The government will not have told them to act improperly
If genuine claimants are refused, it would appear that some job centre workers are not doing their job properly.
And the high number who have their sanctioned over turned WEEKS later shows the staff are not doing thier job properly., but we will see what is found out next year when the select committee holds thier investigation, as they do tend to get to the bottom of things
The government will not have told them to act improperly
If genuine claimants are refused, it would appear that some job centre workers are not doing their job properly.
Fine as far as it goes.
However, it is clear that oversanctioning is endemic, and the DWP has failed to ensure their staff is aware of the rules and how to apply them.
That means the Department is not fit for purpose in that respect.
The next line in command above the Department are?
The more I see the more scared I get.
People just dont seem to care about their fellow man anymore.
Yes, the Tories have used the crisis to scourge people in difficulty. IDS has no moral compass whatsoever. (But I do think lots of people can see it now apart from those who share that particular defect).
;-) Noticed you before. I'm freelance though these days, and not just on that subject. It means I get to really dig deep and cause trouble where it's deserved
Keep on fighting, kid. They need us.
Most intriguing.
PM me if you'd like to know of a ludicrous housing benefit suspension case, where being out a lot seems to mean you're living elsewhere and a vulnerable client with learning difficulties was interviewed at home by 2 fraud officers without being given the opportunity to have someone with her....
Can you offer a specific example of what you consider to be an unfair or inappropriate application of a sanction?
Man made redundant after 30 years full time employment claims contribution based JSA.
Induction interview at job centre takes place at 4.00pm.
Job centre employee explains process and explains "we will expect you to apply for x amount of jobs like this one for example"
Hands applicant job spec and laughs and says"well not this one as the closing date is today at 5.00pm"
Applicant laughs as well.
Few weeks later sanction letter arrives as he refused to apply for said job.
Overturned when threatened with appeal and ombudsman.
and it's all a one way street, where YOU, the claimant has to do everything, and like good little civil servants they have to pass on the information ..... and they offer VERY LITTLE or even NO actual help, since the whole crappy directgov site is a centralised convenience for this government, so hellbent of being small, and soon as it's localised the better!
Here's what an agreement form dated in May looks like. There's a page before with details of the hours willing to work and a list of past job experience.
I've known people to be sanctioned. They appear to pick on the not very bright or the weak. I claimed jobseekers but to be fair they never attempted to sanction me. I'm bright and educated. I also made sure my paperwork was filled in to the max and I had applied for way more than the minimum number of jobs I was supposed to. Not claiming at the moment, but then only doing temp work, so who knows?
I do know people who do not want to work. They should be sanctioned. But I also know people who simply aren't bright, and they would probably struggle in most jobs to grasp the basics. They shouldn't be sanctioned but I think these are the easy targets.
Here's what an agreement form dated in May looks like. There's a page before with details of the hours willing to work and a list of past job experience.
Best to keep that quiet, some have 15-20 tasks per week, maybe it's an area thing.
Two per day? To be completely honest, if people can't be bothered to carry out two pieces of job search activity a day then they deserve to get sanctioned.
They tell jobseekers there's no minimum about of jobs they need to apply for, then they sanction them for not applying for what the jobcenter sees as enough.
It's a kangaroo court.
I agree 100% Jol.
I knew full well from my nephew (a jsa "advisor) what pressure they are under to sanction jsa clients, but my eyes have truly been opened since I lost my IB 2 months ago.
Last week when I signed on, I had applied for 6 jobs in the previous week. The woman who I signed on with made it plain that she should sanction me. When I asked why, she was clear that it was due to not having sanctioned enough people in the last few weeks and NOT the amount of positions applied for!.
Nowhere at all in the JSA agreement is there ANY mention of an amount of jobs you need to go for, instead it is couched in deliberately obscure language to allow the DWP to sanction AT WILL.
This is a direct quote from the "My Claimant Commitment" booklet that my nephew has said is used to justify many sanction orders.
I know I must show that I have done all that is reasonable to give myself the best prospects of securing employment
Highlighted is the catch all word "reasonable". What may you ask does the DWP consider "reasonable" in this instance?.
ANYTHING they want it to mean. The DWP can use this one word to justify any sanction, and use it to make sure their advisors can sanction at will. If the advisor wants to sanction, they can use any means top do so.
They even go to the lengths of sanctioning people for lack of follow up even when the person cant follow up because the job is through an agency and cannot give feedback because of privacy laws. Sorry to go on, but I am getting increasingly frustrated and angry at the way the pin heads in charge denigrate benefit claimants, myself included.
My girlfriend (Ex now) Once ruined our joint claim by refusing to attend out normal appointment because she was tired and couldn't be bothered to get up for 9.30am
I went along like normal and she said she would call in ill as i refused to lie to them, When i got home she said she had rang. Was a lie as she hadn't and we got sanctioned.....So not all sanctions are the JC's fault
My girlfriend (Ex now) Once ruined our joint claim by refusing to attend out normal appointment because she was tired and couldn't be bothered to get up for 9.30am
I went along like normal and she said she would call in ill as i refused to lie to them, When i got home she said she had rang. Was a lie as she hadn't and we got sanctioned.....So not all sanctions are the JC's fault
I've known people to be sanctioned. They appear to pick on the not very bright or the weak. I claimed jobseekers but to be fair they never attempted to sanction me. I'm bright and educated. I also made sure my paperwork was filled in to the max and I had applied for way more than the minimum number of jobs I was supposed to. Not claiming at the moment, but then only doing temp work, so who knows?
I do know people who do not want to work. They should be sanctioned. But I also know people who simply aren't bright, and they would probably struggle in most jobs to grasp the basics. They shouldn't be sanctioned but I think these are the easy targets.
Exactly my experience. I claimed for just over a year and they were fine with me but I'm sure it was because initially, when I had an issue about what one of them had said, I insisted upon speaking to a manager. They are bullies picking on those who they know are not going to know how to escalate a complaint about them.
I imagine that pretty much all of those sanctioned are the less educated as most Job Centre staff feel superior to them...
People who know and understand what this government are doing won't be surprised.
The people who don't care will continue not caring (and continue blaming the individual) As a matter of historical record I wonder if the UK has ever had such a spiteful and nasty group of people in power?
I mean, it must be some kind of record.
Christ! were you not around in the early 80s under Thatcher?
That was when the gates went up in Downing Street as she was hated by nearly everyone who wasn't a conservative.
Exactly my experience. I claimed for just over a year and they were fine with me but I'm sure it was because initially, when I had an issue about what one of them had said, I insisted upon speaking to a manager. They are bullies picking on those who they know are not going to know how to escalate a complaint about them.
I imagine that pretty much all of those sanctioned are the less educated as most Job Centre staff feel superior to them...
I have a mate who was always, 'oh, just do as they say and you'll be fine'. As if it was just trouble makers getting sanctioned. They've now however sanctioned him. He really regrets being so blase in the past about it now.
He went along with the jobcenter's every demand and they've used against him.
They also have some odd ideas of how to count applications.
A client applied for the required 5 jobs in one week. Three of them were are at Asda, two different job titles and 3 different branches. The job centre Nazi decided that applying for 3 jobs at Asda only counts as one application, and he got sanctioned.
He was also required to call in at 2 business premises each week on spec and ask if they had any vacancies. He lived in a village, 6 miles from the nearest town, £5.25 return bus fare to get there and the only workplaces he could get to were the pub and the village shop.
He got sanctioned again when he couldn't do his online job search because the whole village was without power for 24 hours because of storms.
My friend was sanctioned for not applying for a job because he cant drive and the job spec required a driving licence as their was travel between offices. Argument being there's public transport, thats bloody irrelevant the employer doesn't want that, he wants a driving licence. Now he fires in applications for jobs he's totally not suitable for but because he averages 20 a week the DWP dont care, it's mental.
Trying to find the link but another woman was sanctioned for not doing her online jobs search because the library was flooded, the only public access to the internet in the village as she has none at home.
I was a civil servant for 20 years and took a package to leave, prior to that I'd never had any dealings with the DWP other than striking on their behalf when their jobs were threatened. Now I wish I hadn't bothered, the sooner some of them find themselves on the other side of the desk and learn a little compassion, humility and common sense the better.
Comments
However, it is clear that oversanctioning is endemic, and the DWP has failed to ensure their staff is aware of the rules and how to apply them.
That means the Department is not fit for purpose in that respect.
The next line in command above the Department are?
(and no, are is correct - there are several)
Most intriguing.
PM me if you'd like to know of a ludicrous housing benefit suspension case, where being out a lot seems to mean you're living elsewhere and a vulnerable client with learning difficulties was interviewed at home by 2 fraud officers without being given the opportunity to have someone with her....
Man made redundant after 30 years full time employment claims contribution based JSA.
Induction interview at job centre takes place at 4.00pm.
Job centre employee explains process and explains "we will expect you to apply for x amount of jobs like this one for example"
Hands applicant job spec and laughs and says"well not this one as the closing date is today at 5.00pm"
Applicant laughs as well.
Few weeks later sanction letter arrives as he refused to apply for said job.
Overturned when threatened with appeal and ombudsman.
You have the wrong book si
In Dave I trust.
Authority is always right it seems.
they are AGENTS of government!
and it's all a one way street, where YOU, the claimant has to do everything, and like good little civil servants they have to pass on the information ..... and they offer VERY LITTLE or even NO actual help, since the whole crappy directgov site is a centralised convenience for this government, so hellbent of being small, and soon as it's localised the better!
http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/Alditha/media/d19df90b-4614-468d-abdb-ebcce5cde462_zps089702db.png.html
http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/Alditha/media/3_zpsed099036.jpg.html
I do know people who do not want to work. They should be sanctioned. But I also know people who simply aren't bright, and they would probably struggle in most jobs to grasp the basics. They shouldn't be sanctioned but I think these are the easy targets.
Two per day? To be completely honest, if people can't be bothered to carry out two pieces of job search activity a day then they deserve to get sanctioned.
Having seen the alternative, he's the best option.
I agree 100% Jol.
I knew full well from my nephew (a jsa "advisor) what pressure they are under to sanction jsa clients, but my eyes have truly been opened since I lost my IB 2 months ago.
Last week when I signed on, I had applied for 6 jobs in the previous week. The woman who I signed on with made it plain that she should sanction me. When I asked why, she was clear that it was due to not having sanctioned enough people in the last few weeks and NOT the amount of positions applied for!.
Nowhere at all in the JSA agreement is there ANY mention of an amount of jobs you need to go for, instead it is couched in deliberately obscure language to allow the DWP to sanction AT WILL.
This is a direct quote from the "My Claimant Commitment" booklet that my nephew has said is used to justify many sanction orders.
Highlighted is the catch all word "reasonable". What may you ask does the DWP consider "reasonable" in this instance?.
ANYTHING they want it to mean. The DWP can use this one word to justify any sanction, and use it to make sure their advisors can sanction at will. If the advisor wants to sanction, they can use any means top do so.
They even go to the lengths of sanctioning people for lack of follow up even when the person cant follow up because the job is through an agency and cannot give feedback because of privacy laws. Sorry to go on, but I am getting increasingly frustrated and angry at the way the pin heads in charge denigrate benefit claimants, myself included.
I went along like normal and she said she would call in ill as i refused to lie to them, When i got home she said she had rang. Was a lie as she hadn't and we got sanctioned.....So not all sanctions are the JC's fault
How chivalrous of you.
Exactly my experience. I claimed for just over a year and they were fine with me but I'm sure it was because initially, when I had an issue about what one of them had said, I insisted upon speaking to a manager. They are bullies picking on those who they know are not going to know how to escalate a complaint about them.
I imagine that pretty much all of those sanctioned are the less educated as most Job Centre staff feel superior to them...
Christ! were you not around in the early 80s under Thatcher?
That was when the gates went up in Downing Street as she was hated by nearly everyone who wasn't a conservative.
And picking on the sick and disabled, http://www.welfareweekly.com/people-mental-health-problems-hammered-sickness-benefit-sanctions// http://www.thefedonline.org.uk/disability-in-the-news/no-dwp-apology-for-work-programme-discrimination-and-punishment
He went along with the jobcenter's every demand and they've used against him.
My friend was sanctioned for not applying for a job because he cant drive and the job spec required a driving licence as their was travel between offices. Argument being there's public transport, thats bloody irrelevant the employer doesn't want that, he wants a driving licence. Now he fires in applications for jobs he's totally not suitable for but because he averages 20 a week the DWP dont care, it's mental.
Trying to find the link but another woman was sanctioned for not doing her online jobs search because the library was flooded, the only public access to the internet in the village as she has none at home.
I was a civil servant for 20 years and took a package to leave, prior to that I'd never had any dealings with the DWP other than striking on their behalf when their jobs were threatened. Now I wish I hadn't bothered, the sooner some of them find themselves on the other side of the desk and learn a little compassion, humility and common sense the better.