It might be time to remind everyone that I have posted over 60 clips of the BBC broadcasts of the UK Championships in Bournemouth 1991 to 1994, on YouTube. I have mentioned this before but there might be newcomers to the forum who haven't seen it yet. I kept a detailed list in spreadsheet form, so if anyone wants a copy they can send me a private message.
Incidentally I think ballroom dancing might be an ideal subject for an anthropologist to study as it involves the customs and rituals of primitive people!
Tango. A multidimensional expression of Argentine identity, one that speaks to that nation's sense of disorientation, loss, and terror. Yet the tango mesmerises dancers and audiences alike throughout the world. In Paper Tangos, Julie Taylor - a classically trained dancer and anthropologist - examines the poetics of the tango while describing her own quest to dance this most dramatic of paired dances. Taylor, born in the United States, has lived much of her adult life in Latin America. She has spent years studying the tango in Buenos Aires, dancing during and after the terror of military dictatorships. This book is at once an account of a life lived crossing the borders of two distinct and complex cultures and an exploration of the conflicting meanings of tango for women who love the poetry of its movement yet feel uneasy with the roles it bestows on the male and female dancers. Drawing parallels among the violences of the Argentine Junta, the play with power inherent in tango dancing, and her own experiences with violence both inside and outside the intriguing tango culture, Taylor weaves the line between engaging memoir and insightful cultural critique. Within the contexts of tango's creative birth and contemporary presentations, this book welcomes us directly into the tango subculture and reveals the ways that personal, political, and historical violence operate in our lives. The book's experimental design includes photographs on every page, which form a flip-book sequence of a tango. Not simply a book for tango dancers and fans, Paper Tangos will reward students of Latin American studies, cultural studies, anthropology, feminist studies, dance studies, and the art of critical memoir. Julie Taylor is Associate Professor of Anthropology at Rice University and is the author of Eva Peron: The Myths of a Woman.
I would be more than happy to share some thoughts on the Ballroom & Latin dances and I;m sure there are others that possibly will add comments?
With regard to anything else, ie Charleston, I don't have any knowledge in this area.
I can see that the Salsa and AT in SCD are show dance versions - lots of lifts and faffing abaht.
Does the same apply to the standard and Latin dances?
Oh are AT and Salsa part of the "10 dances"? Charleston?
Salsa and AT are not part of the 10 dances no. They're Waltz, Viennese Waltz, Foxtrot, Quickstep and Ballroom Tango, plus Rumba, Samba, Jive, Paso Doble and Cha Cha.
ETA: I see Jennifer got there first As she says, none of the 10 Dances should have lifts. The Salsa, Argentine Tango, American Smooth and Charleston are the other dances they've added over the years as they got more contestants.
Lifts have been sneaking in over the past few years, two (originally) were allowed in the American Smooth, the Salsa seems to have no limits these days, I believe it used to be three lifts for the AT and the Charleston it's "anything goes"
I would really like a critique of recent Tangos (as opposed to ATs) on SCD with youtube illustrations.
I just love Tango, so much technique that never gets mentioned by any judges, probably because its a little too advanced.
I have never heard any judge mention lack of floor pressure, whether it be latin or ballroom. You need to work into/through the floor in ballroom as that is how, with correct use of feet.legs and knees, that you get the power.
Back to tango, each step taken should be on eihter an inside or outside edge of foot....not that you will see that on SCD!
If you search youtube, you will find quite a few comps, dems and instruction clips, that will be interesting.
I just love Tango, so much technique that never gets mentioned by any judges, probably because its a little too advanced.
I have never heard any judge mention lack of floor pressure, whether it be latin or ballroom. You need to work into/through the floor in ballroom as that is how, with correct use of feet.legs and knees, that you get the power.
Back to tango, each step taken should be on eihter an inside or outside edge of foot....not that you will see that on SCD!
If you search youtube, you will find quite a few comps, dems and instruction clips, that will be interesting.
It is quite awkward to lead experienced Ballroom Tango followers in Argentine Tango. They tend to anticipate sequences. ;-)
It is quite awkward to lead experienced Ballroom Tango followers in Argentine Tango. They tend to anticipate sequences. ;-)
I imagine the reverse is also true.
The thing I found the most challenging was the lack of "discipline" in AT - in a good way.
In the Ballroom tango, obviously you have a different hold to the other dances and the hold is more compact, but you still have the topline, lower stance, toned frame etc. to think about. When I had a go at AT, I found it strange to try and keep the "A" shape. I did enjoy it though. Perhaps I should have stuck with it, but just didn;t have the time.:(
I just love Tango, so much technique that never gets mentioned by any judges, probably because its a little too advanced.
I have never heard any judge mention lack of floor pressure, whether it be latin or ballroom. You need to work into/through the floor in ballroom as that is how, with correct use of feet.legs and knees, that you get the power.
Back to tango, each step taken should be on eihter an inside or outside edge of foot....not that you will see that on SCD!
If you search youtube, you will find quite a few comps, dems and instruction clips, that will be interesting.
They rarely if ever do. I got a lot of flack following Abbey's salsa because I wrote that she didn't use the floor in the way you describe. She also took steps that were too big so her feet were no longer under her body weight. (I kept my own counsel when Ashley came along and danced the whole thing on tippy toes)
I was taught to push the ball of the foot into the floor (so to speak) and then to bring the heel down to 'kiss the floor' before using the floor and that pressure in the ball of the foot to push you back out again. That's where that earthy body movement comes from. To me if someone dances on the balls of their feet and also wiggles their bottom it doesn't achieve the same look at all. It makes the dancer look airy fairy and not earthy and grounded. I had wondered if a similar technique applies to ballroom Latin.
They rarely if ever do. I got a lot of flack following Abbey's salsa because I wrote that she didn't use the floor in the way you describe. She also took step that were too big so her feet were no longer under her body weight.(I kept my own counsel when Ashley came along and danced the whole thing on tippy toes)
I was taught to push the ball of the foot into the floor (so to speak) and then to bring the heel down to 'kiss the floor' before using the floor and that pressure in the ball of the foot to push you back out again. That's where that earthy body movement comes from. To me if someone dances on the balls of their feet and also wiggles their bottom it doesn't achieve the same look at all. It makes the dancer look airy fairy and not earthy and grounded. I had wondered if a similar technique applies to ballroom Latin.
Yes, exactly right as far as Latin is concerned. To many, "hip action" means "shakin' that booty" but it is by using correct technique re legs and feet, that naturally create the hip action.
Yes, exactly right as far as Latin is concerned. To many, "hip action" means "shakin' that booty" but it is by using correct technique re legs and feet, that naturally create the hip action.
They used to mention, repeatedly, the correct use of the feet to get the right hip action in the latin, now it only comes out occasionally.
The thing I found the most challenging was the lack of "discipline" in AT - in a good way.
In the Ballroom tango, obviously you have a different hold to the other dances and the hold is more compact, but you still have the topline, lower stance, toned frame etc. to think about. When I had a go at AT, I found it strange to try and keep the "A" shape. I did enjoy it though. Perhaps I should have stuck with it, but just didn;t have the time.:(
That seems to be the thing that all ballroom dancers who come to our classes find the hardest to come to terms with. But they do most else right. They also understand what is being described. Last night we were describing how a tango step comprises three parts (intent, collect and resolution) the students from a dance background understand this straight away even if it takes longer to apply it. The rest of the class just look blank.
I know an ex ballroom dancer in the salsa scene who dances really well except when ever she is in hold (most of the time in salsa) she adopts a Natalie Rowe style upper body shape. Its a dead give away that she did ballroom to a higher standard. Mind you I would swop her dance ability for mine any day.
I also know a guy who has started doing AT from many years of a lindy hop, jive, rock and roll background. To watch he looks all wrong doing AT. He seems to be hunched forward and in the lady's dance space. Watching him I think OMG he will be a nightmare to dance with. But from lesson one he led like a dream. I wish I knew how he could look so wrong yet feel so right.
They used to mention, repeatedly, the correct use of the feet to get the right hip action in the latin, now it only comes out occasionally.
I've often thought it would be interesting if they had a spot somewhere, or even on ITT, where they have a proper instructional spot, to show how to create the action etc., in rumba walks, how exactly to dance a basic samba bota fogo for example.
I've often thought it would be interesting if they had a spot somewhere, or even on ITT, where they have a proper instructional spot, to show how to create the action etc., in rumba walks, how exactly to dance a basic samba bota fogo for example.
So would I. SCD really peeks my interest in other dances. I got one of our students teaching me Viennese Waltz basic last night. Problem was he was going on about facing diagonal to the wall and I was still trying to remember that I have to close AND change weigh on step 3. I kept forgetting the weight change and you can imagine what a car crash that was.
They used to mention, repeatedly, the correct use of the feet to get the right hip action in the latin, now it only comes out occasionally.
They really need to emphasise where the weight should be and the foot pressure into the floor. Otherwise instead of the earthy action wanted, it looks skippy across the floor in the quicker dances.
I've often thought it would be interesting if they had a spot somewhere, or even on ITT, where they have a proper instructional spot, to show how to create the action etc., in rumba walks, how exactly to dance a basic samba bota fogo for example.
Yeah, they used to do that as well. Series Six is where everything started moving away from the "dance" element and towards the "X-factoringcelebritytalentlesscrap-ing up" of the show. Blame Moira Ross everyone else does
They really need to emphasise where the weight should be and the foot pressure into the floor. Otherwise instead of the earthy action wanted, it looks skippy across the floor in the quicker dances.
Skippy - yes that's a better word that airy fairy (which is two!). To me salsa in particular should retain some essence of being quite tribal in nature. I want to see some nod to its African roots in there. This is why I keep using the word earthy. It doesn't have to be smut or raunch but I do feel it should speak of our ancestral roots. Does that make any sense?
So would I. SCD really peeks my interest in other dances. I got one of our students teaching me Viennese Waltz basic last night. Problem was he was going on about facing diagonal to the wall and I was still trying to remember that I have to close AND change weigh on step 3. I kept forgetting the weight change and you can imagine what a car crash that was.
VW is a disceptively difficult dance to master, as it is so very technical. The footwork is very precise and a dead giveaway if you don't know what you are doing, ie certain steps, the heel must not be placed. As you say, it is all danced on the diagonal with linear swing down the room, on naturals. Beautiful dance but exhausting though...
Yeah, they used to do that as well. Series Six is where everything started moving away from the "dance" element and towards the "X-factoringcelebritytalentlesscrap-ing up" of the show. Blame Moira Ross everyone else does
Skippy - yes that's a better word that airy fairy (which is two!). To me salsa in particular should retain some essence of being quite tribal in nature. I want to see some nod to its African roots in there. This is why I keep using the word earthy. It doesn't have to be smut or raunch but I do feel it should speak of our ancestral roots. Does that make any sense?
Yes, indeed it does. I think all latin dances, including salsa should be earthy and rhythmic.
Forgive me posting this here A Throp , but it's the best place to find you!
I promised you some sensible advice on footcare and exercises for tango. It has taken me an age to find this article for you so please forgive the delay. I had forgotten that I had stashed it away in a special AT file.
Comments
I have been thinking of buying Paper Tangos (Public Planet Books) [Paperback] Julie Taylor (Author)
Mia Helmer Jensen 14th of December 2006
Student Number: 05140642
Dance Anthropology
MA Dissertation: DAN060L760Y
Sensuous and Gendered Embraces: An Investigation into Tango Dance Practices
http://www.i-m-pulse.eclipse.co.uk/MA%20Thesis%20(2).htm
With regard to anything else, ie Charleston, I don't have any knowledge in this area.
Does the same apply to the standard and Latin dances?
Oh are AT and Salsa part of the "10 dances"? Charleston?
Hope so I have just bought some of their Australian Chardonnay for my sister who bizarrely doesn't drink red
With regard to the standard dances, there should be no lifts unless there is an AS involved, however, Artem is in the final too, so who knows:)
No, AT and salsa are not part of 10 dance.
These are Waltz, Tango, Fox, VW, QS, CCC, Samba , Paso Doble, Rumba and Jive.
I haven't tried that yet. It is in my wine rack. Oh Aldi's New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc is foul - avoid it.
Most of their mid to higher priced reds are very good to quite superb VFM. Minarete Ribera del Duero at £5.49 is the best sub-tenner wine.
Salsa and AT are not part of the 10 dances no. They're Waltz, Viennese Waltz, Foxtrot, Quickstep and Ballroom Tango, plus Rumba, Samba, Jive, Paso Doble and Cha Cha.
ETA: I see Jennifer got there first
Lifts have been sneaking in over the past few years, two (originally) were allowed in the American Smooth, the Salsa seems to have no limits these days, I believe it used to be three lifts for the AT and the Charleston it's "anything goes"
I just love Tango, so much technique that never gets mentioned by any judges, probably because its a little too advanced.
I have never heard any judge mention lack of floor pressure, whether it be latin or ballroom. You need to work into/through the floor in ballroom as that is how, with correct use of feet.legs and knees, that you get the power.
Back to tango, each step taken should be on eihter an inside or outside edge of foot....not that you will see that on SCD!
If you search youtube, you will find quite a few comps, dems and instruction clips, that will be interesting.
It is quite awkward to lead experienced Ballroom Tango followers in Argentine Tango. They tend to anticipate sequences. ;-)
I imagine the reverse is also true.
The thing I found the most challenging was the lack of "discipline" in AT - in a good way.
In the Ballroom tango, obviously you have a different hold to the other dances and the hold is more compact, but you still have the topline, lower stance, toned frame etc. to think about. When I had a go at AT, I found it strange to try and keep the "A" shape. I did enjoy it though. Perhaps I should have stuck with it, but just didn;t have the time.:(
They rarely if ever do. I got a lot of flack following Abbey's salsa because I wrote that she didn't use the floor in the way you describe. She also took steps that were too big so her feet were no longer under her body weight. (I kept my own counsel when Ashley came along and danced the whole thing on tippy toes)
I was taught to push the ball of the foot into the floor (so to speak) and then to bring the heel down to 'kiss the floor' before using the floor and that pressure in the ball of the foot to push you back out again. That's where that earthy body movement comes from. To me if someone dances on the balls of their feet and also wiggles their bottom it doesn't achieve the same look at all. It makes the dancer look airy fairy and not earthy and grounded. I had wondered if a similar technique applies to ballroom Latin.
Yes, exactly right as far as Latin is concerned. To many, "hip action" means "shakin' that booty" but it is by using correct technique re legs and feet, that naturally create the hip action.
They used to mention, repeatedly, the correct use of the feet to get the right hip action in the latin, now it only comes out occasionally.
That seems to be the thing that all ballroom dancers who come to our classes find the hardest to come to terms with. But they do most else right. They also understand what is being described. Last night we were describing how a tango step comprises three parts (intent, collect and resolution) the students from a dance background understand this straight away even if it takes longer to apply it. The rest of the class just look blank.
I know an ex ballroom dancer in the salsa scene who dances really well except when ever she is in hold (most of the time in salsa) she adopts a Natalie Rowe style upper body shape. Its a dead give away that she did ballroom to a higher standard. Mind you I would swop her dance ability for mine any day.
I also know a guy who has started doing AT from many years of a lindy hop, jive, rock and roll background. To watch he looks all wrong doing AT. He seems to be hunched forward and in the lady's dance space. Watching him I think OMG he will be a nightmare to dance with. But from lesson one he led like a dream. I wish I knew how he could look so wrong yet feel so right.
I've often thought it would be interesting if they had a spot somewhere, or even on ITT, where they have a proper instructional spot, to show how to create the action etc., in rumba walks, how exactly to dance a basic samba bota fogo for example.
So would I. SCD really peeks my interest in other dances. I got one of our students teaching me Viennese Waltz basic last night. Problem was he was going on about facing diagonal to the wall and I was still trying to remember that I have to close AND change weigh on step 3. I kept forgetting the weight change and you can imagine what a car crash that was.
They really need to emphasise where the weight should be and the foot pressure into the floor. Otherwise instead of the earthy action wanted, it looks skippy across the floor in the quicker dances.
Yeah, they used to do that as well. Series Six is where everything started moving away from the "dance" element and towards the "X-factoringcelebritytalentlesscrap-ing up" of the show. Blame Moira Ross everyone else does
Skippy - yes that's a better word that airy fairy (which is two!). To me salsa in particular should retain some essence of being quite tribal in nature. I want to see some nod to its African roots in there. This is why I keep using the word earthy. It doesn't have to be smut or raunch but I do feel it should speak of our ancestral roots. Does that make any sense?
VW is a disceptively difficult dance to master, as it is so very technical. The footwork is very precise and a dead giveaway if you don't know what you are doing, ie certain steps, the heel must not be placed. As you say, it is all danced on the diagonal with linear swing down the room, on naturals. Beautiful dance but exhausting though...
Fair enough I will too!:)
Yes, indeed it does. I think all latin dances, including salsa should be earthy and rhythmic.
Forgive me posting this here A Throp , but it's the best place to find you!
I promised you some sensible advice on footcare and exercises for tango. It has taken me an age to find this article for you so please forgive the delay. I had forgotten that I had stashed it away in a special AT file.
http://argentinetangoclub.org/footcare/
Hope you find it useful. Best wishes for 2014. May we tango 'til we drop! ;-)