Satellite to entire apartment block - IRS?

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  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    finding out what skyscr is would be a good start.

    i hav given one or two whopping big klews.

    (tired of austin powers so morphing into moleswoth gd weedy swot cry wot? all hail st custards kriket teem ....)
  • grahamlthompsongrahamlthompson Posts: 18,486
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    spiney2 wrote: »
    finding out what skyscr is would be a good start.

    i hav given one or two whopping big klews.

    (tired of austin powers so morphing into moleswoth gd weedy swot cry wot? all hail st custards kriket teem ....)

    I know what skyscr is. It's nothing to do with using two sat tuners on a single lnb connection with only one controlling the lnb, which you said won't work. It will and gives a surprisingly good choice of 2nd channels to record on a Humax Freesat box. Close to 48% of available TV channels for the low band transponders. What's more switching BBC SD regions to record can often make the other 48% available.

    As an example recording BBC1-HD and BBC-HD on a foxsat-hdr with only one lnb lets you view and live pause any of the following.

    A Sky box lets you record only one and no 3rd channels at all.
    121 Channel 4 + 1
    122 E4
    123 E4 +1
    124 More4
    975 Channel 4 + 1
    103 ITV 1 London
    103 ITV 1 Granada
    103 ITV 1 Anglia North
    103 ITV 1  Central West
    113 ITV2
    117 ITV4
    602 CITV
    977 ITV 1 London (audio described)
    101 BBC One
    201 BBC Parliament
    952 BBC 1 E Mids
    953 BBC 1 East (E)
    964 BBC 1 Wales
    963 BBC 1 W Mids
    967 BBC 1 Eyrks*L
    971 BBC 2 W
    101 BBC One
    110 BBC ALBA
    956 BBC 1 NE & C
    957 BBC 1 NI
    958 BBC 1 Oxford
    961 BBC 1 South
    962 BBC 1 S West
    969 BBC 2 NI
    108 BBC1 HD
    109 BBC HD
    103 STV
    103 UTV
    112 ITV1 + 1
    115 ITV3
    116 ITV3 +1
    731 Talk Sport Radio
    119 ITV 1 HD (Granada)
    126 CH4 HD
    209 NHK World TV - HD
    304 Movies4Men
    306 Movies4Men2
    724 Absolute Radio 
    726 Absolute 80's 
    728 WRN 
    729 JazzFM
    777 Insight Radio 
    790 TWR Radio
    307 Movies4men2+1
    403 Showcase
    504 B4U Music
    651 Renault TV
    692 Revelation
    142 True Ent
    302 True Movies 1
    303 True Movies 2
    500 Chart Show TV
    501 The Vault
    502 Flava
    503 Scuzz
    516 ChartShowTV + 1
    517 Bliss
    603 POP
    604 POPGirl
    605 Tiny pop
    606 Kix
    134 CBS Drama
    204 Euronews
    652 Psychic Today
    870 Babestation
    875 PlayboyTV Chat
    205 France 24
    208 Bloomberg TV
    801 price drop
    693 Islam Channel
    815 Jewellery Ch
    203 Al Jazeera English
    

    Not too shabby for a single cable. You can connect two of them to a pair of cables.


    Why do you keep on bringing up a total red herring.

    SCR is not involved, have you got it now ?

    http://myhumax.org/forum/topic/what-can-i-record-and-watch-using-1-or-2-cables
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    skyscr uses the Global mdu boxes. these pass through 4 multiswitch outlets and add a 5th channelised output which can be used by up to 4 sky digiboxes that have the special chips & software. no longer made but still available refurbished.

    no non sky sat receivers can use this system.

    all this is not very helpful to OPer
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    obviously u cant use a humax in scr mode on an smatv system. all this rubbish is just confusing the OPer.

    sky scr was intended for already installed smatv systems with single drop cables. so you could fairly easily have dual tuner sat in at least some apartments without directly modifying the existing cabling which is often impractical. but takeup was low so they quietly let it lapse .......
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    if a humax is connected to smatv and scr mode is selected, it will get nothing.

    some sat receivers may indeed let you record 2 complete muxes at once and even watch a 3rd with a 3rd tuner. but this is highly confusing for the OPer and essentially not relevant.
  • grahamlthompsongrahamlthompson Posts: 18,486
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    spiney2 wrote: »
    if a humax is connected to smatv and scr mode is selected, it will get nothing.

    some sat receivers may indeed let you record 2 complete muxes at once and even watch a 3rd with a 3rd tuner. but this is highly confusing for the OPer and essentially not relevant.

    I never said it would, all this from a passing remark that a Foxsat-hdr has scr capabilities along with dozens of other boxes. Apart from that I have never mentioned scr lnb's. I also have never said you can record a complete transponder at once either :confused:

    Can you please refrain from mentioning scr it has no relevance whatsoever, why do you think it does :confused:

    Either you are being deliberately obtuse or not a clue what you are talking about.

    The Foxsat-hdr like other Humax twin tuner pvrs has two tuners not three. It can only record two channels at once (well it can in effect with the right software that allows you to copy the timeshift buffer file to a PC but that's not really relevant here :D), while doing so you can watch some third channels and in the right circumstances also time shift a third using only two tuners connected to a standard universal lnb, also a feature of Humax Freeview Pvrs. It's German cousin the Icord utilises the full capability of the two tuners, it can record up to 4 channels at once - no scr lnb required.

    SCR mode is not involved when used in single cable mode tuner 1 controls a conventional universal lnb or multiswitch port. Like many satellite boxes it has a lnb 1 out socket. This is used to feed tuner 2, a connection mode you stated won't work due to control clashes (There aren't any).

    The box is intelligent enough to recognise the single cable connection and will only let you select 2nd channels you can record from the epg and indicate which 3rd channels you can also watch while recording two.

    To anyone with a limited number of potential lnb connections the information is highly relevant. Afaik it's the only twin tuner satellite pvr that can offer two channel recording with a single lnb connection.

    Why do you keep on about scr lnb's it's simply not relevant.
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    icstm is giving minimal info to not reveal location. I suspect this is in fact Dr Evils secret lair in exrinct volcano under richmond hill. smatv is to keep several hundred henchmen happy while waiting for goverernment answer to latest demands.

    or maybe not. but sounds like very big install so will probably involve price haggling tween contractor and supplier with possibly minimal input from residents .......

    originally i just mentioned skyscr in passing ....
  • grahamlthompsongrahamlthompson Posts: 18,486
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    spiney2 wrote: »
    originally i just mentioned skyscr in passing ....

    So did I :D

    Thank you Stanley Unwin for your helpfull post :D:D
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    i just want to explain the switchy fiddly thing which as eveyone knows you see lets the multi connecty channelise with your actual hypotenuse squario and polarised when it feeds the large collider part down the wiring and through into the other side which conectivises electrowise and by newtons third law allows the jiggly poke poke electrotopodes to approach more closely and then you can swicth it upwise but always make sureifact and indeedify reversely conjunctifrome under a reverse floppiter sometimes......
  • grahamlthompsongrahamlthompson Posts: 18,486
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    spiney2 wrote: »
    i just want to explain the switchy fiddly thing which as eveyone knows you see lets the multi connecty channelise with your actual hypotenuse squario and polarised when it feeds the large collider part down the wiring and through into the other side which conectivises electrowise and by newtons third law allows the jiggly poke poke electrotopodes to approach more closely and then you can swicth it upwise but always make sureifact and indeedify reversely conjunctifrome under a reverse floppiter sometimes......

    Please use a spell checker, electrotopodes should be electritopodes :confused:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 303
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    The Foxsat-hdr like other Humax twin tuner pvrs has two tuners not three. It can only record two channels at once (well it can in effect with the right software that allows you to copy the timeshift buffer file to a PC but that's not really relevant here :D), while doing so you can watch some third channels and in the right circumstances also time shift a third using only two tuners connected to a standard universal lnb, also a feature of Humax Freeview Pvrs. It's German cousin the Icord utilises the full capability of the two tuners, it can record up to 4 channels at once - no scr lnb required.
    I think I at least am clear what you are saying. Basically as they are saying a single connection from the lnb you can view 2 channels but you are limited to the channels available on that multiplex frequency.
    What I liked about your list of channels is how many useful channels can still be received.
    spiney2 wrote: »
    icstm is giving minimal info to not reveal location. I suspect this is in fact Dr Evils secret lair in exrinct volcano under richmond hill. smatv is to keep several hundred henchmen happy while waiting for goverernment answer to latest demands.

    or maybe not. but sounds like very big install so will probably involve price haggling tween contractor and supplier with possibly minimal input from residents
    How much information do you require, closer to London than Richmond but right direction :)
    Yes it is mainly being decided between the managing agent and the contractors. Not sure how much haggling was done. The MA used their surveyors to actually run the tendering process and compare quotations. However if there are particular design considerations or other decisions that impact residents they do tend to listen.
  • grahamlthompsongrahamlthompson Posts: 18,486
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    icstm wrote: »
    I think I at least am clear what you are saying. Basically as they are saying a single connection from the lnb you can view 2 channels but you are limited to the channels available on that multiplex frequency.
    What I liked about your list of channels is how many useful channels can still be received.


    .

    Open this file in your browser

    http://humaxgoodies.weebly.com/freesat-channels-by-transponder.html



    Look at col 5 there are 4 coloured blocks. Each one is the Freesat epg channels that the 4 sections of the quattro lnb feeding the multiswitch can access.

    You can record any two channels in the same colour as col 5 at the same time.

    Now look at cols 1-4, these show what channels each individual transponder (MUX) carries.

    What 3rd channels you can view while recording two depends on which transponders the two recordings are being made from.

    If both recordings are from the same transponder (Like the BBC-HD BBC1-HD example) then you can view any other channel in the same colour in col 5. In this case you can also use the live pause (time shifting capability as well. The Humax tuners can record two channels at the same time from the same transponder.

    If both recordings are from different transponders then you can view any other channel sharing a transponder with either recording.

    For example here are two transponders from the sheet
    105 Channel 5	10964	H
    128 Channel 5 + 1	10964	H
    129 5 USA	10964	H
    130 5 USA + 1	10964	H
    131 5*	10964	H
    132 5* + 1	10964	H
    
    137 CBS Action	11222	H
    139 horror CH+1	11222	H
    733 Heart radio	11222	H
    786 BFBS Radio 	11222	H
    807 Jewellery Maker	11222	H
    141 BET + 1	11222	H
    

    If you are say Recording 105 Channel 5 and 137 CBS Action you can 3rd view any other channel in the list

    Note the postcode you use to set up Freesat changes the regional variation in the epg for ITV1, ITV1-HD and ITV1+1. This will vary what you can view whie recording two (All the BBC regions are in the epg).

    In addition you can use the box in non-freesat mode this gives access to around 500 free to air Radio and TV stations from 28.2/28.5E (including the ones that happen to be on the Freesat epg)

    Full list

    http://en.kingofsat.net/freqs.php?&pos=28.2E&standard=All&ordre=freq&filtre=Clear

    Whatever you are recording you can also view an existing recording including the ones that you are currently recording (Viewing an ongoing recording behind real time is known as chasing playback)
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    on mi kindle in stuck train but will reply later
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 303
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    your kindle is clearly demonstrating its battery life. And given that it can browse sites like this, there is clearly good reason to get the free 3G if they still do that.

    @grahamlthompson
    I like the sneaky fact that actually the Humax actually allows you to record 2 and watch 1, something that Freeview tends to boast about. OK, you have a limited set of situations where this works, but I like the fact it does!
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    helo again icstm or should i say dr evil ? am entirely ok about your plans for toal world domination, but please spare the cat its so cuddly .....

    kindle is best invention since sex & horribly addictive im afraid. this post on my kindle. obviously only profits from other sales allow amazon to offer free 3G connectivity so although the browsing is brilliant file downloading is severely limited. no video or audio streaming obviously. and battery life on 3G is no better than other mobile devices.

    as for your original post i think the main concern would be multisat. I'll post again later today ......
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    not on kindle ...

    u mentioned multisat. most smatv in uk is single sat 28E only. obviously, any apartment buildings in london will be cosmopolitan and increasingly so. If you want mutlisat make that very clear and forcibly. trying to add it on later will be difficult and expensive.

    look again at spaun diagram. it's fairly easy to have just the top cascade multiswitch 13 wire, and the rest 5 wire (28E + terrestrial only). Obviously if a ground floor flat then wants mutlisat it means a long dropwire from top floor since bottom floor will be 5 wire only (depending on topology used, which depends on building size/layout etc) so have some spare cables and spare outlets on EVERY floor .....

    ...... with SMATV the installation is very expensive. so the temptation is to cut cost to the bone with minimal size install and no multisat. this is huge mistake, remember calling back installers later to modify what has been done is going to get hugely expensive.

    if youre going to have any multisat then to start with the 13 wire multiswitch and necessary trunk cabling should installed, along with the 13 wires to roof. even at this stage you have only a single sky dish ........

    ....... and dont get a 9 wire switch for multisat, go for 13 wire 3 satellites .......
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    .... then you can add the other sat antennas later and connect up as required. uk law allows at least 1 medium + l large dish on roof (depending on building height). at the very least this permits 1 60cm dish for sky, and then 1 80cm dish for hotbird and astra1 together (only 3 degrees apart in sky so both antennae on a bracket on 1 dish is fine, even for smatv instead of single receiver). all antennae are quattro, of course, with 4 wires per satellite as previously explained .......
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    .... and the standard install is 2 drop wires per flat which you should have. trying to save a little money with only 1 drop wire for some flats but not others is completely bonkers as previously explained.

    i mentioned skyscr because that was the original response to twin tuner satellite (originally just sky+) - where only 1 dropwire per flat exists - but as said this is defunct now and in any case wont work with any non sky sat receivers, whereas the extra dropwire will of course.
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    as graham points out there might be the occasional demand for 3 drop wires. make sure u have a certain amount of both xtra cables and xtra multiswitch outlets. i say again, trying to cut costs to the bone initially is a big mistake.

    ... the extra cables should go straight down riser from top to bottom. for multisat on ground floor you then just use one of these cables. and use line amplifiers for length if necessary. other possible uses migh mean cutting these cables on other floors (the cut ends can always be re-joioned later if required).
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    each dropwire can feed only a single sat receiver. but the single "tv" socket can feed several freesat receivers using passive splitters. obviously, splitting the freesat signal halves the power, and brings the digital cliff closer! so make sure the terrestrial signal distribution has plenty of "headroom".
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    whether residents want a "return" single coax extension from main to bed room in their own flats - or some other sort of wiring - is up to them! this is not part of the main smatv system. missing it out in a particular flat might be expensive later for that resident, but doesnt affect the main system at all.
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    as graham says, various "exotic" receivers are available. some linux sat receivers used by enthusiasts do have 3 tuners, then there's all the plugin computer cards where software is flexible and you can do just about anything. but the actual receiver type - sat or terr - does not affect the smatv system. all this does is deliver the signal.
  • spiney2spiney2 Posts: 27,058
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    a big problem here is commercial confidentiality. people allowed to see the tenders are usually non techy accountant types, unlikely to spot obvious and possible problems ........

    when you scale that up to the size of, lets say, a government procured computer contract ........
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 303
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    @spiney2
    Thank you again for taking the time - for this I will spare the cat.

    Yes, I would imagine that most of the reviewers of the tenders would not have domain knowledge in this space.

    Though I have queried whether they are 5 wire or 9 wire drops. When I get a reply I will see if 13 wire is possible. I like your suggestion of 13 wire top cascade multiswitches and deploy as required. You are right many of my neighbours are expats / not UK born, so would benefit from non UK channels.

    I still have not heard back from the managing agents (the property manager is new, or at least new to this estate).
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 120
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    A SMATV system only distributes RF signals around a system not Sky IF signals so no Sky or freesat boxes would be connected (other than at the headend). Like they have in hotels

    I think an IRS system is what people are meaning... This carries the TV aerial and Satellite signals..
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