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It relay did happen the star is the proof we can use computer to run back the positions of the planets , Herod was a real person not fiction the date of his time consists with the star of Bethlehem which was almost certainly the grand conjunction of Jupiter and Venus as opposed to the earlier Jupiter Saturn as suggested in the program
the birth of Jesus has been celebrated for 1000s of years
Unfortunately, the census which they went to bethlehem for didn't happen till 6AD at the earliest.
But Mary's parents aren't given names. The names are from another book not the Bible so the people complaining should complain about that too. There was a Herod the Great but also a Herod Antipas think the later is the nativity one. I loved how it was the pure innocent saintly Carol and Lynda who moaned about this version
I found it ok, but adding the parts such as Mary is 16, when actually she was only 12, it seems the bible is being re-written, also when joseph tries to kiss mary, where in the bible is that?
I find it quite offensive that it is being changed in that way, apart from that the acting is ok.
Even if people have quarms claiming, well you can not make her 12 these days, the fact is , she was and biblical history should not be changed!
I don't think the Bible states her age anywhere, which means you've contradicted yourself. You are offended that this TV programme is including things not referenced in the Bible, yet you think your facts come from the Bible when they do not.
And the Bible is not "being rewritten". It has endured for thousands of years. I don't think a BBC drama is going to change the ink on those pages. This programme seems to be using common non-biblical sources for extra detail, and so far has not done anything disrespectful. (Joseph tried to kiss his wife-to-be?? Shock horror!)
Most people take Mary's age from how old a girl would marry at that time. I don't think the bible says she's a virgin people have just assumed it. Also the virgin issue is different in different parts of the christian church
I enjoyed the first episode, the variety, the story telling of different people's lives.
And I liked the review of 'The Nativity' in the Telegraph, particularly
" ... I want people who have no particular faith, who don’t watch the God Channels, to watch this nativity. And if they have faith, to reinforce it. And if they haven’t, to make them think, ‘Wow, I don’t know, maybe… ’”
Ha. I don't think any light BBC drama is going to make me think, "Wow, I don't know, maybe..." Maybe what? Maybe God exists after all? Maybe I should have faith in something spiritual? Maybe I should throw all of my atheistic logic out of the window because of a story?
It's a nice story that has been drummed into all our brains since infancy, but I'm not finding it very spiritually profound. In fact this BBC show is just making me imagine Joseph sat on Jeremy Kyle's stage, asking for a DNA test!
The programme isn't doing much of a job at explaining why the Messiah's prophesied birth would help the world, or why the world is a better place because of Jesus's existence. As far as I can see, the belief in Jesus Christ has caused the human race to wage war on each other for the last 2000 years.
I'm not being a Annoying Atheist to troll you guys, honest. I'm honestly reacting to that quote above. I'm asking the question: "How on earth would this TV show cause a person without faith to start having faith in Jesus Christ?" And by extension, how is the Nativity an uplifting story?
Most people take Mary's age from how old a girl would marry at that time. I don't think the bible says she's a virgin people have just assumed it. Also the virgin issue is different in different parts of the christian church
The Bible most definitely says she's a virgin! Nearly every English-language translation uses the word "virgin" to describe her in Luke 1:27.
As for the "virgin issue" being debated by different parts of the christian church, I think one major argument is whether she remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus
I thought it jusy said she was young and unmarried and didn't ever use the word virgin. The Catholic church says she always a virgin and other churchs say after Jesus she had other children
I thought it jusy said she was young and unmarried and didn't ever use the word virgin. The Catholic church says she always a virgin and other churchs say after Jesus she had other children
Well I've just checked my iPhone Bible app that lets me see about 20 different translations of the Bible, and nearly all of them use the word "virgin" to describe her in Luke 1:27.
The Catholic church says she always a virgin and other churchs say after Jesus she had other children
According to the Bible Mary didn't remain a virgin after Jesus was born. She had other children; Jesus had brothers and sisters. His brothers are even mentioned by name:
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
Matthew 13:55-56 KJV
The Catholic church believe that Mary remained a virgin her whole life but, like a lot of their beliefs, they didn't actually get that from the Bible.
And by extension, how is the Nativity an uplifting story?
For Christians, the Nativity marks the birth of the Saviour of the world. Jesus came to Earth as a human form of God the Father, he came to take away our sins and show us just how much God loves each and everyone of us. We can choose whether we believe in God, but we can never choose the fact that God believes in us!
Advent is also a time for reflection, prayer and marks a great period of taking stock, thinking about where we're at in our own lives. It's a wonderful time of year.
Christ's mission was to bring about the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth and just for this reason it's incredibly uplifting. That aside, Joseph's humility in accepting the immaculate conception (okay he was advised by Gabriel, but he still accepted) shows great strength of character and shows just what faith can mean to humanity.
I know you probably know this already, and I probably don't make a good case, (nor am I trying to convince you or anyone into what I believe - more like I'm telling you what I believe, and dot dot dot) but to a Christian the Nativity is entirely uplifting. Whether anybody else believes it or not Jesus Christ is who any Christian's entire faith is centred around, so I think it's easy to see why this is an exciting time of year just to celebrate this.
But hey, maybe we shouldn't turn this into a debate -- this isn't the General Discussion!!
Edit: Also in response to your other question, I have absolutely no idea how this TV adaptation could make anyone believe anything, haha. Faith comes through experiences in my experience, not through watching some actors -- as much as I'm enjoying it!!
From what I remember of A Level Religious Knowledge the Greek word used to describe Mary's status translates as a young unmarried woman. You could be unmarried and not a virgin even in those days.
We can choose whether we believe in God, but we can never choose the fact that God believes in us!
That is very true. Using the scientific method we can see there is no evidence for the existence of God but *if* God did exist then he would have plenty of evidence to support our existence.
Christ's mission was to bring about the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth and just for this reason it's incredibly uplifting.
Either he did not succed and this is not the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth or if this is the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth it is not really that nice a place. Epic fail either way.
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I have tried to get into this but have given up- its just too cheap and twee. There's just something about watching white blue eyed western Europeans acting out the middle eastern story.
Detail does matter- when you get scenes set in a Moorish architectural building for example or Mary and her catholic blue clothing it destroys the illusion, the whole thing is ruined by it.
I was hoping it would go more along the lines of Rome, Pillars of the Earth etc in its tale and accuracy (obviously minus the violence etc)
A Modern nativity story that also draws in questions and the magic of the story and moment.
Well Herod killing lots of kids is violent. I hope she looks like she's giving birth. The Nativity Story film had the funniest labour scenes ever. Why do the magi now appear at the birth ? Didn't they not arrive till a year or so after ?
Do a search for Mithras and Mithraism as an example.
The first recorded reference to Mithraism is @ 67BC, Mithras was said to have been born on 25th December by a virgin... sound familiar?
Familiar yes, correct? No.
Many Roman soldiers did worship a mythical god named Mithras, but there is no record of any ancient tradition involving a December 25th birth date for Mithras.
The claim that myth of Mithras involves him being born in a stable or manger, like Jesus, is false. The story of Mithras involves him being hatched from an egg of rock, before time itself began.
As for the "virgin birth" of Mithras, even if one decides to claim that the rock from which Mithras was hatched was a virgin, or that the being or entity that laid the egg of rock was a virgin, any comparisons between this birth scenario and the virgin birth of Jesus, through a human and mortal mother, would be absurd and undignified
Most people take Mary's age from how old a girl would marry at that time. I don't think the bible says she's a virgin people have just assumed it. Also the virgin issue is different in different parts of the christian church
I've read in a number of places that the word used in the original was mis-translated as "virgin", but actually means "woman of marriageable age". Obviously I've no basis on which to judge the truth of this.
I think Luke has a lot to answer for! Most scholars accept Josephus as a valid historical source; but Josephus places the census as 6 AD at earliest, and has absolutely no mention of the "slaughter of the innocents".
Do you know how most biblical scholars get round the problem of the census? The scholars, many of whom insist the bible is word-for-word accurate? They claim the answer is simple - Mark is mistaken, and he really meant an earlier head-count.
I've really been loving this! Tonight's episode gave me a new insight into the shame and embarrassment of it, and the courage needed to face it. Excellent portrayal!
Comments
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Unfortunately, the census which they went to bethlehem for didn't happen till 6AD at the earliest.
Good - I hate to know the ending in advance.
And the Bible is not "being rewritten". It has endured for thousands of years. I don't think a BBC drama is going to change the ink on those pages. This programme seems to be using common non-biblical sources for extra detail, and so far has not done anything disrespectful. (Joseph tried to kiss his wife-to-be?? Shock horror!)
Ha. I don't think any light BBC drama is going to make me think, "Wow, I don't know, maybe..." Maybe what? Maybe God exists after all? Maybe I should have faith in something spiritual? Maybe I should throw all of my atheistic logic out of the window because of a story?
It's a nice story that has been drummed into all our brains since infancy, but I'm not finding it very spiritually profound. In fact this BBC show is just making me imagine Joseph sat on Jeremy Kyle's stage, asking for a DNA test!
The programme isn't doing much of a job at explaining why the Messiah's prophesied birth would help the world, or why the world is a better place because of Jesus's existence. As far as I can see, the belief in Jesus Christ has caused the human race to wage war on each other for the last 2000 years.
I'm not being a Annoying Atheist to troll you guys, honest. I'm honestly reacting to that quote above. I'm asking the question: "How on earth would this TV show cause a person without faith to start having faith in Jesus Christ?" And by extension, how is the Nativity an uplifting story?
The Bible most definitely says she's a virgin! Nearly every English-language translation uses the word "virgin" to describe her in Luke 1:27.
As for the "virgin issue" being debated by different parts of the christian church, I think one major argument is whether she remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus
Well I've just checked my iPhone Bible app that lets me see about 20 different translations of the Bible, and nearly all of them use the word "virgin" to describe her in Luke 1:27.
(Yes, I'm an atheist with a Bible app.)
According to the Bible Mary didn't remain a virgin after Jesus was born. She had other children; Jesus had brothers and sisters. His brothers are even mentioned by name:
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
Matthew 13:55-56 KJV
The Catholic church believe that Mary remained a virgin her whole life but, like a lot of their beliefs, they didn't actually get that from the Bible.
For Christians, the Nativity marks the birth of the Saviour of the world. Jesus came to Earth as a human form of God the Father, he came to take away our sins and show us just how much God loves each and everyone of us. We can choose whether we believe in God, but we can never choose the fact that God believes in us!
Advent is also a time for reflection, prayer and marks a great period of taking stock, thinking about where we're at in our own lives. It's a wonderful time of year.
Christ's mission was to bring about the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth and just for this reason it's incredibly uplifting. That aside, Joseph's humility in accepting the immaculate conception (okay he was advised by Gabriel, but he still accepted) shows great strength of character and shows just what faith can mean to humanity.
I know you probably know this already, and I probably don't make a good case, (nor am I trying to convince you or anyone into what I believe - more like I'm telling you what I believe, and dot dot dot) but to a Christian the Nativity is entirely uplifting. Whether anybody else believes it or not Jesus Christ is who any Christian's entire faith is centred around, so I think it's easy to see why this is an exciting time of year just to celebrate this.
But hey, maybe we shouldn't turn this into a debate -- this isn't the General Discussion!!
Edit: Also in response to your other question, I have absolutely no idea how this TV adaptation could make anyone believe anything, haha. Faith comes through experiences in my experience, not through watching some actors -- as much as I'm enjoying it!!
Just over two thousand give or take a year or two.:)
Either he did not succed and this is not the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth or if this is the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth it is not really that nice a place. Epic fail either way.
Do a search for Mithras and Mithraism as an example.
The first recorded reference to Mithraism is @ 67BC, Mithras was said to have been born on 25th December by a virgin... sound familiar?
Thank you
I have tried to get into this but have given up- its just too cheap and twee. There's just something about watching white blue eyed western Europeans acting out the middle eastern story.
Detail does matter- when you get scenes set in a Moorish architectural building for example or Mary and her catholic blue clothing it destroys the illusion, the whole thing is ruined by it.
I was hoping it would go more along the lines of Rome, Pillars of the Earth etc in its tale and accuracy (obviously minus the violence etc)
A Modern nativity story that also draws in questions and the magic of the story and moment.
Familiar yes, correct? No.
Many Roman soldiers did worship a mythical god named Mithras, but there is no record of any ancient tradition involving a December 25th birth date for Mithras.
The claim that myth of Mithras involves him being born in a stable or manger, like Jesus, is false. The story of Mithras involves him being hatched from an egg of rock, before time itself began.
As for the "virgin birth" of Mithras, even if one decides to claim that the rock from which Mithras was hatched was a virgin, or that the being or entity that laid the egg of rock was a virgin, any comparisons between this birth scenario and the virgin birth of Jesus, through a human and mortal mother, would be absurd and undignified
Taken from http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/q10.htm
I've read in a number of places that the word used in the original was mis-translated as "virgin", but actually means "woman of marriageable age". Obviously I've no basis on which to judge the truth of this.
I think Luke has a lot to answer for! Most scholars accept Josephus as a valid historical source; but Josephus places the census as 6 AD at earliest, and has absolutely no mention of the "slaughter of the innocents".
Do you know how most biblical scholars get round the problem of the census? The scholars, many of whom insist the bible is word-for-word accurate? They claim the answer is simple - Mark is mistaken, and he really meant an earlier head-count.
Just under 2,000 years actually.
I am enjoying this series:)