However ............... she met this Danny whatsit bloke on Facebook, had known him only 2 weeks (not sure if the 2 weeks were including Facebook chats) and went off to a hotel room with him.
This is NOT victim blaming. It means though that you need to have your wits about you and not go off with random people you don't know well enough.
But you ARE saying that she is partially responsible though, right? So, it kind of is victim blaming if you are apportioning some of the blame to the victim.
The fact that this guy poured acid over her face is partly her fault is what you're actually saying.
I wouldn't want a daughter to do what Katie Piper did because of the fear of it ending up like it did for Katie Piper. I wouldn't see Katie piper as a suitable role model for my daughter. The inspiration for what she's done with her life with disfigurement is there for everyone.
I wouldn't want a daughter to do what Katie Piper did because of the fear of it ending up like it did for Katie Piper. I wouldn't see Katie piper as a suitable role model for my daughter. The inspiration for what she's done with her life with disfigurement is there for everyone.
I wouldn't want a daughter to do what Katie Piper did because of the fear of it ending up like it did for Katie Piper. I wouldn't see Katie piper as a suitable role model for my daughter. The inspiration for what she's done with her life with disfigurement is there for everyone.
Did she pour/throw the acid over her own face then?
However ............... she met this Danny whatsit bloke on Facebook, had known him only 2 weeks (not sure if the 2 weeks were including Facebook chats) and went off to a hotel room with him.
This is NOT victim blaming. It means though that you need to have your wits about you and not go off with random people you don't know well enough.
There's no 'however' here and it's precisely and wholly victim blaming. And so horribly and pathetically judgemental.
Where and how she met him is irrelevant. She could have met him in a pub/club just as easily and it wouldn't have prevented what happened. The blame lies solely with him and anyone else who carries out such an appalling act of brutality.
That you think she should be judged for this disgusts me. And your 'however' tells me you do.
I've always hated the role model debate when it comes to celebrities. Parents need to stop expecting somebody who they don't know to be perfect. It's not going to happen.
It is the not job of a celebrity to be a role model for kids. Anybody who is an actor, musician, sports star etc is doing it for themselves and their private lives are their own business. I realised at a young age that you can admire someone's work without admiring what they get up to in their spare time. I do find it worrying when young people look up to reality 'stars' like the awful Kardashians and think that this is something to aspire to.
78% for Miley being a bad influence?
On the surface she seems a bit out of control but I actually enjoy her personality and she has a sense of humour about it all. I think she's done pretty well considering she's a child star. So 78% feels pretty steep.
She's a good influence on dads, moms don't like her much
There's no 'however' here and it's precisely and wholly victim blaming. And so horribly and pathetically judgemental.
Where and how she met him is irrelevant. She could have met him in a pub/club just as easily and it wouldn't have prevented what happened. The blame lies solely with him and anyone else who carries out such an appalling act of brutality.
That you think she should be judged for this disgusts me. And your 'however' tells me you do.
I never said she should be judged. What I do think is that it is a warning that you may think you know someone, but you don't, so be careful. Don't go off with random people you don't know. Don't trust people you haven't got to know properly.
This bloke had been following Katie's career and targeted her. She hadn't been with him long enough to know this, or know him, or know he had form for this sort of thing. After the hotel room incident she was too scared of him to go to the police but went to a cafe to read messages from him after all he had done to her and threatened to do to her.
If only she had gone to the police after what he did to her in the hotel.
No. You're confusing being inspired by other people's perseverance through adversity and identifying a person whom you desire your own children to emulate in daily life. To repeat the point again, I would not like a daughter of mine going after bad boys on or off the Internet, especially when a random stranger off the Internet could very possibly turn out to be a lunatic. I would not want my daughter behaving like that.
Pete Doherty deciding to go around schools warning kids of the dangers of drugs may be a good and noble thing. But I would not consider him a good role model for my son. I would be happy for any daughter of mine to end up with the money Katie Price has. But I would disown her if she adopted Jordan as a role model and made it via the same means.
I never said she should be judged. What I do think is that it is a warning that you may think you know someone, but you don't, so be careful. Don't go off with random people you don't know. Don't trust people you haven't got to know properly.
This bloke had been following Katie's career and targeted her. She hadn't been with him long enough to know this, or know him, or know he had form for this sort of thing. After the hotel room incident she was too scared of him to go to the police but went to a cafe to read messages from him after all he had done to her and threatened to do to her.
If only she had gone to the police after what he did to her in the hotel.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and as you yourself say, she was too scared to go to the police. If only he hadn't been a violent psychopath who changed the course of her life forever. Not once have I heard you question him or his motives - simply her behaviour and her unfortunate choices. Victim blaming at its worst.
No. You're confusing being inspired by other people's perseverance through adversity and identifying a person whom you desire your own children to emulate in daily life. To repeat the point again, I would not like a daughter of mine going after bad boys on or off the Internet, especially when a random stranger off the Internet could very possibly turn out to be a lunatic. I would not want my daughter behaving like that.
Pete Doherty deciding to go around schools warning kids of the dangers of drugs may be a good and noble thing. But I would not consider him a good role model for my son. I would be happy for any daughter of mine to end up with the money Katie Price has. But I would disown her if she adopted Jordan as a role model and made it via the same means.
OK, well, personally, I don't desire my own children to emulate anyone in daily life - but that's a moot point I guess. I personally wouldn't want my Son to be someone who is so bitter twisted and vile that he carries out such heinous and obscene acts.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and as you yourself say, she was too scared to go to the police. If only he hadn't been a violent psychopath who changed the course of her life forever. Not once have I heard you question him or his motives - simply her behaviour and her unfortunate choices. Victim blaming at its worst.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and as you yourself say, she was too scared to go to the police. If only he hadn't been a violent psychopath who changed the course of her life forever. Not once have I heard you question him or his motives - simply her behaviour and her unfortunate choices. Victim blaming at its worst.
Feel free to carry on misconstruing what I am saying.
We are talking about role models, and someone brought up Katie.
I am not "questioning him and his motives" because he has never been discussed as any sort of role model in this thread - Katie has.
I still say that if you take care until you know someone properly - if she had carried on this relationship for a bit longer, she would have worked out he was an evil psychopath. She may have been scared, but she may have got support. We will never know.
Don't ever accuse me of blaming Katie for this incident. Though people fling insults all the time on this board, who cares any more??
Feel free to carry on misconstruing what I am saying.
We are talking about role models, and someone brought up Katie.
I am not "questioning him and his motives" because he has never been discussed as any sort of role model in this thread - Katie has.
I still say that if you take care until you know someone properly - if she had carried on this relationship for a bit longer, she would have worked out he was an evil psychopath. She may have been scared, but she may have got support. We will never know.
Don't ever accuse me of blaming Katie for this incident. Though people fling insults all the time on this board, who cares any more??
After the hotel room incident she was too scared of him to go to the police but went to a cafe to read messages from him after all he had done to her and threatened to do to her.
But you don't appear to be blaming him? So if she's not to blame and neither is he - then who is
Why shouldn't she be a role model? She has triumphed in the face of adversity, and has turned a life changing, gruesome event into something that can help others. Yes, she made an error of judgement - something we all do every day; it's part of the human condition. True, hers has had more impact on her life than most, but it still isn't her fault that she was attacked - the fault lies solely with the perpetrators.
As for 'taking time to get to know him a bit better' - well, she could have had the opportunity if she hadn't have been recovering in hospital....
Feel free to carry on misconstruing what I am saying.
We are talking about role models, and someone brought up Katie.
I was the someone who brought up Katie as deserving of admiration, rather than the 'Kate' who happens to appear on that list.
The reason I brought her up is because of how she dealt with something that could have killed her spirit and ruined her life. She is rightly admired for her courage, grit and determination to not let that awful act of violence define her, and for her then to go on to become a very vocal advocate for people living with disfigurement. It's the qualities she's demonstrated post-attack that make her inspiring and admirable.
All you seem to care about is what she did pre-attack.
It is the not job of a celebrity to be a role model for kids. Anybody who is an actor, musician, sports star etc is doing it for themselves and their private lives are their own business. I realised at a young age that you can admire someone's work without admiring what they get up to in their spare time. I do find it worrying when young people look up to reality 'stars' like the awful Kardashians and think that this is something to aspire to.
Inspirational, perhaps. But some might say the circumstances surrounding the attack on her detract from any perception of her as a 'role model'.
She's an example of how young girls' love of a badboy can often lead to more than just exciting conversation. Obviously, hers is an extreme case, but the point is I doubt many parents want their daughters to copy Katie Piper's life, however inspiring what she's done with her life since her disfigurement may be to anyone (young, old, male or female).
Wanting your daughter to turn out like Kate Middleton or Taylor Swift is perfectly understandable, as is not wanting your son to turn out like Joey Essex or Ian Beale.
Bit harsh IMO. Whatever the circumstances that led to the attack, she has turned numerous negatives into positives. We all make mistakes, some more costly than others. Although I hate the phrase 'role model' when used with regards to celebs, she is someone who has genuinely overcome adversity so good luck to her.
Glad you finally Googled what you're posting about.
No, I didn't Google it? For your information, I read about the attack when it was in the papers back then. I said 'Ah' because I then realised who you were talking about.
However ............... she met this Danny whatsit bloke on Facebook, had known him only 2 weeks (not sure if the 2 weeks were including Facebook chats) and went off to a hotel room with him.
This is NOT victim blaming. It means though that you need to have your wits about you and not go off with random people you don't know well enough.
Certainly reads like you are Leicester.
Everything that came before the attack is irrelevant. No matter how you dress it up, he was (is) 100% responsible.
You do realise people do go to hotel rooms with people they have just met (and do not know very well^^^) and they do not end up with sulphuric acid thrown in their face two weeks later. HE is 100% to blame for this. 100%.
How could anybody have foreseen such an outcome? They couldn't. Nobody could. Even with your 'wits about you' ..... She is in no way to blame whatsoever.
Everything that came before the attack is irrelevant. No matter how you dress it up, he was (is) 100% responsible.
You do realise people do go to hotel rooms with people they have just met (and do not know very well^^^) and they do not end up with sulphuric acid thrown in their face two weeks later. HE is 100% to blame for this. 100%.
How could anybody have foreseen such an outcome? They couldn't. Nobody could. Even with your 'wits about you' ..... She is in no way to blame whatsoever.
.................................
..............
The victim-blaming meme is really getting out of hand.
Are we no longer to give strong - example-driven - advice to young people about the necessary precautions of the world we live in; the actual world and not the world we would LIKE to live in?
While the perpetrators in this case are 100% responsible for their actions in this case, so is Katie responsible for HER actions.
She made a mistake. The price she paid for that is criminal and awful and there is universal recognition of how brave and inspirational she has been since.
But it would be socially responsible to tell young people to drink what they want, act how they want, go where they want; because if they come across a 'bad' person and something bad happens, it's 100% the 'bad' person's fault.
Well of course it is; but that doesn't mitigate the risk in advance of the situation arising. And neither does it mitigate the need to tell young people that they need to take precautions because of the harsh realities of the world we are sending them out into.
The victim-blaming meme is really getting out of hand.
Are we no longer to give strong - example-driven - advice to young people about the necessary precautions of the world we live in; the actual world and not the world we would LIKE to live in?
While the perpetrators in this case are 100% responsible for their actions in this case, so is Katie responsible for HER actions.
She made a mistake. The price she paid for that is criminal and awful and there is universal recognition of how brave and inspirational she has been since.
But it would be socially responsible to tell young people to drink what they want, act how they want, go where they want; because if they come across a 'bad' person and something bad happens, it's 100% the 'bad' person's fault.
Well of course it is; but that doesn't mitigate the risk in advance of the situation arising. And neither does it mitigate the need to tell young people that they need to take precautions because of the harsh realities of the world we are sending them out into.
If something bad happens as a result of bad behaviour by 1 individual in that scenario, then yes, surely, the bad person is 100% at fault? If I decide to wear my high heels on a night out and am subsequently attacked and raped and unable to escape because of my footwear, does that mean I am partly to blame? If I'd worn flats I could have run away from my perpetrators, but the high heels made me slower, therefore am I partly at fault? Should I never wear heels again? (Chrissie Hynde would say that yes I am partly responsible). If I have 1 or 2 more glasses of wine than I would normally because it's my Friend's birthday and I am a bit more drunk than is sensible - not paralytic - but a bit piddled - am I to blame for being slightly less compis mentis than normal and subsequently being mugged/attacked? There's a difference between what you espouse here:
to take precautions because of the harsh realities of the world we are sending them out into.
and tangibly actually living life 'normally' - without having to restrict ones' clothing, social interaction etc.
Online dating, for example, is massive, and whilst most reputable sites have safeguards in place, when can you say you really 'know' someone? 6 weeks? Months? Years? If you met someone online, form a relationship and then they rape you 2 years into the relationship, are you at fault for not applying for a police check on that person when you first started dating?
Nobody as far as I can see, is suggesting that educating oneself about social mores is a bad thing and of course everyone wants what's best and safest for their loved ones but if something terrible happens, the person committing the offence is at fault. You're right that Katie made a mistake - we all do - but that does not make her responsible for the attack.
We all make mistakes and errors of judgment and live 'in the moment' from time to time.. That doesn't make us responsible if somebody decides we worthy of attack/rape/murder.
If something bad happens as a result of bad behaviour by 1 individual in that scenario, then yes, surely, the bad person is 100% at fault? If I decide to wear my high heels on a night out and am subsequently attacked and raped and unable to escape because of my footwear, does that mean I am partly to blame? If I'd worn flats I could have run away from my perpetrators, but the high heels made me slower, therefore am I partly at fault? Should I never wear heels again? (Chrissie Hynde would say that yes I am partly responsible). If I have 1 or 2 more glasses of wine than I would normally because it's my Friend's birthday and I am a bit more drunk than is sensible - not paralytic - but a bit piddled - am I to blame for being slightly less compis mentis than normal and subsequently being mugged/attacked? There's a difference between what you espouse here:
to take precautions because of the harsh realities of the world we are sending them out into.
and tangibly actually living life 'normally' - without having to restrict ones' clothing, social interaction etc.
Online dating, for example, is massive, and whilst most reputable sites have safeguards in place, when can you say you really 'know' someone? 6 weeks? Months? Years? If you met someone online, form a relationship and then they rape you 2 years into the relationship, are you at fault for not applying for a police check on that person when you first started dating?
Nobody as far as I can see, is suggesting that educating oneself about social mores is a bad thing and of course everyone wants what's best and safest for their loved ones but if something terrible happens, the person committing the offence is at fault. You're right that Katie made a mistake - we all do - but that does not make her responsible for the attack.
We all make mistakes and errors of judgment and live 'in the moment' from time to time.. That doesn't make us responsible if somebody decides we worthy of attack/rape/murder.
Bit in bold 1 - that is absolutely NOT what Chrissie Hynde was saying. She was talking about her own experiences where she made massive errors of judgement and placed herself in danger. I disagree with her that she shares any of the blame for the rape; but I do agree with her that she is to blame for putting herself in danger. There is a difference and these discussions will keep going around in circles until people learn to separate the two.
Bit in bold 2 - That's exactly my point. She is not responsible for what happened to her; but she is responsible for the mistake she made which put her in danger.
I think she needs to post less pics on her social media feed of her surrounded by bongs and spliffs and generally looking like an anorexic junkie.
She's what a younger Madonna would have been like if social media had existed back then, though Madonna would have been far worse, I think. Anyone remember her Sex book?
Compared with a lot of ex-child stars, she's actually doing pretty well. If the worst thing she's ingesting is a bit of weed, then that puts her way ahead of all the hard drug addicts and alcoholics that were once child stars. She's successfully transitioned to being an adult star.
I do though agree that Miley isn't a particularly good role model for youngsters. She can get away with what she does because she's a performer, but putting stuff like Miley posts onto social media if you want to be a doctor/engineer/most other stuff is going to damage your chances, unfair though that is. Her exhibitionism gets in the way of the positive stuff, and it's the outrageous stuff that kids will focus on (mainly because the media do as well). It's not as if she doesn't work hard after all, and she's done so from a very early age.
One thing Angelina shows is that you can move on from being wild when you're younger and mature and become someone that others can respect, which would make her a good role model for others who have made a bit of a mess of things and think there's no way to turn their life around.
Comments
But you ARE saying that she is partially responsible though, right? So, it kind of is victim blaming if you are apportioning some of the blame to the victim.
The fact that this guy poured acid over her face is partly her fault is what you're actually saying.
No he didn't.
I wouldn't want a daughter to do what Katie Piper did because of the fear of it ending up like it did for Katie Piper. I wouldn't see Katie piper as a suitable role model for my daughter. The inspiration for what she's done with her life with disfigurement is there for everyone.
Isn't that a total contradiction?
Did she pour/throw the acid over her own face then?
There's no 'however' here and it's precisely and wholly victim blaming. And so horribly and pathetically judgemental.
Where and how she met him is irrelevant. She could have met him in a pub/club just as easily and it wouldn't have prevented what happened. The blame lies solely with him and anyone else who carries out such an appalling act of brutality.
That you think she should be judged for this disgusts me. And your 'however' tells me you do.
This, completely.
She's a good influence on dads, moms don't like her much
No more than her boyfriend did.
I never said she should be judged. What I do think is that it is a warning that you may think you know someone, but you don't, so be careful. Don't go off with random people you don't know. Don't trust people you haven't got to know properly.
This bloke had been following Katie's career and targeted her. She hadn't been with him long enough to know this, or know him, or know he had form for this sort of thing. After the hotel room incident she was too scared of him to go to the police but went to a cafe to read messages from him after all he had done to her and threatened to do to her.
If only she had gone to the police after what he did to her in the hotel.
No. You're confusing being inspired by other people's perseverance through adversity and identifying a person whom you desire your own children to emulate in daily life. To repeat the point again, I would not like a daughter of mine going after bad boys on or off the Internet, especially when a random stranger off the Internet could very possibly turn out to be a lunatic. I would not want my daughter behaving like that.
Pete Doherty deciding to go around schools warning kids of the dangers of drugs may be a good and noble thing. But I would not consider him a good role model for my son. I would be happy for any daughter of mine to end up with the money Katie Price has. But I would disown her if she adopted Jordan as a role model and made it via the same means.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and as you yourself say, she was too scared to go to the police. If only he hadn't been a violent psychopath who changed the course of her life forever. Not once have I heard you question him or his motives - simply her behaviour and her unfortunate choices. Victim blaming at its worst.
OK, well, personally, I don't desire my own children to emulate anyone in daily life - but that's a moot point I guess. I personally wouldn't want my Son to be someone who is so bitter twisted and vile that he carries out such heinous and obscene acts.
Thank you, Pru. Precisely.
Okay, I thought what was being said was that no one threw acid in her face. Yeah, her, back then, boyfriend, ordered the attack.
Feel free to carry on misconstruing what I am saying.
We are talking about role models, and someone brought up Katie.
I am not "questioning him and his motives" because he has never been discussed as any sort of role model in this thread - Katie has.
I still say that if you take care until you know someone properly - if she had carried on this relationship for a bit longer, she would have worked out he was an evil psychopath. She may have been scared, but she may have got support. We will never know.
Don't ever accuse me of blaming Katie for this incident. Though people fling insults all the time on this board, who cares any more??
After the hotel room incident she was too scared of him to go to the police but went to a cafe to read messages from him after all he had done to her and threatened to do to her.
But you don't appear to be blaming him? So if she's not to blame and neither is he - then who is
Why shouldn't she be a role model? She has triumphed in the face of adversity, and has turned a life changing, gruesome event into something that can help others. Yes, she made an error of judgement - something we all do every day; it's part of the human condition. True, hers has had more impact on her life than most, but it still isn't her fault that she was attacked - the fault lies solely with the perpetrators.
As for 'taking time to get to know him a bit better' - well, she could have had the opportunity if she hadn't have been recovering in hospital....
I was the someone who brought up Katie as deserving of admiration, rather than the 'Kate' who happens to appear on that list.
The reason I brought her up is because of how she dealt with something that could have killed her spirit and ruined her life. She is rightly admired for her courage, grit and determination to not let that awful act of violence define her, and for her then to go on to become a very vocal advocate for people living with disfigurement. It's the qualities she's demonstrated post-attack that make her inspiring and admirable.
All you seem to care about is what she did pre-attack.
Well said! :kitty:
Bit harsh IMO. Whatever the circumstances that led to the attack, she has turned numerous negatives into positives. We all make mistakes, some more costly than others. Although I hate the phrase 'role model' when used with regards to celebs, she is someone who has genuinely overcome adversity so good luck to her.
Glad you finally Googled what you're posting about.
No, I didn't Google it? For your information, I read about the attack when it was in the papers back then. I said 'Ah' because I then realised who you were talking about.
Certainly reads like you are Leicester.
Everything that came before the attack is irrelevant. No matter how you dress it up, he was (is) 100% responsible.
You do realise people do go to hotel rooms with people they have just met (and do not know very well^^^) and they do not end up with sulphuric acid thrown in their face two weeks later. HE is 100% to blame for this. 100%.
How could anybody have foreseen such an outcome? They couldn't. Nobody could. Even with your 'wits about you' ..... She is in no way to blame whatsoever.
.................................
..............
The victim-blaming meme is really getting out of hand.
Are we no longer to give strong - example-driven - advice to young people about the necessary precautions of the world we live in; the actual world and not the world we would LIKE to live in?
While the perpetrators in this case are 100% responsible for their actions in this case, so is Katie responsible for HER actions.
She made a mistake. The price she paid for that is criminal and awful and there is universal recognition of how brave and inspirational she has been since.
But it would be socially responsible to tell young people to drink what they want, act how they want, go where they want; because if they come across a 'bad' person and something bad happens, it's 100% the 'bad' person's fault.
Well of course it is; but that doesn't mitigate the risk in advance of the situation arising. And neither does it mitigate the need to tell young people that they need to take precautions because of the harsh realities of the world we are sending them out into.
If something bad happens as a result of bad behaviour by 1 individual in that scenario, then yes, surely, the bad person is 100% at fault? If I decide to wear my high heels on a night out and am subsequently attacked and raped and unable to escape because of my footwear, does that mean I am partly to blame? If I'd worn flats I could have run away from my perpetrators, but the high heels made me slower, therefore am I partly at fault? Should I never wear heels again? (Chrissie Hynde would say that yes I am partly responsible). If I have 1 or 2 more glasses of wine than I would normally because it's my Friend's birthday and I am a bit more drunk than is sensible - not paralytic - but a bit piddled - am I to blame for being slightly less compis mentis than normal and subsequently being mugged/attacked? There's a difference between what you espouse here:
to take precautions because of the harsh realities of the world we are sending them out into.
and tangibly actually living life 'normally' - without having to restrict ones' clothing, social interaction etc.
Online dating, for example, is massive, and whilst most reputable sites have safeguards in place, when can you say you really 'know' someone? 6 weeks? Months? Years? If you met someone online, form a relationship and then they rape you 2 years into the relationship, are you at fault for not applying for a police check on that person when you first started dating?
Nobody as far as I can see, is suggesting that educating oneself about social mores is a bad thing and of course everyone wants what's best and safest for their loved ones but if something terrible happens, the person committing the offence is at fault. You're right that Katie made a mistake - we all do - but that does not make her responsible for the attack.
We all make mistakes and errors of judgment and live 'in the moment' from time to time.. That doesn't make us responsible if somebody decides we worthy of attack/rape/murder.
Bit in bold 1 - that is absolutely NOT what Chrissie Hynde was saying. She was talking about her own experiences where she made massive errors of judgement and placed herself in danger. I disagree with her that she shares any of the blame for the rape; but I do agree with her that she is to blame for putting herself in danger. There is a difference and these discussions will keep going around in circles until people learn to separate the two.
Bit in bold 2 - That's exactly my point. She is not responsible for what happened to her; but she is responsible for the mistake she made which put her in danger.
She's what a younger Madonna would have been like if social media had existed back then, though Madonna would have been far worse, I think. Anyone remember her Sex book?
Compared with a lot of ex-child stars, she's actually doing pretty well. If the worst thing she's ingesting is a bit of weed, then that puts her way ahead of all the hard drug addicts and alcoholics that were once child stars. She's successfully transitioned to being an adult star.
I do though agree that Miley isn't a particularly good role model for youngsters. She can get away with what she does because she's a performer, but putting stuff like Miley posts onto social media if you want to be a doctor/engineer/most other stuff is going to damage your chances, unfair though that is. Her exhibitionism gets in the way of the positive stuff, and it's the outrageous stuff that kids will focus on (mainly because the media do as well). It's not as if she doesn't work hard after all, and she's done so from a very early age.
One thing Angelina shows is that you can move on from being wild when you're younger and mature and become someone that others can respect, which would make her a good role model for others who have made a bit of a mess of things and think there's no way to turn their life around.