I love that scene. Its such a typical story trope to force a character into a confrontation that could easily kill them, when they should just as easily call for backup. Mal's not an idiot. He doesn't mind if his subordinates get the kill!
I also like Book's line about how the Bible is somewhat fuzzy about blowing off people's kneecaps!
I also really liked the part earlier on in the episode when, in spite of requesting that Inara be given her privacy, he nevertheless jumps out of his seat along with everyone else.
And on the topic of this being Joss Whedon's favourite does that hold true for everyone else, as naive as that sounds?
It's not mine. I like some parts of it but overall it didn't work for me. Partly because of how it started with the situation and then jumped back in time. I hate it when shows do that.
I used to think Objects in Space was my favourite, but now I'd go for one of the others. Maybe the one with the Lassiter. Ariel is good for what it reveals about Simon and Jayne, and it's a turning point for River.
With War Stories, why do you think Zoe picked Wash? I tend to take it at face value: if she could only have one of them, she'd rather have her husband. Some people think she picked him because he was weaker; Mal would be more able to cope.
With War Stories, why do you think Zoe picked Wash? I tend to take it at face value: if she could only have one of them, she'd rather have her husband. Some people think she picked him because he was weaker; Mal would be more able to cope.
I agree with your assessment. Zoe picked Wash so matter-of-factly that I just assumed she was effectively saying, 'He's my husband. Who else would I choose?'
I can see why people think differently though. And, thinking about it, there's nothing to say it can't be both.
Trash
- Is that Nathan Fillion's tattoo on... ahem... Mal's naked body or?
- It's a surprise to see Saffron again considering that she reeked of 'one-off character', in my mind at least.
- Are the rest of the crew not going to be in this episode or?
- 'You made me shave off my beard, devil woman.'
- 'You can't miss a place you've never been.'
- This is a bit of a random thought but I've only really seen Nathan Fillion in two roles - this, and as Caleb in Buffy - and in both he seems to have a tendency to call women ****. Typecasting at its worst.
- 'What's she doing on the ship?'
- I'm trying to avoid just listing quotes but I thought Jayne asking the question again was really good too.
- It's interesting that River still seems to 'hold a grudge' against Jayne for betraying both her and Simon a few episodes back. I thought they'd swept that under the carpet for sure.
- I'm really intrigued to know what the twist in this episode will be. Surely it won't be as simple as the heist going wrong because Saffron betrays them?
- See, I knew that Saffron would encounter one of her husbands in this episode because I read the synopsis. For some reason though, I thought it was referring to Monty so this is a treat.
- I feel really bad for Durran. He was too damn nice.
- I didn't wind up commenting all that much on the end of the episode but all the successive double crosses were brilliant. I definitely need to watch this one again.
- I was going to try and discuss about whether or not 'Saffron' was faking in that last scene with Mal but I can't decide - it's too hard. My gut instinct though was that she intentionally tricked him again.
- With the exception of maybe the first scene after the credits, I think the final scene between Jayne and the Tams was my favourite. It also reminded me of Inara a little in the sense she too put her differences aside to help a crew member out (though Inara strikes me as less dangerous, and as not having a younger sister who could kill Jayne with her brain at any moment.)
- To conclude, I don't have much else to say apart from I quite liked this episode and thought it went well.
With War Stories, why do you think Zoe picked Wash? I tend to take it at face value: if she could only have one of them, she'd rather have her husband. Some people think she picked him because he was weaker; Mal would be more able to cope.
I'm totally on the side of "she chose the one she cared about most." Heck, I'd say she chose Wash because she cared about him a whole huge deal more than Mal - and Mal is her closest and oldest friend.
Niska's whole offer was his sadistic way of trying to make her suffer by making her choose who she cares about more. He wants to make her choose because he thinks she will be forever tormented by the fact that she had to "prioritise her friends." Zoe's unwavering response was her way of saying "I know who means more to me and you're not going to make me feel guilty about knowing it."
I mean, its not really all that complex, in my view. What person would actually leave their own husband or wife behind? No-one, that's who.
- I'm relieved the recap was incredibly brief for this episode. Since Netflix has the episodes out of order from last episode on, I was half expecting it to spoil a couple of major plots.
- I knew that Simon would put his foot in his mouth just then. Personally, I was hoping he'd put a sock in it instead.
- That being said, does anyone else feel like Kaylee comes down a little too hard on him whenever he makes a mistake?
- 'My food is problematic.'
- Spoilers for Buffy and Angel:
Knowing Jonathan M. Woodward's track record when it comes to playing characters in the Whedonverse, I bet anything he's killed off before the episode's end.
- Although you could argue he's quite a generic character, I think the guy playing the Alliance fed is pretty imposing. I also thought he was played by Jon Hamm at first.
- I was wondering when Tracey was going to wake up. (Side note but this episode's gone incredibly fast. It's strange to think that there's only twenty minutes left).
- I love the idea of someone being an organ smuggler. This probably sounds dumb and misinformed but that genuinely feels like a thing people will resort to doing one day.
- This is a bit of a random comment – plus not to mention long overdue – but I actually really like the design of the Serenity ship – inside and out. I think it's a real testament to everybody involved in the show that it already feels like such a homely place.
- And has Wash always kept his dinosaur toys on the bridge?
- Speaking of which, Wash and Jayne have the best reactions to everything.
- Even though you can tell it's distinctly fake, I think the CGI work on the show is for the most part impressive. It also helps knowing that it comes from 2002/2003.
- After that final scene, I think Tracey is Jonathan M. Woodward's best Whedonverse performance. As for the character, I found both him and his story really engrossing. I sensed he would turn on them before the end credits rolled but 'of course' I thought he turn out to be in cahoots with the feds.
- Aside from the Kaylee/Tracey story which I thought was a little too cliché – that being a girl falls out with a guy and makes nice with the new guy in town – I thought this was quite a strong episode and pretty engaging. My favourite moment was probably when the fed threatened to set the guy on the fire but I also liked Book shutting him down and Jayne receiving his hat as well. My only real criticism is looking back it doesn't feel like all that much happened but then again I quite liked the slower pace. I suppose though it's another example of character triumphing over plot at the end of the day.
When you watched them all, go to youtube for the blooper real. The one from 'The Message' is my favourite.
I might just wind up buying the DVD actually what it almost being Christmas and all. That, and some of the commentaries are meant to be really good too.
Heart of Gold
- I resisted commenting on Kaylee's 'stiff' comment at the time but now that they've showed it again in the recap... Yeah, that's a poor choice of words. Simon should've called her out on it maybe.
- I wonder what Rance wants with the baby. Reason tells me his wife can't have children – that, or he wants to kill it so as to prevent her from finding out that he had an affair?
- 'Were you unwed, I would take you in a manly fashion.'
- I'd almost certainly find Jayne's behaviour in the **** house pretty contemptible were I there in real life (I just don't really like men who grope random women) but IDK I thought it was somewhat funny seeing how enthusiastic he was. That probably sounds like a double standard, don't it?
- Speaking of funny, Mal's fake laugh is fantastic.
- I'm so glad that Zoe and Wash had a conversation about whether or not to have a child. Not that they needed it but the whole thing helped them feel a lot more real and grounded.
- 'Who do you suppose is in there?'
- I sensed there might be a bit of a tryst between Mal and that woman. I keep expecting her to betray him though.
- I also wonder if he might be a virgin? I know his character doesn't exactly scream out as such but that's why I think it might be an interesting twist. His first love is his crew and his ship.
- 'Jayne you are aware your radio is transmitting because I don't feel particularly girlish or dirty at the moment.'
- I also wouldn't be at all surprised if Jayne actually managed to get the girl he's with pregnant.
- Inara.
- It also doesn't surprise me that Mal's lady friend died.
- I don't know why but Rance's exit felt a little bit forced if only because I'm surprised the girl was able to be walking perfectly fine not long after giving birth. Then again I don't really know how much time had elapsed but I would wager that it wasn't long.
- Rance in general also felt a little bit one note and stereotypical. It was a good performance don't get me wrong but there was very little to his character other than the misogyny element and I wasn't really scared, repulsed or enamored by that because as I say it felt like such familiar territory.
- Were there another season to come after this, I would definitely expect to see Inara again. Since there's only one more episode and a move left however, I'm not so sure. What is the movie supposed to be based on? I remember reading somewhere that Joss had a 7 year plan so is Serenity just the abridged version of season 2?
- To conclude, I think this was probably the weakest episode of Firefly yet. It had lots of enjoyable moments but it didn't really leave much of an impact on me because, as mentioned above, I didn't feel the elements involved were all that original. There was nothing I hadn't seen before that hadn't been handled better elsewhere. I'm also really confused as to how they expect to resolve River Tam's story in the time they have left because that's arguably the core theme of the season. That is unless they're going to deal with it in Serenity as well?
I'm also really confused as to how they expect to resolve River Tam's story in the time they have left because that's arguably the core theme of the season. That is unless they're going to deal with it in Serenity as well?
To be honest, that's all Serenity really is, the River Tam story. It's fabulous anyway but in my mind its only real purpose, apart from giving these wonderful characters a proper farewell, is to explain River.
This is just a random post but I was watching an episode of Dollhouse earlier on and someone said of Summer Glau's character, 'Bet you could kill me with your brain.'
Yeah, I don't have much else to say other than that.
Well, aside from this...
Objects in Space
- I wonder if they're showing us Mal and Jayne's confrontation in Ariel again because the latter's going to sacrifice himself to save the Tams at some point?
- It's a surprise to see Inara still on the ship. I mean it makes sense what with there being only one episode left but I thought for sure she'd have scarpered by now.
- I love the cinematic stylings of this episode already. The shot with River listening in from below was great as was the bit where she found the gun.
- 'Psychic? That sounds like something out of science fiction.' 'You live in a spaceship, dear.'
- 'No one likes the idea of hearing your thoughts.'
- It was such a small moment but I also really liked Zoe comforting Wash when they flashed back to Niska.
- I apologise if this review is coming off a lot more nondescript than usual but I thought Kaylee's fretting of the word space bugs was similarly good as was Mal's double take with the bounty hunter before beginning to fight him.
- Speaking of whom, it's a little surreal to see a bounty hunter spouting all these philosophical tidbits. It's a good contrast with River I guess (they both perceive things in an unusual way) and it adds an interesting dimension to his character as well but I suppose what I'm trying to say is he doesn't really feel like a bounty hunter. That's a good thing though at the end of the day because Jubal feels like a normal person (rape threat aside) as opposed to some sort of Boba Fett rip-off or stereotype.
- 'Am I a lion?'
- Also, is it too predictable to assume that River will save the rest of the crew?
- 'That ain't no Shepard.'
- I wonder if River Tam's just positioned herself inside the other ship?
- I seriously thought Mal would have more of a role within this episode. That being said, the story is a lot more effective however with the knowledge that most of the crew is out of commission.
- I find it frustrating that Inara didn't do more to help Simon. Don't know why. (Maybe because Jubal was being quite misogynistic towards her)?
- The shot where Jayne rolled over in the bed and ignored the guns was brilliant.
- I guessed it but still the reveal of River took me by surprise. I was starting to buy that she had really had merged with the ship for a minute.
- Is River going to go with Jubal thereby setting up the Serenity movie? Whatever happens, I'm half expecting there to be a cliffhanger come the end.
- Again apologies about the nondescript but the scene where River and Mal reunited was ace.
- I loved the final shot and how it hearkened back to Jubal's comment about how no one notices the objects in space. I also wonder if that's a criticism of religion as well because this episode seemed to deal quite strongly in perception and the meaning behind things?
- If you can't tell, I loved this episode. It was really suspenseful after a point and it dealt with themes and concepts that whilst I'm not especially familiar with I'm fascinated by (a quick Google search informed me this was something of a commentary on existentialism and life.) Jubal Early was also an effective antagonist and I really enjoyed the direction of the piece - especially in regards to the slow motion scenes. Ultimately, one of my favourite episodes in the show so far - if not my favourite.
Now you've finished the series you've got the option of reading the Graphic Novel Those Left Behind or going straight onto Serenity (film).
Though released after the film the GN is set between Objects in Space and Serenity.
I don't think there's anything in the GN that really spoils the film (others may disagree) but it does set up some things for the film and ties up some loose ends from the series that the film doesn't address.
The other Graphic Novels can be read after seeing Serenity.
Of interest this is the order the episodes were originally shown in the U.S
"The Train Job"
"Bushwhacked"
"Our Mrs. Reynolds"
"Jaynestown"
"Out of Gas"
"Shindig"
"Safe"
"Ariel"
"War Stories"
"Objects in Space"
"Serenity"
Trash, The Message and Heart of Gold did not air at all in the original run.
Now you've finished the series you've got the option of reading the Graphic Novel Those Left Behind or going straight onto Serenity (film).
Though released after the film the GN is set between Objects in Space and Serenity.
I don't think there's anything in the GN that really spoils the film (others may disagree) but it does set up some things for the film and ties up some loose ends from the series that the film doesn't address.
The other Graphic Novels can be read after seeing Serenity.
I think I'll probably wind up watching Serenity first to be perfectly honest and see what sort of things it addresses/resolves. If there's anything I'm particularly itching to know that's left unanswered, I can always go go back and read Those Left Behind at a later date.
Of interest this is the order the episodes were originally shown in the U.S
"The Train Job"
"Bushwhacked"
"Our Mrs. Reynolds"
"Jaynestown"
"Out of Gas"
"Shindig"
"Safe"
"Ariel"
"War Stories"
"Objects in Space"
"Serenity"
Trash, The Message and Heart of Gold did not air at all in the original run.
For some reason, I now want to go back and watch the show in this order and see how well the story holds up...
For some reason, I now want to go back and watch the show in this order and see how well the story holds up...
Are you cwazzyyyyy.
Obviously it didn't hold up cos audience figures were dire. You got to view the series as the makers intended you to, so why possibly spoil things by viewing the crappy-order
It's certainly my favorite episode. Aside from the mystery of the episode, you also got to see how everyone ended up on the Serenity.
It's my favourite too. You get everyone's background (how they came to be on the ship). You get the story of how Mal got Serenity and you get a nice smushy ending ....
Remember I said how Mal loves his ship? This is where you see that .. He didn't leave her when she was crippled. He couldn't. He's too attached to her. It's a love affair which started in a ship scrapyard.
Valourant, with reference to Jayne, he isn't particularly intimidating to most of the crew, but he IS totally untrustworthy and could turn on a dime .. As we discovered when he turned on the men he had come with and joining Mal's crew (also the funniest segment! Joss really does dialogue so well!)
I'm so glad you got to discover this series - it's so brilliant, all the more so for being so short-lived.
The film is amazing. I hope you'll be able to see it soon and let us know what you think.
My least favourite episode. The plot makes no sense. The story relies on Mal not telling Tracey his plan, when there was no reason to keep it secret. Basically he was just being a dick. The dénouement was anticlimactic and didn't work. The stuff between Kaylee and Simon didn't work for me either; I would expect better of her. The mantra about not being able to walk was repeated too many times.
Jubal was an interesting character. I think to be that good at what you do, in this universe, means you can't be just a thug. I like how he seemed to know how to deal with each of the ship's crew.
- Is River going to go with Jubal thereby setting up the Serenity movie? Whatever happens, I'm half expecting there to be a cliffhanger come the end.
I believe War Stories was the last episode filmed. I doubt they knew whether there'd be a movie when they wrote OiS.
I always thought 'Hearts of Gold' came after 'The Message'. I may be wrong but at the beginning of 'Hearts of Gold' (the previously on Firefly bit) didn't we see Tracey with Kaylee .
Therefore 'The Message' must of been filmed before 'Hearts of Gold'.
I always thought 'Hearts of Gold' came after 'The Message'. I may be wrong but at the beginning of 'Hearts of Gold' (the previously on Firefly bit) didn't we see Tracey with Kaylee .
Therefore 'The Message' must of been filmed before 'Hearts of Gold'.
I think 'Heart of Gold' does come after 'The Message' because you're right about the recap bit but I suppose they just filmed it out of order due to cast availability or some such like that?
I always thought 'Hearts of Gold' came after 'The Message'. I may be wrong but at the beginning of 'Hearts of Gold' (the previously on Firefly bit) didn't we see Tracey with Kaylee .
Therefore 'The Message' must of been filmed before 'Hearts of Gold'.
The "previously on" is just editing, and not really an indication of when the episodes were filmed (the Heart of Gold "previously on" also has a scene from the next episode Objects in Space). It becomes irrelevant if you own the series on disc anyway as the episodes don't have the previously on bit, well, not on Blu Ray anyway.
- The only thing I know about this movie is that the ending makes it impossible for the show to come back (or something like that, so said the words of a disgruntled fan.) So I guess Zoe must be right about the ship being a deathtrap then?
- In spite of that, I still think the ending might be Serenity taking off into the distance as the tagline of the show seems to be keep flying no matter what.
- It was a surprise to see the Universal logo at the very beginning since I'd completely forgotten this received a cinematic release. That, and I thought the show was owned by Fox!
- Is that girl playing young River the same actress who played her in the episode Safe?
- I wonder if the Alliance maybe created Reavers somehow or they're secretly in league with them instead? I'm just thinking about this because there's likely only going to be room for one main antagonist and such an approach might be a novel to way include them both.
- Chiwetel Ejiofor? No way! The way he incapacitates people before death also looks incredibly painful.
- On a less enthusiastic note, I seriously hope this isn't another bounty hunter plot - especially coming so soon after Objects in Space.
- I loved the musical score when Serenity first appeared on screen; it really complimented the majesty of the moment. In fact, the scope and scale is a lot more impressive than I thought it would be since I was aware they more or less made it on a dirt cheap budget - comparatively speaking.
- I also love Summer Glau's face and the expressions they make. (I'm referring to the scene where River indicated to Zoe that one of the men on the floor was alarmed). Why did Mal want her on the mission though? Her intuition? Or did he just want River to pull her weight?
- It's only just occurring to me that we haven't seen Book at all so far nor Inara. I can understand the latter but where is the old preacher these days?
- Reavers! Yes! They're the things I most wanted to be in this movie!
- Are all kids shows evil in the Whedonverse? First there was Smile Time and now there's this...
- The movie is based off what was supposed to be season 2, yes? Urgh I want to travel to a parallel universe and see that so bad - especially because I imagine there would have been a proper arc where River Tam got to play evil. Now that would have been exciting to watch.
- Huh. Mr. Universe is a lot more thin than I was expecting. (I also thought that might be Book's nickname at first but I can't think for the life of me why he'd be called that by the rest of the crew).
- So Inara's either the main antagonist or she's being hunted down. Personally, I'd quite like it if it was the former. I mean virtually all the rest of the cast have played a villain at some point so I think it's high time she joined the club too. That being said, I'm not entirely sure I'd buy it.
- I was a little surprise at first to see that Book had left the crew. I know he expressed misgivings about his place there back in the pilot but I thought he might have worked past them by now.
- You can't just show us Adam Baldwin with a guitar and then not let him sing!
- The movie would not have been complete would seeing Mal wear a fancy dress of some description so I am very glad of that. All we need now is the Hands of Blue to make an appearance, and maybe Badger as well. In fact, I think the Hands of Blue should have been the ones hunting down the crew as opposed to Chiwetel Ejiofor's character.
- 'For a woman schooled in telling men what they want to hear you ain't much of a liar.'
- Also, I like that Mal seems to have met his match in Ejiofor's character.
- I'm glad that someone called Mal out on the battle of Serenity Valley. Not because I thought it was just but rather because the ensuing scene was pretty fantastic.
- Perhaps River Tam will wind up becoming the main antagonist in the movie after all? Even if she does though I'm sure they'll forgive her in the end. That, or she'll die.
- Urgh. What a waste of Shepard Book in this movie. His death scene was quite good though fueled by strong performances from both Nathan Fillion and Ron Glass.
- Aside from that, my only real gripe with the movie so far is that the lighting makes the interior of the ship look a little too different. (It wasn't much of a surprise to learn afterwards that they had to built the thing from scratch).
- 'I don't kill children.' 'I do if I have to.'
- Mal's plan is the most distressing thing we've seen from him. In fact, it might well be the only distressing thing. He's usually quite a nonchalant captain.
- I wonder if one of the crew might get turned into a Reaver en-route to Miranda? I'm going to guess Wash - if anyone - because he seems the most scared.
- You know sometimes I wish I was wrong...
- The space chase if you will between Serenity, the Alliance and the Reavers was pretty spectacular. CGI done right, in my humble opinion. I am a little surprised though that cannibalistic predators know how to pilot a ship as they don't strike me as the most sophisticated bunch.
- It was such a small touch but one of my favourite moments in all the film was when Jayne was checking to see if everybody was strapped in tight.
- Wash's death and Zoe's reaction seriously have me goosebumps all over.
- Also, just so you know, I watched this film late last night back to back with the finales of Angel and Dollhouse and yeah... Without wanting to spoil too much, I don't think I've ever seen so many Whedonverse characters die in one consecutive sitting. Poor Zoe and Wash.
- For the record, I think his death - out of all those deaths - might just be the 'worse' one of all.
- 'Do you really think any of us are going to get through this?' 'Well, I might.'
- I feel a tad awful that the most productive comment I can muster up in regards to Morena Baccarin's presence is that I really, really like the dress that she's wearing. She hasn't really been given much material to work with which is somewhat of a shame because, although Inara's not my favourite character, she put in a good performance in the TV series. Minus the dress comment, I have by and large the same sentiments about Sean Maher.
- It's always difficult for me to commentate on action sequences without sounding ten but... that was one mighty fine action sequence.
- So now they're going to kill Simon and Kaylee off too? I hope not! She has too much to live for.
- With the exception of Inara I think, is there a character who hasn't been shot at some point?
- Ah I knew River Tam would sort of get to save the day in the end.
- The funeral scene was really understated and brief but that made it more upsetting I think. Part of me does wish that we'd seen more of Zoe's grieving process but it might have been a tad uncharacteristic had we seen her constantly crying on screen.
- The shot of Serenity in the rain was perhaps my favourite in the whole movie. And, with the exception of River Tam fulfilling the role of the pilot, the ending is pretty much what I thought it would be. That's nice.
- To conclude, I actually enjoyed that a lot and it held my interest from start to finish. The only bones I want to pick are that some of the cast weren't used as much as they probably should and - perhaps this is just me - but in some parts it felt a little too bleak. I didn't think it was dark don't get me wrong but rather one of the things I loved about the show was how well it balanced humour and drama. Here, I felt the drama took over too much. That's a bit of a stupid thing to say though really because obviously the more dramatic elements had to take precedence and, to the movie's credit, I genuinely did feel like the entire crew in danger. Aside from that... wow. I can't believe it's over already.
Attention, this is the Captain. We might experience some slight turbulence...and then explode.
I love this film. Before I saw it, I'd already heard that two of the main characters would die. But the wound the tension up so high n that final battle, that even after Wash died, I was still feeling that they might kill of more...or even all of them. Only thing I really don't like about this film is that it was the last we got to see of this crew.
Storm's getting worse.
We'll pass through it soon enough.
I love this film. Before I saw it, I'd already heard that two of the main characters would die. But the wound the tension up so high n that final battle, that even after Wash died, I was still feeling that they might kill of more...or even all of them.
Yeah I'd actually had it spoilt that Wash and Book died (a troll post on a non Firefly/Serenity Discussion board I unluckily was reading the day before I saw the film) but still felt another one or two might be killed off in the final fight.
Comments
I also really liked the part earlier on in the episode when, in spite of requesting that Inara be given her privacy, he nevertheless jumps out of his seat along with everyone else.
I used to think Objects in Space was my favourite, but now I'd go for one of the others. Maybe the one with the Lassiter. Ariel is good for what it reveals about Simon and Jayne, and it's a turning point for River.
With War Stories, why do you think Zoe picked Wash? I tend to take it at face value: if she could only have one of them, she'd rather have her husband. Some people think she picked him because he was weaker; Mal would be more able to cope.
I agree with your assessment. Zoe picked Wash so matter-of-factly that I just assumed she was effectively saying, 'He's my husband. Who else would I choose?'
I can see why people think differently though. And, thinking about it, there's nothing to say it can't be both.
Trash
- Is that Nathan Fillion's tattoo on... ahem... Mal's naked body or?
- It's a surprise to see Saffron again considering that she reeked of 'one-off character', in my mind at least.
- Are the rest of the crew not going to be in this episode or?
- 'You made me shave off my beard, devil woman.'
- 'You can't miss a place you've never been.'
- This is a bit of a random thought but I've only really seen Nathan Fillion in two roles - this, and as Caleb in Buffy - and in both he seems to have a tendency to call women ****. Typecasting at its worst.
- 'What's she doing on the ship?'
- I'm trying to avoid just listing quotes but I thought Jayne asking the question again was really good too.
- It's interesting that River still seems to 'hold a grudge' against Jayne for betraying both her and Simon a few episodes back. I thought they'd swept that under the carpet for sure.
- I'm really intrigued to know what the twist in this episode will be. Surely it won't be as simple as the heist going wrong because Saffron betrays them?
- See, I knew that Saffron would encounter one of her husbands in this episode because I read the synopsis. For some reason though, I thought it was referring to Monty so this is a treat.
- I feel really bad for Durran. He was too damn nice.
- I didn't wind up commenting all that much on the end of the episode but all the successive double crosses were brilliant. I definitely need to watch this one again.
- I was going to try and discuss about whether or not 'Saffron' was faking in that last scene with Mal but I can't decide - it's too hard. My gut instinct though was that she intentionally tricked him again.
- With the exception of maybe the first scene after the credits, I think the final scene between Jayne and the Tams was my favourite. It also reminded me of Inara a little in the sense she too put her differences aside to help a crew member out (though Inara strikes me as less dangerous, and as not having a younger sister who could kill Jayne with her brain at any moment.)
- To conclude, I don't have much else to say apart from I quite liked this episode and thought it went well.
I'm totally on the side of "she chose the one she cared about most." Heck, I'd say she chose Wash because she cared about him a whole huge deal more than Mal - and Mal is her closest and oldest friend.
Niska's whole offer was his sadistic way of trying to make her suffer by making her choose who she cares about more. He wants to make her choose because he thinks she will be forever tormented by the fact that she had to "prioritise her friends." Zoe's unwavering response was her way of saying "I know who means more to me and you're not going to make me feel guilty about knowing it."
I mean, its not really all that complex, in my view. What person would actually leave their own husband or wife behind? No-one, that's who.
- I'm relieved the recap was incredibly brief for this episode. Since Netflix has the episodes out of order from last episode on, I was half expecting it to spoil a couple of major plots.
- I knew that Simon would put his foot in his mouth just then. Personally, I was hoping he'd put a sock in it instead.
- That being said, does anyone else feel like Kaylee comes down a little too hard on him whenever he makes a mistake?
- 'My food is problematic.'
- Spoilers for Buffy and Angel:
- Although you could argue he's quite a generic character, I think the guy playing the Alliance fed is pretty imposing. I also thought he was played by Jon Hamm at first.
- I was wondering when Tracey was going to wake up. (Side note but this episode's gone incredibly fast. It's strange to think that there's only twenty minutes left).
- I love the idea of someone being an organ smuggler. This probably sounds dumb and misinformed but that genuinely feels like a thing people will resort to doing one day.
- This is a bit of a random comment – plus not to mention long overdue – but I actually really like the design of the Serenity ship – inside and out. I think it's a real testament to everybody involved in the show that it already feels like such a homely place.
- And has Wash always kept his dinosaur toys on the bridge?
- Speaking of which, Wash and Jayne have the best reactions to everything.
- Even though you can tell it's distinctly fake, I think the CGI work on the show is for the most part impressive. It also helps knowing that it comes from 2002/2003.
- After that final scene, I think Tracey is Jonathan M. Woodward's best Whedonverse performance. As for the character, I found both him and his story really engrossing. I sensed he would turn on them before the end credits rolled but 'of course' I thought he turn out to be in cahoots with the feds.
- Aside from the Kaylee/Tracey story which I thought was a little too cliché – that being a girl falls out with a guy and makes nice with the new guy in town – I thought this was quite a strong episode and pretty engaging. My favourite moment was probably when the fed threatened to set the guy on the fire but I also liked Book shutting him down and Jayne receiving his hat as well. My only real criticism is looking back it doesn't feel like all that much happened but then again I quite liked the slower pace. I suppose though it's another example of character triumphing over plot at the end of the day.
I might just wind up buying the DVD actually what it almost being Christmas and all. That, and some of the commentaries are meant to be really good too.
Heart of Gold
- I resisted commenting on Kaylee's 'stiff' comment at the time but now that they've showed it again in the recap... Yeah, that's a poor choice of words. Simon should've called her out on it maybe.
- I wonder what Rance wants with the baby. Reason tells me his wife can't have children – that, or he wants to kill it so as to prevent her from finding out that he had an affair?
- 'Were you unwed, I would take you in a manly fashion.'
- I'd almost certainly find Jayne's behaviour in the **** house pretty contemptible were I there in real life (I just don't really like men who grope random women) but IDK I thought it was somewhat funny seeing how enthusiastic he was. That probably sounds like a double standard, don't it?
- Speaking of funny, Mal's fake laugh is fantastic.
- I'm so glad that Zoe and Wash had a conversation about whether or not to have a child. Not that they needed it but the whole thing helped them feel a lot more real and grounded.
- 'Who do you suppose is in there?'
- I sensed there might be a bit of a tryst between Mal and that woman. I keep expecting her to betray him though.
- I also wonder if he might be a virgin? I know his character doesn't exactly scream out as such but that's why I think it might be an interesting twist. His first love is his crew and his ship.
- 'Jayne you are aware your radio is transmitting because I don't feel particularly girlish or dirty at the moment.'
- I also wouldn't be at all surprised if Jayne actually managed to get the girl he's with pregnant.
- Inara.
- It also doesn't surprise me that Mal's lady friend died.
- I don't know why but Rance's exit felt a little bit forced if only because I'm surprised the girl was able to be walking perfectly fine not long after giving birth. Then again I don't really know how much time had elapsed but I would wager that it wasn't long.
- Rance in general also felt a little bit one note and stereotypical. It was a good performance don't get me wrong but there was very little to his character other than the misogyny element and I wasn't really scared, repulsed or enamored by that because as I say it felt like such familiar territory.
- Were there another season to come after this, I would definitely expect to see Inara again. Since there's only one more episode and a move left however, I'm not so sure. What is the movie supposed to be based on? I remember reading somewhere that Joss had a 7 year plan so is Serenity just the abridged version of season 2?
- To conclude, I think this was probably the weakest episode of Firefly yet. It had lots of enjoyable moments but it didn't really leave much of an impact on me because, as mentioned above, I didn't feel the elements involved were all that original. There was nothing I hadn't seen before that hadn't been handled better elsewhere. I'm also really confused as to how they expect to resolve River Tam's story in the time they have left because that's arguably the core theme of the season. That is unless they're going to deal with it in Serenity as well?
Yeah, I don't have much else to say other than that.
Well, aside from this...
Objects in Space
- I wonder if they're showing us Mal and Jayne's confrontation in Ariel again because the latter's going to sacrifice himself to save the Tams at some point?
- It's a surprise to see Inara still on the ship. I mean it makes sense what with there being only one episode left but I thought for sure she'd have scarpered by now.
- I love the cinematic stylings of this episode already. The shot with River listening in from below was great as was the bit where she found the gun.
- 'Psychic? That sounds like something out of science fiction.' 'You live in a spaceship, dear.'
- 'No one likes the idea of hearing your thoughts.'
- It was such a small moment but I also really liked Zoe comforting Wash when they flashed back to Niska.
- I apologise if this review is coming off a lot more nondescript than usual but I thought Kaylee's fretting of the word space bugs was similarly good as was Mal's double take with the bounty hunter before beginning to fight him.
- Speaking of whom, it's a little surreal to see a bounty hunter spouting all these philosophical tidbits. It's a good contrast with River I guess (they both perceive things in an unusual way) and it adds an interesting dimension to his character as well but I suppose what I'm trying to say is he doesn't really feel like a bounty hunter. That's a good thing though at the end of the day because Jubal feels like a normal person (rape threat aside) as opposed to some sort of Boba Fett rip-off or stereotype.
- 'Am I a lion?'
- Also, is it too predictable to assume that River will save the rest of the crew?
- 'That ain't no Shepard.'
- I wonder if River Tam's just positioned herself inside the other ship?
- I seriously thought Mal would have more of a role within this episode. That being said, the story is a lot more effective however with the knowledge that most of the crew is out of commission.
- I find it frustrating that Inara didn't do more to help Simon. Don't know why. (Maybe because Jubal was being quite misogynistic towards her)?
- The shot where Jayne rolled over in the bed and ignored the guns was brilliant.
- I guessed it but still the reveal of River took me by surprise. I was starting to buy that she had really had merged with the ship for a minute.
- Is River going to go with Jubal thereby setting up the Serenity movie? Whatever happens, I'm half expecting there to be a cliffhanger come the end.
- Again apologies about the nondescript but the scene where River and Mal reunited was ace.
- I loved the final shot and how it hearkened back to Jubal's comment about how no one notices the objects in space. I also wonder if that's a criticism of religion as well because this episode seemed to deal quite strongly in perception and the meaning behind things?
- If you can't tell, I loved this episode. It was really suspenseful after a point and it dealt with themes and concepts that whilst I'm not especially familiar with I'm fascinated by (a quick Google search informed me this was something of a commentary on existentialism and life.) Jubal Early was also an effective antagonist and I really enjoyed the direction of the piece - especially in regards to the slow motion scenes. Ultimately, one of my favourite episodes in the show so far - if not my favourite.
Though released after the film the GN is set between Objects in Space and Serenity.
I don't think there's anything in the GN that really spoils the film (others may disagree) but it does set up some things for the film and ties up some loose ends from the series that the film doesn't address.
The other Graphic Novels can be read after seeing Serenity.
Of interest this is the order the episodes were originally shown in the U.S
"The Train Job"
"Bushwhacked"
"Our Mrs. Reynolds"
"Jaynestown"
"Out of Gas"
"Shindig"
"Safe"
"Ariel"
"War Stories"
"Objects in Space"
"Serenity"
Trash, The Message and Heart of Gold did not air at all in the original run.
I think I'll probably wind up watching Serenity first to be perfectly honest and see what sort of things it addresses/resolves. If there's anything I'm particularly itching to know that's left unanswered, I can always go go back and read Those Left Behind at a later date.
For some reason, I now want to go back and watch the show in this order and see how well the story holds up...
Obviously it didn't hold up cos audience figures were dire. You got to view the series as the makers intended you to, so why possibly spoil things by viewing the crappy-order
It's my favourite too. You get everyone's background (how they came to be on the ship). You get the story of how Mal got Serenity and you get a nice smushy ending ....
Remember I said how Mal loves his ship? This is where you see that .. He didn't leave her when she was crippled. He couldn't. He's too attached to her. It's a love affair which started in a ship scrapyard.
Valourant, with reference to Jayne, he isn't particularly intimidating to most of the crew, but he IS totally untrustworthy and could turn on a dime .. As we discovered when he turned on the men he had come with and joining Mal's crew (also the funniest segment! Joss really does dialogue so well!)
I'm so glad you got to discover this series - it's so brilliant, all the more so for being so short-lived.
The film is amazing. I hope you'll be able to see it soon and let us know what you think.
My least favourite episode. The plot makes no sense. The story relies on Mal not telling Tracey his plan, when there was no reason to keep it secret. Basically he was just being a dick. The dénouement was anticlimactic and didn't work. The stuff between Kaylee and Simon didn't work for me either; I would expect better of her. The mantra about not being able to walk was repeated too many times.
Jubal was an interesting character. I think to be that good at what you do, in this universe, means you can't be just a thug. I like how he seemed to know how to deal with each of the ship's crew.
I believe War Stories was the last episode filmed. I doubt they knew whether there'd be a movie when they wrote OiS.
The Message was the last filmed IIRC with the cast being told the show was cancelled during filming.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Message_%28Firefly%29#Production_notes
Therefore 'The Message' must of been filmed before 'Hearts of Gold'.
I think 'Heart of Gold' does come after 'The Message' because you're right about the recap bit but I suppose they just filmed it out of order due to cast availability or some such like that?
The "previously on" is just editing, and not really an indication of when the episodes were filmed (the Heart of Gold "previously on" also has a scene from the next episode Objects in Space). It becomes irrelevant if you own the series on disc anyway as the episodes don't have the previously on bit, well, not on Blu Ray anyway.
- The only thing I know about this movie is that the ending makes it impossible for the show to come back (or something like that, so said the words of a disgruntled fan.) So I guess Zoe must be right about the ship being a deathtrap then?
- In spite of that, I still think the ending might be Serenity taking off into the distance as the tagline of the show seems to be keep flying no matter what.
- It was a surprise to see the Universal logo at the very beginning since I'd completely forgotten this received a cinematic release. That, and I thought the show was owned by Fox!
- Is that girl playing young River the same actress who played her in the episode Safe?
- I wonder if the Alliance maybe created Reavers somehow or they're secretly in league with them instead? I'm just thinking about this because there's likely only going to be room for one main antagonist and such an approach might be a novel to way include them both.
- Chiwetel Ejiofor? No way! The way he incapacitates people before death also looks incredibly painful.
- On a less enthusiastic note, I seriously hope this isn't another bounty hunter plot - especially coming so soon after Objects in Space.
- I loved the musical score when Serenity first appeared on screen; it really complimented the majesty of the moment. In fact, the scope and scale is a lot more impressive than I thought it would be since I was aware they more or less made it on a dirt cheap budget - comparatively speaking.
- I also love Summer Glau's face and the expressions they make. (I'm referring to the scene where River indicated to Zoe that one of the men on the floor was alarmed). Why did Mal want her on the mission though? Her intuition? Or did he just want River to pull her weight?
- It's only just occurring to me that we haven't seen Book at all so far nor Inara. I can understand the latter but where is the old preacher these days?
- Reavers! Yes! They're the things I most wanted to be in this movie!
- Are all kids shows evil in the Whedonverse? First there was Smile Time and now there's this...
- The movie is based off what was supposed to be season 2, yes? Urgh I want to travel to a parallel universe and see that so bad - especially because I imagine there would have been a proper arc where River Tam got to play evil. Now that would have been exciting to watch.
- Huh. Mr. Universe is a lot more thin than I was expecting. (I also thought that might be Book's nickname at first but I can't think for the life of me why he'd be called that by the rest of the crew).
- So Inara's either the main antagonist or she's being hunted down. Personally, I'd quite like it if it was the former. I mean virtually all the rest of the cast have played a villain at some point so I think it's high time she joined the club too. That being said, I'm not entirely sure I'd buy it.
- I was a little surprise at first to see that Book had left the crew. I know he expressed misgivings about his place there back in the pilot but I thought he might have worked past them by now.
- You can't just show us Adam Baldwin with a guitar and then not let him sing!
- The movie would not have been complete would seeing Mal wear a fancy dress of some description so I am very glad of that. All we need now is the Hands of Blue to make an appearance, and maybe Badger as well. In fact, I think the Hands of Blue should have been the ones hunting down the crew as opposed to Chiwetel Ejiofor's character.
- 'For a woman schooled in telling men what they want to hear you ain't much of a liar.'
- Also, I like that Mal seems to have met his match in Ejiofor's character.
- I'm glad that someone called Mal out on the battle of Serenity Valley. Not because I thought it was just but rather because the ensuing scene was pretty fantastic.
- Perhaps River Tam will wind up becoming the main antagonist in the movie after all? Even if she does though I'm sure they'll forgive her in the end. That, or she'll die.
- Urgh. What a waste of Shepard Book in this movie. His death scene was quite good though fueled by strong performances from both Nathan Fillion and Ron Glass.
- Aside from that, my only real gripe with the movie so far is that the lighting makes the interior of the ship look a little too different. (It wasn't much of a surprise to learn afterwards that they had to built the thing from scratch).
- 'I don't kill children.' 'I do if I have to.'
- Mal's plan is the most distressing thing we've seen from him. In fact, it might well be the only distressing thing. He's usually quite a nonchalant captain.
- I wonder if one of the crew might get turned into a Reaver en-route to Miranda? I'm going to guess Wash - if anyone - because he seems the most scared.
- You know sometimes I wish I was wrong...
- The space chase if you will between Serenity, the Alliance and the Reavers was pretty spectacular. CGI done right, in my humble opinion. I am a little surprised though that cannibalistic predators know how to pilot a ship as they don't strike me as the most sophisticated bunch.
- It was such a small touch but one of my favourite moments in all the film was when Jayne was checking to see if everybody was strapped in tight.
- Wash's death and Zoe's reaction seriously have me goosebumps all over.
- Also, just so you know, I watched this film late last night back to back with the finales of Angel and Dollhouse and yeah... Without wanting to spoil too much, I don't think I've ever seen so many Whedonverse characters die in one consecutive sitting. Poor Zoe and Wash.
- For the record, I think his death - out of all those deaths - might just be the 'worse' one of all.
- 'Do you really think any of us are going to get through this?' 'Well, I might.'
- I feel a tad awful that the most productive comment I can muster up in regards to Morena Baccarin's presence is that I really, really like the dress that she's wearing. She hasn't really been given much material to work with which is somewhat of a shame because, although Inara's not my favourite character, she put in a good performance in the TV series. Minus the dress comment, I have by and large the same sentiments about Sean Maher.
- It's always difficult for me to commentate on action sequences without sounding ten but... that was one mighty fine action sequence.
- So now they're going to kill Simon and Kaylee off too? I hope not! She has too much to live for.
- With the exception of Inara I think, is there a character who hasn't been shot at some point?
- Ah I knew River Tam would sort of get to save the day in the end.
- The funeral scene was really understated and brief but that made it more upsetting I think. Part of me does wish that we'd seen more of Zoe's grieving process but it might have been a tad uncharacteristic had we seen her constantly crying on screen.
- The shot of Serenity in the rain was perhaps my favourite in the whole movie. And, with the exception of River Tam fulfilling the role of the pilot, the ending is pretty much what I thought it would be. That's nice.
- To conclude, I actually enjoyed that a lot and it held my interest from start to finish. The only bones I want to pick are that some of the cast weren't used as much as they probably should and - perhaps this is just me - but in some parts it felt a little too bleak. I didn't think it was dark don't get me wrong but rather one of the things I loved about the show was how well it balanced humour and drama. Here, I felt the drama took over too much. That's a bit of a stupid thing to say though really because obviously the more dramatic elements had to take precedence and, to the movie's credit, I genuinely did feel like the entire crew in danger. Aside from that... wow. I can't believe it's over already.
I love this film. Before I saw it, I'd already heard that two of the main characters would die. But the wound the tension up so high n that final battle, that even after Wash died, I was still feeling that they might kill of more...or even all of them. Only thing I really don't like about this film is that it was the last we got to see of this crew.
Storm's getting worse.
We'll pass through it soon enough.
and her "My turn" is my favourite line from the movie
Yeah I'd actually had it spoilt that Wash and Book died (a troll post on a non Firefly/Serenity Discussion board I unluckily was reading the day before I saw the film) but still felt another one or two might be killed off in the final fight.