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My dad is dying

NatoPMTNatoPMT Posts: 3,184
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My dad has cancer, I dont know yet the full extent but we have a pretty good idea it's spread from his lungs to his liver and likely his brain. He's been extremely ill for weeks. He's only just admitted it a couple of weeks ago because his symptoms were unmissable. His vision has gone, he can't write, he cant eat or sleep - yet today he was in his office working on a ridiculous case load. This evening he has been strong armed into hospital at last and he will have a scan tomorrow. We know its in his lungs after x-rays 2 weeks ago that my sister arranged at her hospital (200 miles from his home, and he promptly discharged himself)

Apart from all the obvious, I just don't know how I am going to cope. He is a very proud man, old school, he doesn't want fuss, he said he doesn't want people there as it 'will be like a wake'. I can't control my emotions at the moment, I feel lost already and I will be a mess when I see him, I need to plan what to say and think it through so I have some control over it because he will see it as intrusive and uncomfortable if we are all a total mess.

Anyone have any advice on what to say, to show I love him but without putting stuff on him, or without too much declaration?

Next week might be the last time I see him, he has deteriorated rapidly in the last week
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 12,830
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    Have you spoken to the doctors in charge of his treatment ? You might have to do things as your father says he wants, because he is too ill to do things any other way.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,391
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    Why is he working, try and convince him to spend time with his family and do what ever he can with them. He should forget about work.
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    NatoPMTNatoPMT Posts: 3,184
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    petertard wrote: »
    Have you spoken to the doctors in charge of his treatment ? You might have to do things as your father says he wants, because he is too ill to do things any other way.

    Thanks. My sister is a senior nurse and has been speaking his his GP and has spoken to the hospital nurse tonight. She's driving up there to speak to the drs make sure he's getting the right tests tomorrow as they have been slow to get this CAT scan since they got the xrays 2 weeks ago - so I trust her with that side of things. The hospital he's at has been in the news for under performing recently.
    tothegrand wrote: »
    Why is he working, try and convince him to spend time with his family and do what ever he can with them. He should forget about work.

    Thanks for the input
    striing wrote: »
    Sorry for your situation.

    The only thing I can say, from my experience, is tell or ask him whatever you want to, respecting his personality. And if you want to be there be there - ask the hospital to call you if that's where he is.

    Thank you. My problem is that I'm the same as him. We are both uncomfortable with emotion and the amount I am feeling is going to 'spoil' my last time with him. He argued with my sister today on the phone about going into hospital and Im grateful I dont have do deal with that side of things. I just need to work out how to cope when i see him. I saw him 2 weeks ago, wen I walked in I said "what's all this attention seeking" and gave him a hug, his partner thanked me afterwards for dealing with it that way, but then I thought it was treatable. Now I know that's unlikely, I cant keep that level of flippancy. I also want him to tell me stuff I have never asked, about his childhood, his teenage years etc. We weren't close for many years so i feel I've missed a lot, our relationship is almost formal while being affectionate, it's very hard to explain. I realise now he's hardly ever told me anything. He might be too exhausted to talk, his breathing is laboured on the phone.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 449
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    My heart really goes out to you, I don't really have much good advice as its hard to know what to say in such a horrible situation so I apologise for that. You could ask for some support from Macmillan. I guess just try and spend as much time as you can with him and say all the things you need to say regardless of how emotional they might be, the last thing you need is regret. A close relative of mine has been operated on for prostate cancer but unfortunately it's spread and it just feels like the scariest thing in the world. I really empathise with you and hope that things are not as bad as you fear.
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    Pippa 2Pippa 2 Posts: 2,614
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    I'm so sorry OP, I hope you get to talk to each other without feeling awkward. It's difficult, I know. Take care.:)
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    benjaminibenjamini Posts: 32,066
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    Tough, depends how brave both of you are at facing this situation. It would be entirely wrong for me to give anyone advice on such an intimate moment. I feel for you tho.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 6,924
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    My thoughts go out to you. Your dad sounds a very proud man. Maybe he is scared too and rather than admit it is just trying to pretend that everything is normal hence carrying on with work. Sadly I never had the chance to have a last conversation with my dad, I never had the chance to thank him for having taken me on and for loving me. He was my stepdad. Take care. Keep trying to have those important talks with your dad. They are very important for you and him.
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    NatoPMTNatoPMT Posts: 3,184
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    striing wrote: »
    I do understand what you're saying. I'm similar. I think you might find when it gets to the end - and you all acknowledge that is how it is that you find you can ask what you want - and that he will answer it.

    In my case, at the point my mother was due to be moved to palliative care she told me what she wanted for her funeral - and I asked the things I could think of as well as expressing sadness that she wouldn't be there for me to ask her when I was 30, 40 etc.

    Maybe talk about the funeral - that is a fixed thing that might allow your father to talk about what he wants.

    You will cope somehow. You just will. Don't overthink it.

    The thought of talking about his funeral with him is enough to send me to mine - I've been thinking about an obituary or what will be said at his funeral and that's been making me implode in tears. I can see the merit though, focusing on the practicalities removes the emotion so might help me in the moment. I do want it to be emotional but without the over emotion. So basically, I want the impossible.

    I'm sorry to hear about your mum.
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    benjaminibenjamini Posts: 32,066
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    What does he want?
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    NatoPMTNatoPMT Posts: 3,184
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    CarrieNYC wrote: »
    My heart really goes out to you, I don't really have much good advice as its hard to know what to say in such a horrible situation so I apologise for that. You could ask for some support from Macmillan. I guess just try and spend as much time as you can with him and say all the things you need to say regardless of how emotional they might be, the last thing you need is regret. A close relative of mine has been operated on for prostate cancer but unfortunately it's spread and it just feels like the scariest thing in the world. I really empathise with you and hope that things are not as bad as you fear.

    Sorry to hear that. It is the scariest thing in the world, on every level. Levels I didn't even know exist. I will speak to Macmillan thank you.
    Pippa 2 wrote: »
    I'm so sorry OP, I hope you get to talk to each other without feeling awkward. It's difficult, I know. Take care.:)

    awkward sounds such an inappropriate work to use in this instance, but unfortunately it's not without relevancy.
    benjamini wrote: »
    Tough, depends how brave both of you are at facing this situation. It would be entirely wrong for me to give anyone advice on such an intimate moment. I feel for you tho.

    Thank you. I'm really not brave. He is though.
    avasgranny wrote: »
    My thoughts go out to you. Your dad sounds a very proud man. Maybe he is scared too and rather than admit it is just trying to pretend that everything is normal hence carrying on with work. Sadly I never had the chance to have a last conversation with my dad, I never had the chance to thank him for having taken me on and for loving me. He was my stepdad. Take care. Keep trying to have those important talks with your dad. They are very important for you and him.

    Thank you. I hope he knew what you would have said to him, I feel a little humbled that I have the chance you didnt but then feel that I think my dad knows without it being said, and saying it goes outside the implicit we have always had. Maybe that's what I say to him.
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    mred2000mred2000 Posts: 10,050
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    NatoPMT wrote: »
    Thanks. My sister is a senior nurse and has been speaking his his GP and has spoken to the hospital nurse tonight. She's driving up there to speak to the drs make sure he's getting the right tests tomorrow as they have been slow to get this CAT scan since they got the xrays 2 weeks ago - so I trust her with that side of things. The hospital he's at has been in the news for under performing recently

    That's amazing, I didn't think something like that would be possible. Does she normally work at that hospital or is she just stepping in to help your dad? I wish someone would've done that when my dad was dying with lung cancer. He needed fluid draining off his lungs at one point and was left on a bed in a corridor on a Friday night, and that was just the tip of the iceberg...

    My dad wasn't an emotional bloke but we clicked, before he died. Don't force anything. There's an argument for saying let him do what he wants in his last days, though. Luckily my dad had retired so work wasn't a problem.
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    CroctacusCroctacus Posts: 18,298
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    I know its hard but I think you, and your sister, have to respect his wishes in how he wants to handle it. If that means him working all the time he can or not wanting a fuss or certain treatments then he has to have the final say. He may not want to talk about it and harsh as that will be for you it really is his decision to make.

    Good luck.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 19
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    I had to post because I feel so sorry for you. I am not best placed to give you advice on what to say except to say what feels natural at the time.

    I really feel for you.
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    NatoPMTNatoPMT Posts: 3,184
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    striing wrote: »
    It's hard. Give yourself a little bit of time to adjust. Two weeks is not long at all. It might be that talking about the funeral is not going to be right for you - or him. (For me it was essential as I wouldn't have known what to do and my mum obviously realised that.)

    Also, long term, your memories of your father won't be the final ones. It is a good idea to consciously make a 'good' last moment if you can - but if the last moment turns out to be something other than what you're expecting it won't matter when the dust settles. There isn't a right or wrong - it's just what is going to get you through - and part of that is likely to be tied up with knowing you are doing what your father wants.

    benjamini wrote: »
    What does he want?

    That's what I want to be important. And what I'm asking myself.

    I'm going to bed as I have to be up early, I'm really very grateful to everyone who has responded, it's allowed me to get things out that I had not been facing, and needed to before I go up there. I find it hard to talk to friends and this forum outlet allows me time to hear what is being said to me without crying over everything being said. I will need a few days to process this stuff so any more advice will be equally gratefully received.

    You all really have helped.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 12,830
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    Your father's attempt to try to work may have been him trying to regain some control over himself and his situation. If he is the type of person who wants or needs to be in control over his circumstances, the worst thing for him might be his loss of control, that things are necessarily now in the hands of doctors. If this is the case, it may help if you ask him how he wants to do things, and admit that you do not really know how best to do things yourself. This might give him back a little control, at least on how members of his family deal with him and cope with what is happening to him and you.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 6,924
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    striing wrote: »
    That sounds lovely.

    I agree.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 449
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    NatoPMT wrote: »



    Thank you. I hope he knew what you would have said to him, I feel a little humbled that I have the chance you didnt but then feel that I think my dad knows without it being said, and saying it goes outside the implicit we have always had. Maybe that's what I say to him.

    I've never had the kind of relationship with my parents where we talk about feelings, say that we love each other etc so I see where you're coming from, but maybe we do just assume that they know we love them, know we respect them, which is why it remains unsaid. It's better to say it than have regrets of not saying it when the chance was there. Give yourself a bit of time to deal with what news the scan brings, and take it from there. I've heard people say that in these situations you find an inner strength, I don't know if that's true but if it is I truely hope you find yours and you find a way to cope.
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    Mumof3Mumof3 Posts: 4,529
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    Let him dictate his own terms, in all things. When my father in law died, it was so quick and so unexpected that perversely, a period of gradual farewell would have seemed a treasured time. Big hug.
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    Jaydogg_HomeJaydogg_Home Posts: 215
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    I'd go and see him if he's in that state, whatever you decide to do/say you'll fall to peaces when you see him. He knows you love him, every dad should know their child loves you, good luck.
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    scar_tissuescar_tissue Posts: 719
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    You have my sympathies at this difficult time :(
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    NatoPMTNatoPMT Posts: 3,184
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    I dreamt about him all night, that I was making him sandwiches with ketchup for him to take to hospital. I've been thinking about all the things we did when I was little, how he called the local nature reserve Wizards Hollow and how he used to take me looking for newts and butterflies there. He used to turn the electricity off and hide in the dark to jump out on us. How did I get to be middle aged and saying goodbye to him. This is the stuff i need to contain until he's gone...then I can indulge. I've packed my 18 month old off to my mother in laws because I can't stop crying let alone look after her.
    striing wrote: »
    That sounds lovely.
    ...
    avasgranny wrote: »
    I agree.
    ....
    You have my sympathies at this difficult time :(
    ...
    Chiara1988 wrote: »
    I had to post because I feel so sorry for you. I am not best placed to give you advice on what to say except to say what feels natural at the time.

    I really feel for you.

    Thank you
    mred2000 wrote: »
    That's amazing, I didn't think something like that would be possible. Does she normally work at that hospital or is she just stepping in to help your dad? I wish someone would've done that when my dad was dying with lung cancer. He needed fluid draining off his lungs at one point and was left on a bed in a corridor on a Friday night, and that was just the tip of the iceberg...

    My dad wasn't an emotional bloke but we clicked, before he died. Don't force anything. There's an argument for saying let him do what he wants in his last days, though. Luckily my dad had retired so work wasn't a problem.

    My sister has always said there is a way to deal with health professionals but not sure what that is. The first set of tests was at her hospital so she knew the staff and got everything needed, since he's been back home, nothing has happened and his tests have been delayed. She's going up there with the knowledge of how the systems work I guess. So sorry your poor dad went through that.
    Croctacus wrote: »
    I know its hard but I think you, and your sister, have to respect his wishes in how he wants to handle it. If that means him working all the time he can or not wanting a fuss or certain treatments then he has to have the final say. He may not want to talk about it and harsh as that will be for you it really is his decision to make.

    Good luck.

    We assumed he would refuse treatment and he has so far. There's more to it in that he told me when my uncle died that he didn't want to go through palliative care, and to bump him off. Everyone assumed he would take his own life, he collects shotguns. Now he is in hospital, he has no longer got that option. So I'm also upset that his probable wishes aren't now an option for him and I know he doesn't want to die slowly, without dignity as he sees it.
    petertard wrote: »
    Your father's attempt to try to work may have been him trying to regain some control over himself and his situation. If he is the type of person who wants or needs to be in control over his circumstances, the worst thing for him might be his loss of control, that things are necessarily now in the hands of doctors. If this is the case, it may help if you ask him how he wants to do things, and admit that you do not really know how best to do things yourself. This might give him back a little control, at least on how members of his family deal with him and cope with what is happening to him and you.

    Given what I said to Croctacus, I think you're absolutely right and will bear your advice very much in mind.
    CarrieNYC wrote: »
    I've never had the kind of relationship with my parents where we talk about feelings, say that we love each other etc so I see where you're coming from, but maybe we do just assume that they know we love them, know we respect them, which is why it remains unsaid. It's better to say it than have regrets of not saying it when the chance was there. Give yourself a bit of time to deal with what news the scan brings, and take it from there. I've heard people say that in these situations you find an inner strength, I don't know if that's true but if it is I truely hope you find yours and you find a way to cope.

    I'm pretty sure I dont have much inner strength but I hope youre right. I think saying something like 'we dont need to say it' is effectively saying it, and gives him the option to elaborate if he wants which is my main worry, doing it as he wants not as I blurt. I think my main regret will be if I cant hold it together as I know he doesnt want that (at this stage anyway).
    Mumof3 wrote: »
    Let him dictate his own terms, in all things. When my father in law died, it was so quick and so unexpected that perversely, a period of gradual farewell would have seemed a treasured time. Big hug.

    I'm so sorry that you didn't get that chance when I am seeming to want to avoid it.
    I'd go and see him if he's in that state, whatever you decide to do/say you'll fall to peaces when you see him. He knows you love him, every dad should know their child loves you, good luck.

    urgh maybe I should just accept I will make an almighty mess of it. I dont want this to be happening. I dont want him to be going through this. When people say how awful cancer is I have always thought 'yeah it is' but living it is something else. It's like opening the lid into hell.

    sorry for the brain dump. It's helping organise my thoughts.
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    Joel's dadJoel's dad Posts: 4,886
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    My father in law is in the same boat hardest time of our life's
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    Hildas HairnetHildas Hairnet Posts: 643
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    Gosh I really feel for you.

    Can't believe he is still going into work :eek:

    Macmillan nurses are just angels, they've seen it all, been in every situation and still just find the right things to say at the right time. If your father will accept their help, I would suggest you take it.

    Saying that, if your dad goes into a hospice, I cannot begin to tell you what an amazing job they do - the care, not just for the patient is brilliant.

    It is difficult trying to come to terms with the situation and I imagine that you will initially find it really hard, but you will find it easier the more you are with him.

    Look after yourselves x
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    PinkPetuniaPinkPetunia Posts: 5,479
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    I just want to wish you all peace and that thing work out .They usually do and people will be there to hep you all throught this .
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    Lucy LouLucy Lou Posts: 8,574
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    So sorry I could not just read this thread without posting, although I do not have any great words of wisdom.
    As someone else has already said if your Dad does go into a hospice at some stage then they do offer incredible support for all the family.
    I wish I had something magical to say which would ease your situation and I feel inadequate that I don't.
    It is good to see that you also have the support of your sister who is able to cope with the more medical side of things.

    Sending you strength and hugs.
    x
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