OP is trying to say its not fake in terms of getting hurt and being a rigiourous activity such as other sports.
alwatys find it when funny when people call wrestling fake but watch stuff like eastenders or TOWIE, especially the later,its like some people are convinced its not staged storylines.
MA's personality was an extraneous extra, it was his skill as a boxer that made him a true sportsman. Personally, I'd have preferred it if he never opened his mouth and just stuck to being a boxer. Same goes for all sports men and women. I want to see them perform, not talk or perform like buffoons in interviews before or afterwards. Let them do their talking on the pitch or track, or wherever.
Regards
Mark
People wouldn't talk the way they do about Ali if he'd simply been Cassius Clay, his talent made him a star but his overall package made him an icon.
And it isn't just about talking, it's about having a personality, buidling rivalries. If you love tennis, of course you don't need all that showmanship but if you want to open it up to a wider audience, you do need a character like McEnroe. It's not about people who love a sport watching it, it's about the other people being drawn it.
MA's personality was an extraneous extra, it was his skill as a boxer that made him a true sportsman. Personally, I'd have preferred it if he never opened his mouth and just stuck to being a boxer. Same goes for all sports men and women. I want to see them perform, not talk or perform like buffoons in interviews before or afterwards. Let them do their talking on the pitch or track, or wherever.
It always has been - when the British wrestler Jackie Pallo retired, he wrote the book "You Grunt, I'll Groan" which exposed the whole wrestling scene.
However, I will admit that the vast majority of pro wrestlers are extremely fit athletes, who know their craft well and are able to adapt and improvise as needs be. I would not want to argue with one of them.
People need to remember it's promoted as sports entertainment not a genuine sport. It's basically a TV show which focuses on pre-determined outcomes.
I don't doubt for a second that most of the moves are genuine, though. There's been so many genuine injuries and ALOT of risky stuff involved. Whether you want to give it credibility or not, but the fact is these guys train for years to wrestle at a proper standard. They jump off tall structures, do crazy insane flips, get thrown into and on all sorts of things, get slammed to the mat, thrown in the crowd, kicked and punched in the face (yes the punches aren't delivered at full force but you can't deny most of the assaults aren't painful), rammed into steel cages, hit with weapons (no, the steel chairs aren't made of cardboard :rolleyes:) and all other sorts of things.
"Fixed" is such a negative term though, as it suggests that there is a deliberate deception of the audience involved.
The truth is that any audience member over the age of 12 is "in" on it. The results being pre-determined does not affect ones ability to enjoy how that result comes about, or the wider storylines involved with it.
Austin Aries described pro-wrestling best, I think. He noted how people pay money to see martial arts movie which have pre-determined and controlled fight scenes; all pro-wrestling is is an extended edition of that, played out in real-time in front of a live audience.
For what it's worth, MMA is boring. Give me a staged fight with referee bumps, interferences and ludicrous finishing moves any day
Earlier this year I was in the audience for the Alan Titchmarsh show and Hulk Hogan was on talking about TNA. I can't remember if it was during the 'live' chat or was in an advert break but Hulk confirmed that wrestling back in the day was staged and they mapped out all the moves and who would win.
I thought it quite an eye opener for him to be so open about it.
Wrestling is scripted, like countless other forms of entertainment.
There's no reason to describe it as "fake" or "fixed"
Only for those that still maintain it to be a legitimate sport. Entertainment, yes, sport no. In sports terms it is fake and fixed, in entertainment terms, no more so than any other entertainment contrivance such as films or plays.
I've watched wrestling for years, I never "grew out of it" (hate that phrase) because wrestling grew up with me, when it was aimed at the kids in the late 80's early 90's I was a kid, it then morphed into been for males aged between 18 and 25 from about 1997 onwards, it just so happens I was around that age at that time, so I never stopped watching.
Same here. I started watching when I was 11 in late 1992. I was 17 when the attitude era began, which was just what WWE's target audience was back then.
I've been watching for 20 years, and I'll probably be watching for 20 more.
I hate topics like this, it's obvious what answers your going to get. Anyway, I'll add my opinion.
I've watched wrestling for years, I never "grew out of it" (hate that phrase) because wrestling grew up with me, when it was aimed at the kids in the late 80's early 90's I was a kid, it then morphed into been for males aged between 18 and 25 from about 1997 onwards, it just so happens I was around that age at that time, so I never stopped watching.
As for it been fake, yes we all know the outcomes of the matches are pre-determined and the wrestlers work together to put on a match thats entertaining but the sport can be dangerous and people get hurt all the time. I see wrestling matches as a form of dance but with high impact contact, as that is all it is really.
At the end of the day I don't think anyone would watch wrestling without the storylines, the storylines make people care about a feud or wrestler, the storylines are the key I believe.
OP is trying to say its not fake in terms of getting hurt and being a rigiourous activity such as other sports.
alwatys find it when funny when people call wrestling fake but watch stuff like eastenders or TOWIE, especially the later,its like some people are convinced its not staged storylines.
If wrestling was 100% real then it would be rather grim, one punch in the right place and the fight would be over after less than a minute with a black eye, a broken nose and some missing teeth to show for it.
So although I sometimes cringe when they 'hit' eachother, I'm glad they do that instead of the real thing.
Using the term 'fake' does get under my skin though, even though I don't even watch it anymore.
I tend to think of it as a performance, and performing takes alot of talent and skill. 'Fake' makes it sound like anyone could do it.
People need to remember it's promoted as sports entertainment not a genuine sport. It's basically a TV show which focuses on pre-determined outcomes.
I don't doubt for a second that most of the moves are genuine, though. There's been so many genuine injuries and ALOT of risky stuff involved. Whether you want to give it credibility or not, but the fact is these guys train for years to wrestle at a proper standard. They jump off tall structures, do crazy insane flips, get thrown into and on all sorts of things, get slammed to the mat, thrown in the crowd, kicked and punched in the face (yes the punches aren't delivered at full force but you can't deny most of the assaults aren't painful), rammed into steel cages, hit with weapons (no, the steel chairs aren't made of cardboard :rolleyes:) and all other sorts of things.
They earn their wage and should gain a little respect, more then they get. When a wrestler dies the media don't care unless it is full of scandal.
Same here. I started watching when I was 11 in late 1992. I was 17 when the attitude era began, which was just what WWE's target audience was back then.
I've been watching for 20 years, and I'll probably be watching for 20 more.
If wrestling wasn't scripted, I wouldn't be watching.
I'm seen real combat sports. Personally I find them boring.
I prefer the soap opera, the larger than life characters, the byzantine plots and storylines, the heroes and villains etc...and the choreography, which when done properly, is a thing of beauty.
I think the best word to describe it would actually be a wrestling term - it's a 'work.' It's athletic and made to look as real as possible but they are working the audience to get a reaction. I always think that people who go on to wrestling fans about it being fake are rather missing the point though. Of course wrestling fans know it's fake (other than maybe young kids.) The whole point is that people watch it for the characters and for the excitement of the matches. It's entertainment. I watch it because some of the matches can be damn entertaining and exciting. These people put a lot of work into their craft.
Some may see it as a bit of a soap opera, and perhaps it is, but that doesn't make it less entertaining. Would people stop watching Corrie if I told them that Gail hadn't really been married about 100 times? No. Because suspension of disbelief exists. Obviously.
Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BawUHIlgI-w
This may be a bit of a spotfest (more stunt based than story based) but I'm sure most people would find this match exciting as well as recognizing that 'fake' doesn't mean it don't hurt!
One guy throws a "punch" that is about three feet short of connecting, while he stamps his foot so the microphone under the canvas picks up a big thud, the other goes "Urgh!" and spins round about six times before collapsing to the deck (big thud for the mic again!). He'll then writhe around in agony for a while despite not having been touched at all, and things will proceed in that general fashion for a while until one guy "pins" the other in a predetermined arrangement that has nothing to do with either physically besting the other and everything to do with who the management has decided beforehand should "win".
One guy throws a "punch" that is about three feet short of connecting, while he stamps his foot so the microphone under the canvas picks up a big thud, the other goes "Urgh!" and spins round about six times before collapsing to the deck (big thud for the mic again!). He'll then writhe around in agony for a while despite not having been touched at all, and things will proceed in that general fashion for a while until one guy "pins" the other in a predetermined arrangement that has nothing to do with either physically besting the other and everything to do with who the management has decided beforehand should "win".
"Fake" is as good a word as any to me.
Probably one of the worst descriptions of pro wrestling I've ever read.
I'd suggest you watch some TNA PPV's or the weekly Impact show on Challenge this Sunday at 9pm.
Not going to happen. I prefer my fake drama to be written and acted with some degree of talent, personally.
How come you've got such a strong opinion about something you never watch? I've never watched Revenge but have heard it's good but would never comment about it as I've never seen it.
One guy throws a "punch" that is about three feet short of connecting, while he stamps his foot so the microphone under the canvas picks up a big thud, the other goes "Urgh!" and spins round about six times before collapsing to the deck (big thud for the mic again!). He'll then writhe around in agony for a while despite not having been touched at all, and things will proceed in that general fashion for a while until one guy "pins" the other in a predetermined arrangement that has nothing to do with either physically besting the other and everything to do with who the management has decided beforehand should "win".
"Fake" is as good a word as any to me.
hahaha do some people still think that the punches dont connect at all? lmao
How come you've got such a strong opinion about something you never watch? I've never watched Revenge but have heard it's good but would never comment about it as I've never seen it.
Hey I've been a fan of wrestling in my time (I mean, the user name's a bit of a clue) but this insistence on "it's not fake!!!" is petty semantics. People generally know what it means when it's said that wrestling is fake, it's only touchy fans who try to make some distinction between that and "staged".
Hey I've been a fan of wrestling in my time (I mean, the user name's a bit of a clue) but this insistence on "it's not fake!!!" is petty semantics. People generally know what it means when it's said that wrestling is fake, it's only touchy fans who try to make some distinction between that and "staged".
I never once said it isn't fake, I just didn't agree with your description of wrestling, it's way off the mark imo.
Comments
alwatys find it when funny when people call wrestling fake but watch stuff like eastenders or TOWIE, especially the later,its like some people are convinced its not staged storylines.
People wouldn't talk the way they do about Ali if he'd simply been Cassius Clay, his talent made him a star but his overall package made him an icon.
And it isn't just about talking, it's about having a personality, buidling rivalries. If you love tennis, of course you don't need all that showmanship but if you want to open it up to a wider audience, you do need a character like McEnroe. It's not about people who love a sport watching it, it's about the other people being drawn it.
Couldn't actually disagree with you more.
It always has been - when the British wrestler Jackie Pallo retired, he wrote the book "You Grunt, I'll Groan" which exposed the whole wrestling scene.
However, I will admit that the vast majority of pro wrestlers are extremely fit athletes, who know their craft well and are able to adapt and improvise as needs be. I would not want to argue with one of them.
I don't doubt for a second that most of the moves are genuine, though. There's been so many genuine injuries and ALOT of risky stuff involved. Whether you want to give it credibility or not, but the fact is these guys train for years to wrestle at a proper standard. They jump off tall structures, do crazy insane flips, get thrown into and on all sorts of things, get slammed to the mat, thrown in the crowd, kicked and punched in the face (yes the punches aren't delivered at full force but you can't deny most of the assaults aren't painful), rammed into steel cages, hit with weapons (no, the steel chairs aren't made of cardboard :rolleyes:) and all other sorts of things.
"Fixed" is such a negative term though, as it suggests that there is a deliberate deception of the audience involved.
The truth is that any audience member over the age of 12 is "in" on it. The results being pre-determined does not affect ones ability to enjoy how that result comes about, or the wider storylines involved with it.
Austin Aries described pro-wrestling best, I think. He noted how people pay money to see martial arts movie which have pre-determined and controlled fight scenes; all pro-wrestling is is an extended edition of that, played out in real-time in front of a live audience.
For what it's worth, MMA is boring. Give me a staged fight with referee bumps, interferences and ludicrous finishing moves any day
I thought it quite an eye opener for him to be so open about it.
There's no reason to describe it as "fake" or "fixed"
Regards
Mark
Same here. I started watching when I was 11 in late 1992. I was 17 when the attitude era began, which was just what WWE's target audience was back then.
I've been watching for 20 years, and I'll probably be watching for 20 more.
Nicely put, they are the hardest working people I know. Getting to the top and staying at the top is a full time job for them.
Excellent well thought out post.
This argument is getting tedious using those two shows alone to get points across.
Very true.
Which is why haters use that word I suppose.
They earn their wage and should gain a little respect, more then they get. When a wrestler dies the media don't care unless it is full of scandal.
What a lovely positive post. Best one yet.
I'm seen real combat sports. Personally I find them boring.
I prefer the soap opera, the larger than life characters, the byzantine plots and storylines, the heroes and villains etc...and the choreography, which when done properly, is a thing of beauty.
Wrestling is low brow ballet, and I love it.
Some may see it as a bit of a soap opera, and perhaps it is, but that doesn't make it less entertaining. Would people stop watching Corrie if I told them that Gail hadn't really been married about 100 times? No. Because suspension of disbelief exists. Obviously.
Example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BawUHIlgI-w
This may be a bit of a spotfest (more stunt based than story based) but I'm sure most people would find this match exciting as well as recognizing that 'fake' doesn't mean it don't hurt!
"Fake" is as good a word as any to me.
Probably one of the worst descriptions of pro wrestling I've ever read.
I'd suggest you watch some TNA PPV's or the weekly Impact show on Challenge this Sunday at 9pm.
How come you've got such a strong opinion about something you never watch? I've never watched Revenge but have heard it's good but would never comment about it as I've never seen it.
Like Hulk Hogan in Rocky III?
hahaha do some people still think that the punches dont connect at all? lmao
I never once said it isn't fake, I just didn't agree with your description of wrestling, it's way off the mark imo.