous claims without fear of legal recourse - never mind the morality of it.
And I'm not just talking about the girls who made the initial allegations, but about the many people who've unquestionably accepted their word and, well, anyone who types in 'sam pepper' on twitter can see the sorts of claims they're making. How they, or anyone for that matter, can think hoping someone, for example, commits suicide based on an unsubstantiated claim from someone they've never met is acceptable is beyond me. But then, much of what passes for normal behaviour on many social media outlets is beyond me these days.
What you said here didn't make sense to me (why would online abuse make you fearful of going to the police?), so I looked at the article:
The simple answer then is to go to the police if you have a genuine issue. It's troubling that the reporter here doesn't even seem to have suggested this to them (at least as far as the report is concerned). Or perhaps he has, and the odd answer they gave was that they were worried about online hate.
I've certainly not said any of these obnoxious things.
and again going to the police really not as easy as people want to make out, yet this argument has been had in the thread.
It's a hell of a lot easier than pouring it all out on Youtube!
I understand in some circumstance it is difficult for victims of abuse (among other crimes) to contact the police, but I've yet to see a fair reason why that same person would feel comfortable enough to stick it all on Youtube (with their identity on show) for total strangers to see.
In any case, I was talking about why the girls interviewed in the Newsbeat article apparently felt they could'nt go to the police because of fear on online reprisals. As I said, surely the reporter would've told them that they could report crimes anonymously - yet that's not reported in the article..
As I said before, doing something that is easy is not necessarily going to solve their problem.
What is to be gained by just telling tales on the internet? All it can possibly serve to do is to get people on your side and create a kind of kangaroo court.
At least by contacting the correct authorities that can be done anonymously. To take your fight online makes it a public affair and can create all sorts of problems in itself legally.
Or perhaps they should simply get good advice which advises them what the best course of action for them to take is. I haven't seen anything so far which suggests that they have done this.
If Sam has done something illegal then these people must contact the police.
Doing something which is supposedly easier, which in this case is telling their stories online, will do nothing in the cause for justice.
As I also said before I don't necessarily think that people are lying, I'm just considering that perhaps some courses of action currently being taken are misguided and probably won't provide the results which they are seeking.
One thing is for sure, they have to be telling the truth or they themselves would be setting themselves up for potential criminal charges to be pressed against them.
If they aren't being honest then they will ultimately contribute towards making it more difficult for people to come forward in these cases in the future.
Like I say, I'm not saying that they are all lying and I will completely support them if they are telling the truth. After all the most important thing is to secure what the truth actually is here and that can't be achieved by just simply having lots of people agreeing with you on the internet. That never establishes the truth even if it may feel like it.
It's Newsbeat, it's not exactly the Washington Post. TBF, I really don't think in this online world you can stay anonymous in this type of case.
As I've said before I don't understand why anyone would do this on youtube, as I've also said before I don't understand the entire community.
Me neither. As I mentioned in a previous post it's as though social media has corrupted all forms of common sense and makes people act in irrational ways which are in some way distant from the real world. It's as though people aren't grounded in reality anymore.
As another poster and I asked before, is it because we're old or something? Because over the last few years this online culture of fandom is a very weird concept to me, and as if young people jump on these bandwagons as they drive along past them. It almost feels like celebrities have online armies now and any old idiot can suddenly become a celebrity and raise an army. Fandom and adoration of celebrity feels like a very different animal to what it used to be since it took root on the internet.
Newsbeat is geared towards younger people; they have an obligation to point out what children should do in situations like this. For the reporter to just let the (apparent) comments, that they won't go to the police because of online hate, slide is irresponsible.
And, what are you suggesting here, that the police would leak this type of information (young girls contacting them about abuse) to the world?
Still, at least you too can't fathom a reason why a girl who's scared to contact the police (or even their parents or friends, it would appear) would feel comfortable sharing it online with strangers.
A person with fame would certainly not be advised to say absolutely nothing as rape accusations publicly pile up against them. It allows the narrative to be completely one-sided with only one version of the story to believe in: the accusers. This is a PR battle as much as anything else, and he isn't fighting back. He would be advised to release a statement, at the least, just like all of the celebrities caught up in Yewtree did.
Or he could have been advised to say nothing right now. Because good advice would probably suggest that you would have to be very careful about what you say amidst all this, and a lot of thought and consideration should be taken before you say anything at all.
A few people appear to be blurting things out which on first sight look like they should be spoken in a courtroom. I don't think that people have been given good advice or they haven't looked for it, and are saying things which could potentially hamper a real investigation or get themselves into trouble. In cases like this silence shouldn't be underestimated while people consider what they should do next.
i think it may be an evolution of the anonymous keyboard warrior saying all sorts of aggressive things and being protected by their anonymity, because there is no real world consequence for their acts, the acts evolve into something more than just leaving abusive comments....
completely agree with you on the fandom issue it's mystery (©toyah) to me...just as during the BB series proper and CBB any random comment suddenly garners "just coz your (sic) a *insert HM name here* fan"....it's as if complex thought has been banned....