On the topic of different age of consent in other countries, if two 14 year old kids in Spain were having sex, legally, and they came to England on a trip and continued to have sex, does it then become illegal? The act that they’re doing hasn’t changed, only the laws of the country.
I suppose I can answer my own question as a similar thing happens with alcohol in the US. You can legally drink in the UK at 18 but it’s illegal (in some states) in the US. Their country, their laws I suppose.
I think the age of consent set a 16 is probably about right. Some teenagers are more mature than others but I would hope that my daughter will wait until she is a bit older.
Its not right for older men to grope young women. It happened all the time when I was young and no one thought very much of it. Things have changed massively in the last 20 years now men know that it isn't acceptable to behave like women are your playthings anymore.
Having said this I'm not sure about this operation Yewtree. Obviously Saville was a vile predator but the continual picking up of old entertainers is getting a bit wearisome now. They lived at a time when patting a girl on the bum was seen as a compliment and I just don't see what is really being achieved by this continuing.
On the topic of different age of consent in other countries, if two 14 year old kids in Spain were having sex, legally, and they came to England on a trip and continued to have sex, does it then become illegal? The act that they’re doing hasn’t changed, only the laws of the country.
Not quite the same thing, but I believe it would be illegal under British law (at least the letter of the law) for a British person to have sex with someone under 16 regardless of the local law.
I think the age of consent set a 16 is probably about right. Some teenagers are more mature than others but I would hope that my daughter will wait until she is a bit older.
Its not right for older men to grope young women. It happened all the time when I was young and no one thought very much of it. Things have changed massively in the last 20 years now men know that it isn't acceptable to behave like women are your playthings anymore.
Having said this I'm not sure about this operation Yewtree. Obviously Saville was a vile predator but the continual picking up of old entertainers is getting a bit wearisome now. They lived at a time when patting a girl on the bum was seen as a compliment and I just don't see what is really being achieved by this continuing.
I think the age of consent set a 16 is probably about right. Some teenagers are more mature than others but I would hope that my daughter will wait until she is a bit older.
Its not right for older men to grope young women. It happened all the time when I was young and no one thought very much of it. Things have changed massively in the last 20 years now men know that it isn't acceptable to behave like women are your playthings anymore.
Having said this I'm not sure about this operation Yewtree. Obviously Saville was a vile predator but the continual picking up of old entertainers is getting a bit wearisome now. They lived at a time when patting a girl on the bum was seen as a compliment and I just don't see what is really being achieved by this continuing.
BiB, no-one is saying it is. Sexual assault is sexual assault whatever the age of consent is.
I'm guessing this barrister is trying to create controversy because she's wanting publicity. If what she wants actually happened, this would be a paedophile's dream come true! Every once in a while someone comes along that spouts something completely stupid! Tell you what, why don't we just lower the age of consent to 8 years old, that way, all old men can be safe from young girls. Yep! That's a good idea.
When I started working in the early 80s it was still pretty rife then. Like the wolf whistling when you walked down the street. If a woman complained at that time they were told that they should accept unwanted attention as a compliment. It happened to me a lot.
The problem with lowering the age of consent is that effectively you are saying that someone is old enough to deal with the consequences. If for example the age of consent in the uk was 13 then it would be acceptable for 13 year old girls to have time off school to raise babies. You couldnt make a law saying you can have sex at 13 but you are not allowed children until you are 16.
Yet Britain had an age of consent of 12 for 600 years or so. At a time when the typical 12 year old would have "presented" as say a 9 year old today.
I'm not sure that's right. 600 years ago kids probably started work and joined the adult community as soon as they were physically capable. It wasn't that long ago that kids worked down mines, up chimneys and in mills. That long ago there was no social security and almost no education for most people. As soon as a kid had been weaned and potty trained the parents set them to work. They couldn't afford to spend the next decade looking after the little buggers.
When I was at school in the 80s quite a few kids left at 16 and went into full-time employment and it was considered fairly normal. How many do that now? I think childhood is being extended as time goes on, not shrunk.
The problem with lowering the age of consent is that effectively you are saying that someone is old enough to deal with the consequences. If for example the age of consent in the uk was 13 then it would be acceptable for 13 year old girls to have time off school to raise babies. You couldnt make a law saying you can have sex at 13 but you are not allowed children until you are 16.
That's probably the main reason why it wont happen, actually. As much as the media wail about it encouraging paedophiles (I'm not sure I buy that personally, since people who abuse are going to do it regardless of consent or the age of consent), I'm guessing it's more practical considerations like this that stop it happening.
It's just a proposal to lower the amount of convictions of sex with a minor. That's like saying petty theft like stealing wallets should be no longer illegal, so that the police don't have as much admin to do. Except, obviously, a whole lot worse.
I'm not sure that's right. 600 years ago kids probably started work and joined the adult community as soon as they were physically capable. It wasn't that long ago that kids worked down mines, up chimneys and in mills. That long ago there was no social security and almost no education for most people. As soon as a kid had been weaned and potty trained the parents set them to work. They couldn't afford to spend the next decade looking after the little buggers.
When I was at school in the 80s quite a few kids left at 16 and went into full-time employment and it was considered fairly normal. How many do that now?
When I say 12 year olds then "presented as a 9 /10 year old" today I mean physically / anatomically / hormonally. Apparently puberty in girls today sets in 5 years earlier than in the 1880s when the current underpinning legislation regarding 16 came into force. Like it or not that has quite profound social-sexual consequences for society as a whole.
When I started working in the early 80s it was still pretty rife then. Like the wolf whistling when you walked down the street. If a woman complained at that time they were told that they should accept unwanted attention as a compliment. It happened to me a lot.
it wasn`t considered a compliment in my own youth in the 60`s and 70`s and even less so in the 80`s i lived in.
Have a look at specifically the ages of consent that are 14 and 15 years old in Europe...there are many...hence for the large majority of these cases of the celebs these wouldn;t even be coming to court quite possibly.
Germany - 14
Denmark - 15
Spain - 13
Sweden - 15
I am making an assumption that some are being charged with statutory rape i.e. sex with someone under the age of consent EVEN if they agreed to it.
Hence, we have this 'horror' of a 15year old having sex with someone older in the UK but in Germany or Denmark...not even an issue.
NOTE TO MODS: This is not a post saying that having sex with someone under 16 in the UK is 'OK' it is not and I am not condoning or encouraging this as it is ILLEGAL in the UK. I am just making a point. (Statement just to make clear the intentions of the post.)
it wasn`t considered a compliment in my own youth in the 60`s and 70`s and even less so in the 80`s i lived in.
Well obviously being a woman I didn't consider it a compliment either but plenty of sexist pigs I met over the years in my youth seemed to think that leering at a woman, trying to grope her etc was being complimentary as we were supposed to be so delighted that they found us attractive.
No I don't agree with lowering, considering so many 16 year olds lack common sense to take even basic precautions. The minute the teenage pregnancy rates drop then I feel that's the time to be justified in reviewing it and potentally aligning ourselves with other European countries.
At the moment some of our youth have time and time again proved they can't be trusted to look after themselves, I don't see the situation improving throwing in 13 and 14 yr olds into the mix. It would also be used a weapon against girls that age for being 'frigid' if they didn't put out quick enough to some boys.
I don't even need to bother mentioning the creepy older man scenario. The idea that a 43 year old could be legally sleepign with a 13 old makes me feel utterly grossed out.
Well obviously being a woman I didn't consider it a compliment either but plenty of sexist pigs I met over the years in my youth seemed to think that leering at a woman, trying to grope her etc was being complimentary as we were supposed to be so delighted that they found us attractive.
whereas lecherous men were way more openly lecherous :shudder: the majority of people did view indecent assault as wrong and so did the law.
a dirty old man is a dirty old man whatever the century.
Comments
I suppose I can answer my own question as a similar thing happens with alcohol in the US. You can legally drink in the UK at 18 but it’s illegal (in some states) in the US. Their country, their laws I suppose.
I think you're making a strawman out of me tbh!
NOBODY STRIKE A MATCH!!!!!!!!!!
Its not right for older men to grope young women. It happened all the time when I was young and no one thought very much of it. Things have changed massively in the last 20 years now men know that it isn't acceptable to behave like women are your playthings anymore.
Having said this I'm not sure about this operation Yewtree. Obviously Saville was a vile predator but the continual picking up of old entertainers is getting a bit wearisome now. They lived at a time when patting a girl on the bum was seen as a compliment and I just don't see what is really being achieved by this continuing.
Not quite the same thing, but I believe it would be illegal under British law (at least the letter of the law) for a British person to have sex with someone under 16 regardless of the local law.
when was that then?
BiB, no-one is saying it is. Sexual assault is sexual assault whatever the age of consent is.
When I started working in the early 80s it was still pretty rife then. Like the wolf whistling when you walked down the street. If a woman complained at that time they were told that they should accept unwanted attention as a compliment. It happened to me a lot.
When I was at school in the 80s quite a few kids left at 16 and went into full-time employment and it was considered fairly normal. How many do that now? I think childhood is being extended as time goes on, not shrunk.
Old Bob Monkhouse joke about the basis of a happy marriage being incompatability, where the husband has the income and the wife has the "pat-ability".
Could the Carry On films be made today? Should the old ones ever be shown on TV again?
That's probably the main reason why it wont happen, actually. As much as the media wail about it encouraging paedophiles (I'm not sure I buy that personally, since people who abuse are going to do it regardless of consent or the age of consent), I'm guessing it's more practical considerations like this that stop it happening.
It's a horrific, ignorant joke.
When I say 12 year olds then "presented as a 9 /10 year old" today I mean physically / anatomically / hormonally. Apparently puberty in girls today sets in 5 years earlier than in the 1880s when the current underpinning legislation regarding 16 came into force. Like it or not that has quite profound social-sexual consequences for society as a whole.
it wasn`t considered a compliment in my own youth in the 60`s and 70`s and even less so in the 80`s i lived in.
Indeed, let's look at the various words we should be using:
Paedophilia is a psychological disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a sexual preference for prepubescent children
Hebephilia is a primary or exclusive sexual interest in pubescent individuals approximately 11–14 years old
Ephebophilia is the primary or exclusive adult sexual interest in mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19 i.e. post-pubescent.
Now, let us look at ages of consent around the world:
(Take no view on the website it is on - just the first one I picked)
http://www.avert.org/age-of-consent.htm
Have a look at specifically the ages of consent that are 14 and 15 years old in Europe...there are many...hence for the large majority of these cases of the celebs these wouldn;t even be coming to court quite possibly.
Germany - 14
Denmark - 15
Spain - 13
Sweden - 15
I am making an assumption that some are being charged with statutory rape i.e. sex with someone under the age of consent EVEN if they agreed to it.
Hence, we have this 'horror' of a 15year old having sex with someone older in the UK but in Germany or Denmark...not even an issue.
NOTE TO MODS: This is not a post saying that having sex with someone under 16 in the UK is 'OK' it is not and I am not condoning or encouraging this as it is ILLEGAL in the UK. I am just making a point. (Statement just to make clear the intentions of the post.)
Ther are many 40 year dolds I know who still aren;t emotionally mature enough to have sex.
Yes, 13 year olds are classed as children but many are post-puberty hence why in some countries it is legal for them to have sex.
There is a 13year old lass in a mates street who looks 19years old and who you would think was after a chat with her as well.
Well obviously being a woman I didn't consider it a compliment either but plenty of sexist pigs I met over the years in my youth seemed to think that leering at a woman, trying to grope her etc was being complimentary as we were supposed to be so delighted that they found us attractive.
Course it was so considered, as any number of films, novels etc of the time eloquently testify.
It's this horrible historical revisionism that is currently taking place that is so troubling.
At the moment some of our youth have time and time again proved they can't be trusted to look after themselves, I don't see the situation improving throwing in 13 and 14 yr olds into the mix. It would also be used a weapon against girls that age for being 'frigid' if they didn't put out quick enough to some boys.
I don't even need to bother mentioning the creepy older man scenario. The idea that a 43 year old could be legally sleepign with a 13 old makes me feel utterly grossed out.
whereas lecherous men were way more openly lecherous :shudder: the majority of people did view indecent assault as wrong and so did the law.
a dirty old man is a dirty old man whatever the century.
:urgh: