Is R.C. church homophobia acceptable in modern Britian

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  • EmpiricalEmpirical Posts: 10,189
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    SULLA wrote: »
    I think that the law should be sensible.

    I do too.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 36,630
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    SULLA wrote: »
    It appears that Mr Casey WAS right about Christians being in danger of arrest.:(

    How are they in any more danger than the rest of us?.

    If they follow the laws of the land then they wont face arrest. They are free to hold their homophobic views, and to express them, as long as those views do not cross the line into incitement for example. How is that different to non Christians?. or should Christians have special dispensation to break the laws the rest of us have to adhere to?.

    There's a valid argument the laws have perhaps gone slightly too far, but that's a different issue.
  • SchnableSchnable Posts: 1,574
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    SULLA wrote: »
    I think that the law should be sensible.

    And accountable and factual and based on reality.

    Oh well, that counts religion out then.

    If we start allowing people's imaginations of Sky Fairies where will it end and we will have to change the law for the next imagined comfort blanket someone dreams up.

    That's why law is based on fact and not imaginations.
  • bluebladeblueblade Posts: 88,859
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    REDBUS wrote: »
    Know I'll take a bit a stick for this post but seriously ,the constant anti-gay marriage from Roman Catholic church leader's every other day really is getting right on my tit's (and I'm a guy).

    Why do they think this constant homophobic anti-gay rants is acceptable ,these so called Christians, to me,have more in common with Nazi Germany concentration camp's than any thing to do with Jesus.

    Do people think it's more to do with Gay priest's in their church more than anything ,I for one certainly do.

    I've held my tongue long enough, if they don't like it IMO they should BUGGER OFF to a R.C. majority country instead of instigating Religious Apartheid in whatever country accepts these bigots.:mad:


    rant over .

    Funnily enough, the Vatican was allegedly instrumental in arranging the escape of ex SS personnel including war criminals, to South America just after the last war.

    In answer to the thread question, I have absolutely no time for them, and they certainly have no place in modern Britain. Roman Catholicism always seems a very nasty and controlling branch of Christianity to me. Full of abusers.
  • SchnableSchnable Posts: 1,574
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    REDBUS wrote: »
    We condone and legislate against racism and sectarianism why should homophobia be acceptable in this day and age ,whatever your faith / religion...

    Indeed and people blow up others and crash planes into buildings killing 1000s with religion as the excuse.

    Religion should never be an acceptable excuse for anything and is not.

    Can you imagine if the bible instructed its follower to be racist? They would have been stopped years ago and outlawed. But they think they can get away with homophobia and scream about freedom of speech if you dare to object.

    Religion has run out of excuses and no one is accepting religion as an excuse any longer.

    I how long it will take them to realise what has already been happening?
  • Chester666666Chester666666 Posts: 9,020
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    SULLA wrote: »
    Ineed but I get the impression that some would want the law to be changed No because I do not believe him to be deluded.

    If individuals say that they do not believe in gay marriage they should be allowed to say so without being persecuted.

    and what about if those christians then deny pagans same-sex marriage?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 36,630
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    SULLA wrote: »
    Ineed but I get the impression that some would want the law to be changed No because I do not believe him to be deluded.

    If individuals say that they do not believe in gay marriage they should be allowed to say so without being persecuted.

    They are allowed to say so, but people are free to disagree and call them out on their views and say if they find them abhorrent. Or does free speech only work one way with Christians?.
  • *weeschmoo**weeschmoo* Posts: 9,713
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    There are many things that are unacceptable in Modern Britain, people can choose to be a Catholic though.
  • NosegayNosegay Posts: 520
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    blueblade wrote: »
    Funnily enough, the Vatican was allegedly instrumental in arranging the escape of ex SS personnel including war criminals, to South America just after the last war.

    In answer to the thread question, I have absolutely no time for them, and they certainly have no place in modern Britain. Roman Catholicism always seems a very nasty and controlling branch of Christianity to me. Full of abusers.

    And devout Catholics who do good in their lives. You wouldn't tag all gays as abusers just because one or two abuse children.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/apr/13/abuse-teenage-boys-detention-centre-crime
  • jsmith99jsmith99 Posts: 20,382
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    Lizzy11268 wrote: »
    Yes of course it is....but everyone must have the same right of free speech and all must be held to one standard. I am not allowed to discriminate against gay people for any reason at all - that is the law. .....

    Speaking and discriminating are two entirely different things.
    Lizzy11268 wrote: »
    .............If i stood up and said homosexuality was an abomination and discriminated against gay people in any way shape or form I would be in trouble with the law...............

    If I stood up and said cabbage doesn't taste nice and robbed a bank I would be in trouble with the law.
    Lizzy11268 wrote: »
    True. So they do not allow gay people to take communion, is that a discriminating act?.............

    Not being a Catholic, I've no idea whether they do or don't allow gay people to take communion. If they don't, then it's certainly a very old fashioned attitude, probably based on 'breaking the rules'. So it would be discriminatory only if no other 'rule breakers' were prohibited.

    However, I imagine they also don't allow Protestants, Jews or Muslims to take it, either.
    REDBUS wrote: »
    We condone and legislate against racism and sectarianism why should homophobia be acceptable in this day and age ,............................

    It's all a matter of defintion:

    Racism - racist actions are against the law, not thoughts or opinions. And I class 'incitement' as an action.

    Sectarianism - covers a very broad field of activities. In what way is it legislated against?

    Homophobia - everyone seems to have their own, personal, definition; especially on DS. Even criticising a person who happens to be gay, though that fact has nothing to do with the criticism, has been called homophobic.

    And aren't homophobic actions, or discrimination, already against the law?
    REDBUS wrote: »
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    Whatever way any faith group condones same sex marriage ,it cannot disguise their blatant homophobia ...........

    What's homophobic about condoning same-sex marriage?

    As for the original question, I think referring to the RC Church as a whole is incorrect. It's a small number of people in the church; in the UK, anyway. If all they're doing is preaching about it, then I don't see any alternative to accepting - and ignoring - it.
  • *weeschmoo**weeschmoo* Posts: 9,713
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    Nosegay wrote: »
    And devout Catholics who do good in their lives. you wouldn't tag all gays as abusers just because one or two abuse children.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/apr/13/abuse-teenage-boys-detention-centre-crime

    You can't be saying that on here, it's too obvious/sarcastic/sensible:D
  • SULLASULLA Posts: 149,789
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    How are they in any more danger than the rest of us?.

    If they follow the laws of the land then they wont face arrest. They are free to hold their homophobic views, and to express them, as long as those views do not cross the line into incitement for example. How is that different to non Christians?. or should Christians have special dispensation to break the laws the rest of us have to adhere to?.

    There's a valid argument the laws have perhaps gone slightly too far, but that's a different issue.
    Incitement to do what?
    Schnable wrote: »
    And accountable and factual and based on reality.

    Oh well, that counts religion out then.

    If we start allowing people's imaginations of Sky Fairies where will it end and we will have to change the law for the next imagined comfort blanket someone dreams up.

    That's why law is based on fact and not imaginations.
    All law is based in fact
    and what about if those christians then deny pagans same-sex marriage?

    What about them?
    They are allowed to say so, but people are free to disagree and call them out on their views and say if they find them abhorrent. Or does free speech only work one way with Christians?.
    No. It works both ways.
  • teresagreenteresagreen Posts: 16,444
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    blueblade wrote: »
    Funnily enough, the Vatican was allegedly instrumental in arranging the escape of ex SS personnel including war criminals, to South America just after the last war.

    In answer to the thread question, I have absolutely no time for them, and they certainly have no place in modern Britain. Roman Catholicism always seems a very nasty and controlling branch of Christianity to me. Full of abusers.

    Nice to see bigotry is still alive and kicking
  • cloudycloudy Posts: 3,446
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    Nice to see bigotry is still alive and kicking

    Well it was on politics Scotland this lunch time when the RC church was again on doing everything they can to stop the new gay marriage law. Apparently gay marriage affects schools and services, what gay marriage has to do with schools or services i have no idea. Luckily there was a minister from North America on to talk some sense.

    A 1000 signature petition was handed to Nicola Sturgen yesterday the signatures were collected from RC churches in her constituency.

    C'mon SNP shut these fools up, publish the bill and make it law.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 36,630
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    SULLA wrote: »
    Incitement to do what?

    All law is based in fact



    What about them?

    No. It works both ways.

    You know full well what incitement means. If a Christian says "I hate all gay people and they should not be allowed to marry" they will not face arrest. But if that same Christian was to say "I hate all gay people and they should be killed for being gay" that potentially crosses the line and could be seen as incitement, but I suspect you already know that. And no, I am not saying anyone has said that, it was an example before you come back and ask where anyone has said that.

    And yes, it works both ways as it should, but Carey and others seem to feel that Christians should be a special case and not face prosecution when they break the law if their views lead them to doing so. They are not a special case, they quite rightly have to abide by the same laws the rest of us do. If they feel the laws have gone too far then they should campaign to have those laws changed.
  • Chester666666Chester666666 Posts: 9,020
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    SULLA wrote: »


    What about them?

    .

    I thought you would condemn them or is it one rule for christian homophobes and another for the tolerant accepting folk?
  • SULLASULLA Posts: 149,789
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    I thought you would condemn them or is it one rule for christian homophobes and another for the tolerant accepting folk?

    Same sex marriage would be for everyone, regardless of their beliefs or non beleifs wouldn't it?

    When have I condemned same sex mariage?

    I support the right of Lord Carey to have an opinion, not his actual opinions.
  • jesayajesaya Posts: 35,597
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    cloudy wrote: »
    Well it was on politics Scotland this lunch time when the RC church was again on doing everything they can to stop the new gay marriage law. Apparently gay marriage affects schools and services, what gay marriage has to do with schools or services i have no idea. Luckily there was a minister from North America on to talk some sense.

    A 1000 signature petition was handed to Nicola Sturgen yesterday the signatures were collected from RC churches in her constituency.

    C'mon SNP shut these fools up, publish the bill and make it law.

    Apparently it would mean they would have to tell children in faith schools that gay people can get married. This will of course immediately cause society to disintegrate.
  • RecordPlayerRecordPlayer Posts: 22,648
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    jsmith99 wrote: »



    Not being a Catholic, I've no idea whether they do or don't allow gay people to take communion.
    If they don't, then it's certainly a very old fashioned attitude, probably based on 'breaking the rules'. So it would be discriminatory only if no other 'rule breakers' were prohibited.
    opinions. And I class 'incitement' as an action.

    They do.

    Archbishop Vincent Nichols has reaffirmed the Diocese of Westminster’s pastoral provision for gay Catholics following accusations that it provides a platform for dissent from Church teaching.
    In response the Soho Masses Pastoral Council, the group that organises the provision, said that “increasing numbers” of gay Catholics had returned to the Church through the Masses.

    The group said: “The Masses offer us a warm, joyful and inclusive occasion to share in communion with each other, with our families and friends, and with the whole Church, secure in the knowledge that we, too, have our place at the Lord’s table.

    “Increasing numbers of LGBT Catholics who had been estranged from the Church have been restored to communion through the Diocese’s courageous witness to the dignity of all people.

    “We also express our gratitude to the many clergy and lay people of the Diocese, and others, who support and sustain this ministry.”
  • jamie1992jamie1992 Posts: 354
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    Lots of Christians have been popping up in the media lately, spreading their mental disease and associated bigotry.
    If this continues, homophobia will become mainstream once again (as it was when I was growing up in the 1990s).

    I think the state ought to intervene and nip this in the bud.
    There is simply no scientific evidence to back up any of these Christian anti-gay claims (nor any of their other claims for that matter!).

    Christians are quite happy to embrace the achievements of science when it comes to spreading their myths - by way of radio, TV and the internet - or (at least where the more sane ones are concerned) treating their physical illnesses by way of modern medicine.
    Why not embrace the achievements of science when it comes to the issue of homosexuality as well?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 26,853
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    When gay marriage becomes completely legal, which will happen and I wouldnt be surprised if its soon, then the RC Church will more than likely be allowed an exception as will other religions who do not believe in gay marriage - I can't forsee a law anytime soon that will force the RC church or indeed any church to marry gay people against their will.

    That being the most likely outcome it might be time for them to just shut the hell up about it.

    Of course in my own opinion they SHOULD be forced to follow the law completely and utterly and no exceptions should be made on the basis of religious beliefs - but unfortunately a lot of religious folks are still stuck in the dark ages and a law will need to take into account the needs of as many as possible. So an exception seems the obvious solution.

    I really hope that one day gay people will be able to marry anywhere they choose.
  • SULLASULLA Posts: 149,789
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    jamie1992 wrote: »
    Lots of Christians have been popping up in the media lately, spreading their mental disease and associated bigotry.

    GIve me strength:rolleyes::rolleyes:
  • towerstowers Posts: 12,183
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    You know full well what incitement means. If a Christian says "I hate all gay people and they should not be allowed to marry" they will not face arrest. But if that same Christian was to say "I hate all gay people and they should be killed for being gay" that potentially crosses the line and could be seen as incitement, but I suspect you already know that. And no, I am not saying anyone has said that, it was an example before you come back and ask where anyone has said that.

    And yes, it works both ways as it should, but Carey and others seem to feel that Christians should be a special case and not face prosecution when they break the law if their views lead them to doing so. They are not a special case, they quite rightly have to abide by the same laws the rest of us do. If they feel the laws have gone too far then they should campaign to have those laws changed.

    I agree.

    It's unbelieveable to think that you could arrest someone for extreme homophobia if they're atheist but not if they're religious. At the end of the day, the rights of gay people must come before the rights of people who follow religion, simply because you're born with your sexuality (like you're born male or female, black or white ) but following religion is a personal choice.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 36,630
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    SULLA wrote: »
    Same sex marriage would be for everyone, regardless of their beliefs or non beleifs wouldn't it?

    When have I condemned same sex mariage?

    I support the right of Lord Carey to have an opinion, not his actual opinions.

    As do I, it's his opinions that I disagree with.
  • towerstowers Posts: 12,183
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    The religious are happy to trust in science when it suits them and not trust in science when it doesn't suit you. :rolleyes: If science and nature suggests that people are indeed born gay, there's not much homophobics can argue with.
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