Gosh - an internet forum poster making grandiouse claims as to his level of knowledge and education - I've never seen that before! This patsylimerick must be telling the truth!
Sarcasm aside, you know as well as I do that a lack of direct evidence against the existence of some theoretical "unexplained intelligent guiding force" is not a valid or rational reason to harbour belief in it, nor to even nurture the groundless concept of it.
You will find that very, very few credible modern scientists harbour faith in a creator (or in an afterlife). They may occasionally use the phrase 'God' a sort of metaphor, but they are not referring to any of the religious Gods, nor to any other intelligent designer or creative entity.
With regard to the concept of an afterlife (which some people continue to believe in), your brain is where you do 100% of your thinking and, when you die, your brain is going to rot.
Well, as you're 22 and I've studied engineering at university, I think I'm on pretty safe ground. Though I did say possibly, as I recall. Bit in bold - no, the lack of evidence against its existence is pretty much an inevitability as you can't prove a negative - but that's purely in scientific terms. The question is, I believe, outside of and beyond science as we understand it.
Don't you do your thinking in your mind? And where's that, then? And can you prove it?...........
They don't unless this 'Creator' has been proposed on the premise that nothing can be self generating. In that case they are an answer that presents with the same problem as the question it is supposed to answer.
Yes, and on and on in ever-decreasing but apparently never-ending circles it goes. I've had this conversation with you before and really enjoyed it. Much more fun than the current one. I usually use the term 'sky fairy' as a little red flag and steer clear.
Well, as you're 22 and I've studied engineering at university, I think I'm on pretty safe ground. Though I did say possibly, as I recall. Bit in bold - no, the lack of evidence against its existence is pretty much an inevitability as you can't prove a negative - but that's purely in scientific terms. The question is, I believe, outside of and beyond science as we understand it.
Don't you do your thinking in your mind? And where's that, then? And can you prove it?...........
You may believe that it's "outside of and beyond science as we understand it" for your own reasons, but it's not a rational belief, and it leads me to doubt your level of basic understanding.
I shan't stoop to the level of listing my own academic credentials - they're none of your business and such things are virtually impossible for any of us to prove via a forum setting in any event.
As for your silly comment about the location of the human mind, it's not even worthy or a reply and leads me to doubt your level of basic understanding even more.
You may believe that it's "outside of and beyond science as we understand it" for your own reasons, but it's not a rational belief, and it leads me to doubt your level of basic understanding.
I shan't stoop to the level of listing my own academic credentials - they're none of your business and such things are virtually impossible for any of us to prove via a forum setting in any event.
As for your silly comment about the location of the human mind, it's not even worthy or a reply and leads me to doubt your level of basic understanding even more.
1. What's irrational about it?
2. Is that because you can't come up with one? Come on now. Where's your mind?
2. Is that because you can't come up with one? Come on now. Where's your mind?
I can. Its a product of the brain. This can be demonstrated not only visually by various imaging methods but by the fact that damage to the brain (or effects of drugs) can alter the mind in ways that are measurable.
If I ask you where is your browser. The fact you cant actually touch it does not mean its not measurable or without evidence.
I can. Its a product of the brain. This can be demonstrated not only visually by various imaging methods but by the fact that damage to the brain (or effects of drugs) can alter the mind in ways that are measurable.
If I ask you where is your browser. The fact you cant actually touch it does not mean its not measurable or without evidence.
I figured patsylimerick was just trolling, but if he actually was being serious then I hope he learns from your post.
I can. Its a product of the brain. This can be demonstrated not only visually by various imaging methods but by the fact that damage to the brain (or effects of drugs) can alter the mind in ways that are measurable.
If I ask you where is your browser. The fact you cant actually touch it does not mean its not measurable or without evidence.
But the brain is connected to every part of your body; so damage to any part of the body could, conceivably, impact on the brain. So where is it, exactly? My browser exists somewhere, doesn't it?
Anyway, that was purely a question to demonstrate that we don't have all of the definitive answers. I'm sure very few people on here feel like Jamie does - that it's stupid to suggest that we don't understand everything. Even Dawkins accepts that Science doesn't have all the answers - he just doesn't think that religion has the ones that science does not. Plenty of other scientists who are absolute leaders in their field go so far as to do the readings at Sunday mass. I'm not a believer by the way, I just think that some people need to do a little bit more reading and thinking about it before condemning anyone with faith or questions about faith as a mindless follower of sky fairies. It's offensive and dense to do so.
But the brain is connected to every part of your body; so damage to any part of the body could, conceivably, impact on the brain. So where is it, exactly? My browser exists somewhere, doesn't it?
Anyway, that was purely a question to demonstrate that we don't have all of the definitive answers. I'm sure very few people on here feel like Jamie does - that it's stupid to suggest that we don't understand everything. Even Dawkins accepts that Science doesn't have all the answers - he just doesn't think that religion has the ones that science does not. Plenty of other scientists who are absolute leaders in their field go so far as to do the readings at Sunday mass. I'm not a believer by the way, I just think that some people need to do a little bit more reading and thinking about it before condemning anyone with faith or questions about faith as a mindless follower of sky fairies. It's offensive and dense to do so.
Well... I assume it's a he - mainly because I get the impression of a bruised ego on his part, which is a typical 'man thing' although I say so myself
Hello - *waves*
Seriously, Jamie, I'd prefer to discuss epistemology than trade insults. There's no trade going on, mind, the insults are all coming in one direction.
One last time. Do you genuinely believe that science has all the answers and it has been proven beyond all debate and to the point of scorn that there can't be a god?
But the brain is connected to every part of your body; so damage to any part of the body could, conceivably, impact on the brain. So where is it, exactly? My browser exists somewhere, doesn't it?
When in a hole, it's best to stop digging, frankly.
By continuing you only make an even bigger fool of yourself.
When in a hole, it's best to stop digging, frankly.
By continuing you only make an even bigger fool of yourself.
Just to explain the concept of a debate. I ask, you answer. You ask, I answer. Not I ask, you hide behind someone else and fling insults. Are you going to answer my questions or not?
But the brain is connected to every part of your body; so damage to any part of the body could, conceivably, impact on the brain. So where is it, exactly?
The brain. Did you really want me to refute what you just said? I can but is it necessary?
I'm sure very few people on here feel like Jamie does - that it's stupid to suggest that we don't understand everything
That's true, but I do think its stupid to fill a gap in knowledge with anything we like and assume its valid, just because the gap was there (if that is part of the argument, it seems to be, but I am dipping in and out of this thread).
That is my personal opinion, its not intended as an insult. People can do one stupid thing doesn't mean they are stupid people.
The brain. Did you really want me to refute what you just said? I can but is it necessary?
That's true, but I do think its stupid to fill a gap in knowledge with anything we like and assume its valid, just because the gap was there (if that is part of the argument, it seems to be, but I am dipping in and out of this thread).
That is my personal opinion, its not intended as an insult. People can do one stupid thing doesn't mean they are stupid people.
The mind is a concept rather than a location; probably because we didn't understand enough about the organ when we came up with the concept. But it's still an interesting concept in terms of the discussion we're having.
Ah, you did miss a vital part - where I said I don't believe in God. Or at least I'm agnostic. That's where we started. With me saying that it was a bit unkind to call everyone with faith a lesser being 'with a mental illness who followed a sky fairy' or words to that effect. That was what I took exception to.
Comments
Well, as you're 22 and I've studied engineering at university, I think I'm on pretty safe ground. Though I did say possibly, as I recall. Bit in bold - no, the lack of evidence against its existence is pretty much an inevitability as you can't prove a negative - but that's purely in scientific terms. The question is, I believe, outside of and beyond science as we understand it.
Don't you do your thinking in your mind? And where's that, then? And can you prove it?...........
Yes, and on and on in ever-decreasing but apparently never-ending circles it goes. I've had this conversation with you before and really enjoyed it. Much more fun than the current one. I usually use the term 'sky fairy' as a little red flag and steer clear.
I shan't stoop to the level of listing my own academic credentials - they're none of your business and such things are virtually impossible for any of us to prove via a forum setting in any event.
As for your silly comment about the location of the human mind, it's not even worthy or a reply and leads me to doubt your level of basic understanding even more.
1. What's irrational about it?
2. Is that because you can't come up with one? Come on now. Where's your mind?
I can. Its a product of the brain. This can be demonstrated not only visually by various imaging methods but by the fact that damage to the brain (or effects of drugs) can alter the mind in ways that are measurable.
If I ask you where is your browser. The fact you cant actually touch it does not mean its not measurable or without evidence.
Holy crap, it is a he. I learned something new.
But the brain is connected to every part of your body; so damage to any part of the body could, conceivably, impact on the brain. So where is it, exactly? My browser exists somewhere, doesn't it?
Anyway, that was purely a question to demonstrate that we don't have all of the definitive answers. I'm sure very few people on here feel like Jamie does - that it's stupid to suggest that we don't understand everything. Even Dawkins accepts that Science doesn't have all the answers - he just doesn't think that religion has the ones that science does not. Plenty of other scientists who are absolute leaders in their field go so far as to do the readings at Sunday mass. I'm not a believer by the way, I just think that some people need to do a little bit more reading and thinking about it before condemning anyone with faith or questions about faith as a mindless follower of sky fairies. It's offensive and dense to do so.
Try talking to me. I'm right here.
Neither an it nor a he. A she. Never unclicked the right button when I registered.
How many can you name that do that?
Ah! I always thought you were a she. Now I haven't learned anything,
Hello - *waves*
Seriously, Jamie, I'd prefer to discuss epistemology than trade insults. There's no trade going on, mind, the insults are all coming in one direction.
One last time. Do you genuinely believe that science has all the answers and it has been proven beyond all debate and to the point of scorn that there can't be a god?
Yes! Found it.
HERE
By continuing you only make an even bigger fool of yourself.
Just to explain the concept of a debate. I ask, you answer. You ask, I answer. Not I ask, you hide behind someone else and fling insults. Are you going to answer my questions or not?
The brain. Did you really want me to refute what you just said? I can but is it necessary?
That's true, but I do think its stupid to fill a gap in knowledge with anything we like and assume its valid, just because the gap was there (if that is part of the argument, it seems to be, but I am dipping in and out of this thread).
That is my personal opinion, its not intended as an insult. People can do one stupid thing doesn't mean they are stupid people.
It doesn't say any of them do the readings at Sunday Mass.
And, even if it did, that's only four. Not a very high ratio really!
The mind is a concept rather than a location; probably because we didn't understand enough about the organ when we came up with the concept. But it's still an interesting concept in terms of the discussion we're having.
Ah, you did miss a vital part - where I said I don't believe in God. Or at least I'm agnostic. That's where we started. With me saying that it was a bit unkind to call everyone with faith a lesser being 'with a mental illness who followed a sky fairy' or words to that effect. That was what I took exception to.
I used Sunday mass because I'm Catholic - my bad. You did ask for any. I think four's quite good, in that length of time