I don't think any amount of reading will help me understand how her hubby puts up with her though.
QUOTE]
She got through several husbands and is being portrayed as one of the most infuriating women ever! She's obsessed, impossible to control and stupid (in the sense she's chatting treason to anyone and everyone - she was actually very cunning and ruthless) and you can almost see her poor husband wanting to bang his head against the wall when she goes off on one.
I've been struggling to understand why his mum feels he has a right to be king one day. I've had a search so I kind of understand that now...vaguely... it's all a bit messy really. Maybe I missed it but I think that could have been made clearer other than it's God's will. She certainly says that a lot!
I don't think any amount of reading will help me understand how her hubby puts up with her though.
But I do think it's improved a lot...I wasn't going to bother after the first episode but I'm glad I stuck with it now.
I'm not sure if Margaret Beaufort really had this conviction that her son would be king at this stage. If so, it would seem deluded; even with a Lancastrian restoration, one would naturally have expected Henry VI's son Edward to father children, and the Beauforts were in any case excluded from the succession by law. Even if the Beauforts were included, the Duke of Somerset would have had a better claim than Henry.
Soon after, of course, it would be a much transformed situation.
But who is the guy who Anne Neville has just married?
King Henry VI's and Queen Margaret of Anjou's son, Edward Of Westminster the Prince Of Wales.
The only prince of Wales to ever die in battle.
Re Margaret Beaufort, it would have been strange if at this point she even dreamed of her son becoming King considering King Henry VI's son is alive. Even then there are many other Beaufort and York claimants.
Henry tudor had a tiny claim compared to others.
Margaret of Anjou also mentioned a dispensation as Anne Neville is related to Edward of Westminster are related many times through both her parents.
I missed the last half. Which one is Edward of Westminster again?
Son of Margaret of Anjou and Henry VI, although various rumours at the time, given the king's illness and bouts of madness, had either Edmund Beaufort, 1st Duke of Somerset, or James Butler, Earl of Wiltshire, as the actual father :eek:
However, like with Edward IV, Henry VI claimed paternity and accepted him as his son and so he was heir and made Prince of Wales. It's his rights that Margaret of Anjou is fighting so hard for.
I saw programme a few years ago - the details escape me - about where George III's madness came from, and they seemed to think that it came from the French Royal Family. It's interesting to see that Henry VI was mad, but so was his uncle, his mother's brother Charles VI of France. I wonder if it was the same illness which passed down to George?
I am lost now .I have no idea who is who and how they can suddenly declare people King or Queen . I dont understand Warwicks motives to crown someone King and fight for him bla bla bla .I dont know who the child is with the mad mother or why is suddenly to be KIng .I dont know who married who and why or whats the gain .I dont understand why about three people seem to be King or KIng in waiting .
BUT am loving it as drama and the period and the theatricals and I watch for that now as I know I wont get the whole picture and have given up on understanding it.
Completely aside from this and nothing to do with the White Queen it did remind me of a story .
We are Irish and as such not familiar with that side of UK history . My nephew , then aged about 7 came in one day to me and was very excited about a book he had read about called Henry Vill . I was a bit puzzled who Henry Vill might be and looked at his book .A lovely kids book called Henry V111
I believe one of the contemporary chroniclers claims that Clarence and Lord Hastings killed him in Edward IV's presence. Unverifiable now, but another chronicler suggests that unnamed important people killed him, and their reluctance to name names does give it a feel of truth.
I enjoyed this week's episode. Apparently the idea of Warwick and the Lancastrians joining forces was was very much Louis of France's idea, and both Warwick and Margaret were at first horrified by it.
I must admit I hope we'll see some actual battles. I know they'd be expensive to do, but it seems contrary to do a drama on the Wars of the Roses and not have any. One of my favourite bits in Sharon Penman's The Sunne in Splendour is the Battle of Tewkesbury; the incident with the Duke of Somerset and Lord Wenlock is very dramatic!
I am lost now .I have no idea who is who and how they can suddenly declare people King or Queen . I dont understand Warwicks motives to crown someone King and fight for him bla bla bla .I dont know who the child is with the mad mother or why is suddenly to be KIng .I dont know who married who and why or whats the gain .I dont understand why about three people seem to be King or KIng in waiting .
BUT am loving it as drama and the period and the threatricals and I watch for that now as I know I wont get the whole picture and have given up on understanding it
It is very complicated, but I'm sure if you ask the questions one at a time , someone on here with more knowledge than me will explain it all to you
I am lost now .I have no idea who is who and how they can suddenly declare people King or Queen . I dont understand Warwicks motives to crown someone King and fight for him bla bla bla .I dont know who the child is with the mad mother or why is suddenly to be KIng .I dont know who married who and why or whats the gain .I dont understand why about three people seem to be King or KIng in waiting .
BUT am loving it as drama and the period and the theatricals and I watch for that now as I know I wont get the whole picture and have given up on understanding it.
Completely aside from this and nothing to do with the White Queen it did remind me of a story .
We are Irish and as such not familiar with that side of UK history . My nephew , then aged about 7 came in one day to me and was very excited about a book he had read about called Henry Vill . I was a bit puzzled who Henry Vill might be and looked at his book .A lovely kids book called Henry V111
Basically Edward III had too many kids who lived to reproduce offspring
Once the eldest line (Richard II) failed by not having a male heir, the rest of the family all fell out over who should be king next.
First on the list were the Lancastrians (Henry VI) who were directly in line from the guy who overthrew Richard II (Henry IV). But Henry VI was quite mad, not really interested in being King and only had one son (who was rumoured even back then to not be his own).
Next on the list were the Yorkists (Edward IV) as they descended from the second of Edward III's kids, albeit via a female, as well as from the fourth son. They'd been running the country during Henry VI's bouts of madness and had been next in line when Richard II was still king.
Third on the list (and a long long way back) is Henry Tudor who descended from a bastard line from Edward III's third child and whose line had been specifically barred from inheriting the Throne when they'd been made legitimate.
All of the various branches are connected through dozens of other families, the Nevilles (Warwick) being just one of them, and were nearly all first or second cousins.
Basically Edward III had too many kids who lived to reproduce offspring
Once the eldest line (Richard II) failed by not having a male heir, the rest of the family all fell out over who should be king next.
First on the list were the Lancastrians (Henry VI) who were directly in line from the guy who overthrew Richard II (Henry IV). But Henry VI was quite mad, not really interested in being King and only had one son (who was rumoured even back then to not be his own).
Next on the list were the Yorkists (Edward IV) as they descended from the second of Edward III's kids, albeit via a female, as well as from the fourth son. They'd been running the country during Henry VI's bouts of madness and had been next in line when Richard II was still king.
Third on the list (and a long long way back) is Henry Tudor who descended from a bastard line from Edward III's third child and whose line had been specifically barred from inheriting the Throne when they'd been made legitimate.
All of the various branches are connected through dozens of other families, the Nevilles (Warwick) being just one of them, and were nearly all first or second cousins.
Hope this helps.
Thank you so much , Yes it does help especially the bit in bold which now makes more sense to me that they all should presume to be King . I tried Wiki but got bogged down in detail so that is now making a lot more sense .
I saw programme a few years ago - the details escape me - about where George III's madness came from, and they seemed to think that it came from the French Royal Family. It's interesting to see that Henry VI was mad, but so was his uncle, his mother's brother Charles VI of France. I wonder if it was the same illness which passed down to George?
Maybe but George III is quite away down the line he is descended from Elizabeth Stuart, Charles I sister who is descended from Henry VII via his daughter Margaret. Henry VII Grandmother was Catherine of Valois and her father was mad and her son Henry VI was too. I’m beginning think Henry VIII might have been affected in some way he did have personality change after his jousting accident.
I am lost now .I have no idea who is who and how they can suddenly declare people King or Queen . I dont understand Warwicks motives to crown someone King and fight for him bla bla bla .I dont know who the child is with the mad mother or why is suddenly to be KIng .I dont know who married who and why or whats the gain .I dont understand why about three people seem to be King or KIng in waiting .
BUT am loving it as drama and the period and the theatricals and I watch for that now as I know I wont get the whole picture and have given up on understanding it.
Completely aside from this and nothing to do with the White Queen it did remind me of a story .
We are Irish and as such not familiar with that side of UK history . My nephew , then aged about 7 came in one day to me and was very excited about a book he had read about called Henry Vill . I was a bit puzzled who Henry Vill might be and looked at his book .A lovely kids book called Henry V111
Completely aside from this and nothing to do with the White Queen it did remind me of a story .
We are Irish and as such not familiar with that side of UK history . My nephew , then aged about 7 came in one day to me and was very excited about a book he had read about called Henry Vill . I was a bit puzzled who Henry Vill might be and looked at his book .A lovely kids book called Henry V111
That's sweet
It reminded me of when I was about the same age. I'd always been interested in history, but being very young had no concept of how long history actually is, so I asked my mum one day "Was Henry VIII on the throne when you were a girl?" I think she was a bit put out :D:D
Thank you so much , Yes it does help especially the bit in bold which now makes more sense to me that they all should presume to be King . I tried Wiki but got bogged down in detail so that is now making a lot more sense .
I knew someone would explain it far better than me
Maybe but George III is quite away down the line he is descended from Elizabeth Stuart, Charles I sister who is descended from Henry VII via his daughter Margaret. Henry VII Grandmother was Catherine of Valois and her father was mad and her son Henry VI was too. I’m beginning think Henry VIII might have been affected in some way he did have personality change after his jousting accident.
I know he was a long way further down the line, but as he was a descendant it's obviously a genetic thing which has been passed down - and as Catherine of Valois' father, brother and son had it then it's more than likely it was the same illness. I wish I could remember the programme and the channel it was on.
I always thought that Henry VIII's personality change came from an STD. He possibly had type 2 diabetes at the end of his life too.
I know he was a long way further down the line, but as he was a descendant it's obviously a genetic thing which has been passed down - and as Catherine of Valois' father, brother and son had it then it's more than likely it was the same illness. I wish I could remember the programme and the channel it was on.
I always thought that Henry VIII's personality change came from an STD. He possibly had type 2 diabetes at the end of his life too.
Maybe I don't know, It probably likey as it was in the family. Did Catherine of Valois' brother suffer from mental issues as well?
BIB : I don't know I was just surmising, but surely it wouldn't of helped. STD, diabetes possible genetic metal issues, Henry VIII had a lot going for him.;)
I always thought that Henry VIII's personality change came from an STD. He possibly had type 2 diabetes at the end of his life too.
I saw one programme which said it could have been linked to a bad jousting fall , where he was knocked unconscious for some time & suffered ? brain damage.
Or from a jousting wound in his leg, which suppurated for years & caused him a lot of pain.
I saw one programme which said it could have been linked to a bad jousting fall , where he was knocked unconscious for some time & suffered ? brain damage.
Or from a jousting wound in his leg, which suppurated for years & caused him a lot of pain.
Yes this is mostly likely. It could off unlocked a genetic mental disease that could of been lying dormant until the jousting fall and turned him a bit psycho. Can that happen?
sorry I digress back to the White Queen.Loved the episode last especially the bit where Elizabeth was trying to get out of the Tower before Warwick got to her, I was shouting “hurry up and get out” Don’t know why because I knew she fled into sanctuary.
Yes this is mostly likely. It could off unlocked a genetic mental disease that could of been lying dormant until the jousting fall and turned him a bit psycho. Can that happen ?
I suppose just a blow to the head could change his personality completely !
Comments
I'm not sure if Margaret Beaufort really had this conviction that her son would be king at this stage. If so, it would seem deluded; even with a Lancastrian restoration, one would naturally have expected Henry VI's son Edward to father children, and the Beauforts were in any case excluded from the succession by law. Even if the Beauforts were included, the Duke of Somerset would have had a better claim than Henry.
Soon after, of course, it would be a much transformed situation.
King Henry VI's and Queen Margaret of Anjou's son, Edward Of Westminster the Prince Of Wales.
The only prince of Wales to ever die in battle.
Re Margaret Beaufort, it would have been strange if at this point she even dreamed of her son becoming King considering King Henry VI's son is alive. Even then there are many other Beaufort and York claimants.
Henry tudor had a tiny claim compared to others.
Margaret of Anjou also mentioned a dispensation as Anne Neville is related to Edward of Westminster are related many times through both her parents.
I don't post during programmes.
Son of Margaret of Anjou and Henry VI, although various rumours at the time, given the king's illness and bouts of madness, had either Edmund Beaufort, 1st Duke of Somerset, or James Butler, Earl of Wiltshire, as the actual father :eek:
However, like with Edward IV, Henry VI claimed paternity and accepted him as his son and so he was heir and made Prince of Wales. It's his rights that Margaret of Anjou is fighting so hard for.
Depends which Margaret you mean
Edward of Westminster
BUT am loving it as drama and the period and the theatricals and I watch for that now as I know I wont get the whole picture and have given up on understanding it.
Completely aside from this and nothing to do with the White Queen it did remind me of a story .
We are Irish and as such not familiar with that side of UK history . My nephew , then aged about 7 came in one day to me and was very excited about a book he had read about called Henry Vill . I was a bit puzzled who Henry Vill might be and looked at his book .A lovely kids book called Henry V111
BIB I have to stay I rather liked that bit.
It is very complicated, but I'm sure if you ask the questions one at a time , someone on here with more knowledge than me will explain it all to you
Basically Edward III had too many kids who lived to reproduce offspring
Once the eldest line (Richard II) failed by not having a male heir, the rest of the family all fell out over who should be king next.
First on the list were the Lancastrians (Henry VI) who were directly in line from the guy who overthrew Richard II (Henry IV). But Henry VI was quite mad, not really interested in being King and only had one son (who was rumoured even back then to not be his own).
Next on the list were the Yorkists (Edward IV) as they descended from the second of Edward III's kids, albeit via a female, as well as from the fourth son. They'd been running the country during Henry VI's bouts of madness and had been next in line when Richard II was still king.
Third on the list (and a long long way back) is Henry Tudor who descended from a bastard line from Edward III's third child and whose line had been specifically barred from inheriting the Throne when they'd been made legitimate.
All of the various branches are connected through dozens of other families, the Nevilles (Warwick) being just one of them, and were nearly all first or second cousins.
Hope this helps.
Thank you so much , Yes it does help especially the bit in bold which now makes more sense to me that they all should presume to be King . I tried Wiki but got bogged down in detail so that is now making a lot more sense .
Maybe but George III is quite away down the line he is descended from Elizabeth Stuart, Charles I sister who is descended from Henry VII via his daughter Margaret. Henry VII Grandmother was Catherine of Valois and her father was mad and her son Henry VI was too. I’m beginning think Henry VIII might have been affected in some way he did have personality change after his jousting accident.
This may help.
http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/wars-of-the-roses.htm
That's sweet
It reminded me of when I was about the same age. I'd always been interested in history, but being very young had no concept of how long history actually is, so I asked my mum one day "Was Henry VIII on the throne when you were a girl?" I think she was a bit put out
I knew someone would explain it far better than me
I know he was a long way further down the line, but as he was a descendant it's obviously a genetic thing which has been passed down - and as Catherine of Valois' father, brother and son had it then it's more than likely it was the same illness. I wish I could remember the programme and the channel it was on.
I always thought that Henry VIII's personality change came from an STD. He possibly had type 2 diabetes at the end of his life too.
Thank you .! Will have mooch around there too .
Maybe I don't know, It probably likey as it was in the family. Did Catherine of Valois' brother suffer from mental issues as well?
BIB : I don't know I was just surmising, but surely it wouldn't of helped. STD, diabetes possible genetic metal issues, Henry VIII had a lot going for him.;)
I saw one programme which said it could have been linked to a bad jousting fall , where he was knocked unconscious for some time & suffered ? brain damage.
Or from a jousting wound in his leg, which suppurated for years & caused him a lot of pain.
Comes across as unlikeable and greedy- driven by manic ambition
Yes this is mostly likely. It could off unlocked a genetic mental disease that could of been lying dormant until the jousting fall and turned him a bit psycho. Can that happen?
sorry I digress back to the White Queen.Loved the episode last especially the bit where Elizabeth was trying to get out of the Tower before Warwick got to her, I was shouting “hurry up and get out” Don’t know why because I knew she fled into sanctuary.
I suppose just a blow to the head could change his personality completely !
I was only really surmising.