Here is an update from the BBC on the Mike smith fronted episodes :
Thanks for getting in touch about Top of the Pops.
While he was alive, Mike Smith decided not to sign the licence extension that would allow the BBC to repeat the Top of the Pops episodes that he presented. Since his passing, the BBC is continuing to respect his wishes.
Yes, that seems to have settled matters and the reason has been made very clear. Hopefully, there will be no online harassment/pestering of his widow Sarah Greene on twitter (I see upthread that she has already been sought out and 'questioned' on the topic, which is a little disturbing, attempts which she has rightfully ignored). I'm sure there will still be some people who won't take no for an answer too. I am sure she'll take the necessary action if things get out of hand.
Wholly agree with Gary Baldi in the BIB.
A shame for fellow pop-pickers as I feel showing the TOTP's would have been a fitting tribute to what Mike Smith did best (broadcasting), but in the circumstances completely understandable and also a nice gesture I feel from the BBC to respect the wishes of Mike Smith if he felt this way about his performances.
I'm also quite impressed the BBC (for once) decided to put the info out there relatively quickly before Sarah Greene became overwhelmed with queries.
1983, while not quite as good musically as 1982, will see the anti synthesiser backlash from acts like The Smiths, who were proto indie, and also from bands like Big Country, who were a bit heavier. Still reckon 1984 was better than 1982 and 1983, you had Prince and Madonna making a huge breakthrough over here, Bruce Springsteen went massive, bands like Van Halen gaining chart success and giving metal and hard rock a new lease of life, and Band Aid at the end of the year.
So Smith has used his veto and that's that: not just many, many shows wiped off the repeats but some great moments of popular music history stuck back in the archives. The question remains, why is it that one person, who's role was primarily functional, has more sway than all the hundreds of acts they have presented, and all of those who worked on the show, not to mention the audiences, both in the studio and at home (yes us the good old taxpayer).
The problem is that Mike Smith presented a very heavy percentage of Top of the Pops programmes in the mid-80s, particularly around 1986-87.
Since the presenter is only on screen for about 3 minutes in each show, maybe the BBC could show his programmes with just the music playing and the chart rundown without the voiceover.
So Smith has used his veto and that's that: not just many, many shows wiped off the repeats but some great moments of popular music history stuck back in the archives. The question remains, why is it that one person, who's role was primarily functional, has more sway than all the hundreds of acts they have presented, and all of those who worked on the show, not to mention the audiences, both in the studio and at home (yes us the good old taxpayer).
Agree partially with you Avid & I've long been an advocate of the compromise of showing the acts sans presenter (up to now in the case of 'they who shall not be named'), forming part of a compilation for that specific chart Week, accompanied with a visual rundown of the Weeks chart to accompany (using an instrumental of Yellow Pearl).
How this would look & sound overall without affecting the flow of the show too greatly I'm unsure (a fade here or an overlay there etc.)
Probably like a bag of spanners (!)
We've been going through TOTP with the chart equivalent of having the pages ripped out anyway & with the availability of shows, ahem, 'from other avenues', I must admit I can't remember an edition in recent times I didn't see, albeit the missing episodes are in mostly questionable SD quality, but I think it's the best compromise that can be hoped for if you want a complete overview.
Edit: Just spotted 'tother Andy's post above mine..
So Smith has used his veto and that's that: not just many, many shows wiped off the repeats but some great moments of popular music history stuck back in the archives. The question remains, why is it that one person, who's role was primarily functional, has more sway than all the hundreds of acts they have presented, and all of those who worked on the show, not to mention the audiences, both in the studio and at home (yes us the good old taxpayer).
Agreed. The BBC should hold the copyright and no presenter should be allowed to stop the repeats. Anyway my last word on the issue but so many will be missing from the mid 80's that for me they may as well just stop the repeats. We the licence payers were the ones paying his fees remember.
The problem is that Mike Smith presented a very heavy percentage of Top of the Pops programmes in the mid-80s, particularly around 1986-87.
Since the presenter is only on screen for about 3 minutes in each show, maybe the BBC could show his programmes with just the music playing and the chart rundown without the voiceover.
Thats one of the things we've asked since Yew Tree started affecting things & the Beeb have took no notice!
Very selfish of him to deprive people of seeing all the performances if you ask me. I don't see why he would have a problem, was he ashamed of presenting TOTP?
Have looked at the episodes and he didn't present a great deal of episodes in 1983 and 1984. And with the disappearance of Jimmy Savile, you won't notice a lot of difference to now.
The problem is 1985, 86 and 87 where he seemed to present it all the time. And we would miss a great deal of performances. I'm hoping the beeb can edit him out in some way. After all they can't use the excuse they used with JS and DLT as MS did nothing wrong.
I can see two other problems on the horizon for TOTP repeats, Jonathan King's Amercian chart report and a Gary Glitter revival. It looks a fair bit of editing will need to be done as GG had a popular comeback in 1983-84.
These are the numbers of episodes that can now be shown from each year:
1983 37
1984 38 (DLT and JS both step down as presenters this year)
1985 36
1986 36
1987 37
1988 49 (Mike stepped down as a presenter at the end of March)
So although we lose a lot of episodes, no year is worse than 1978 (35 episodes shown) or 1979 (34 episodes shown).
The worst hit time is September-October 1987 when four consecutive editions were hosted by Mike Smith and Gary Davies. Incidentally this covers the time when the chart announcement day changed from Tuesday to Sunday.
These are the numbers of episodes that can now be shown from each year:
1983 37
1984 38 (DLT and JS both step down as presenters this year)
1985 36
1986 36
1987 37
1988 49 (Mike stepped down as a presenter at the end of March)
So although we lose a lot of episodes, no year is worse than 1978 (35 episodes shown) or 1979 (34 episodes shown).
The worst hit time is September-October 1987 when four consecutive editions were hosted by Mike Smith and Gary Davies. Incidentally this covers the time when the chart announcement day changed from Tuesday to Sunday.
Thanks - very interesting, and it probably means we will see 1983 and 1984 next year ?
Thanks - very interesting, and it probably means we will see 1983 and 1984 next year ?
I would expect so - I'm sure no one wants to go back to having a long summer break again. The 75 episodes available for 1983 and 1984 together is almost the number as the 76 we will have seen from 1981 and 1982 this year.
Cheers dude, I absolutely adored the soul/club music of this era. So sophisticated, soulful with brilliant production techniques, something really missing in today's crossover 'urban/dance' music. We've got the Sharon Redd biggie 'Never Give You Up' coming up soon hopefully if it ain't yewtreed! Love the sound of that one ;-)
And another good track quoted. Love the long version of NGYU - and I particularly love the intro to the track and the all-round production.
It already has in a way. 'The Day Before You Came' was voted 3rd in 'The Nation's Favourite Abba Song' just behind 'Dancing Queen' and 'The Winner Takes It All'.
I know these 'Nation's favourite..' shows don't mean too much but nice to see it so high in the list. It has plenty of fans.
I remember seeing that programme & was surprised 'The Day Before You Came' was No 3 - another 80s Abba song I cannot get into.
I don't know what it is with Abba & their 80s hits - but they don't seem to do anything for me at all! Give me 70s Abba any day!!
Here is an update from the BBC on the Mike smith fronted episodes :
Thanks for getting in touch about Top of the Pops.
While he was alive, Mike Smith decided not to sign the licence extension that would allow the BBC to repeat the Top of the Pops episodes that he presented. Since his passing, the BBC is continuing to respect his wishes.
I hope this clarifies the situation for you.
Best wishes,
Richard Carey
BBC Enquiries Team
If, as I presume from the BIB the legal implications of Smith's refusal to sign the licence extension only applied for the duration of his lifetime (not ad infinitum) it seems strange that the BBC now have every right to broadcast the episodes he hosted but have chosen not to do so.
I'm pretty sure I saw a brief clip of Mike Smith introducing Wham!'s TOTP debut performance on one of Channel 4's Top Ten countdowns (possibly Boy Bands?) in the late 1990s/early 2000s.
A shame for fellow pop-pickers as I feel showing the TOTP's would have been a fitting tribute to what Mike Smith did best (broadcasting), but in the circumstances completely understandable and also a nice gesture I feel from the BBC to respect the wishes of Mike Smith if he felt this way about his performances.
Fair play to them on this occasion.
In which universe is the act of denying several hundred thousand TV licence payers access to programmes they funded on the basis of one (now sadly deceased) man's misguided belief that he didn't come across well on television considered 'fair play'
It's a shame about the Mike Smith episodes, but at least we still get to see The Lotus Eaters, The Smiths and Jimmy The Hoover next year, so not all bad.
Here is an update from the BBC on the Mike smith fronted episodes :
Thanks for getting in touch about Top of the Pops.
While he was alive, Mike Smith decided not to sign the licence extension that would allow the BBC to repeat the Top of the Pops episodes that he presented. Since his passing, the BBC is continuing to respect his wishes.
I hope this clarifies the situation for you.
Best wishes,
Richard Carey
BBC Enquiries Team
Thanks for that Scott - at least we have some clarity now.
Agreed. The BBC should hold the copyright and no presenter should be allowed to stop the repeats. Anyway my last word on the issue but so many will be missing from the mid 80's that for me they may as well just stop the repeats. We the licence payers were the ones paying his fees remember.
I know - it's like the whole show is jinxed. How difficult is it to watch a set of repeats without having to endure some cock up somewhere?!
Very selfish of him to deprive people of seeing all the performances if you ask me. I don't see why he would have a problem, was he ashamed of presenting TOTP?
Have looked at the episodes and he didn't present a great deal of episodes in 1983 and 1984. And with the disappearance of Jimmy Savile, you won't notice a lot of difference to now.
The problem is 1985, 86 and 87 where he seemed to present it all the time. And we would miss a great deal of performances. I'm hoping the beeb can edit him out in some way. After all they can't use the excuse they used with JS and DLT as MS did nothing wrong.
In which universe is the act of denying several hundred thousand TV licence payers access to programmes they funded on the basis of one (now sadly deceased) man's misguided belief that he didn't come across well on television considered 'fair play'
I'm normally an advocate of screening episodes as you probably know from my various tussles on here over the Years, but in this current hostile climate to the BBC, I think what would probably happen is this...
(Mike Smith episode broadcast)
Daily Mail headline the following day.
Outrage from Tunbridge Wells.
Sarah Greene approached for comment & interview (unfair but you know what the Media are like), likely to ask probing questions & hound her personally.
Possible legal ramifications against BBC with argy-bargy.
Daily Mail rub hands together with glee.
BBC axes Top of the Pops repeats as too toxic.
Daily Mail wins, music fans shafted (again).
As I said in my post following the one you've quoted, my personal preference would be liberal use of the editing scissors but unfortunately it's not up to myself or any forumites on here to decide these things & like Westy said, the Beeb normally take bugger all notice of the licence payer anyway on this matter amongst others.
I do have a certain sympathy (albeit limited) with the Beeb, as they're damned if they do & damned if they don't.
Part of the blame I feel lays at the door of modern sensationalist journalism rather than exclusively with the Beeb, though the Beeb have their moments of sensationalism too (the helicopter ride over Cliff's house springs to mind) & some of their decisions can occasionally defy belief and be self-serving.
All I can say is if rather see some episodes rather than none & if a DVD/download box set Yearbook became available with all the episodes unedited I'd certainly buy it.
I'd likely use the Jimbo ones as frisbees, but I don't think a complete box set will be available in my lifetime unless the BBC's archive is broken up & administered by (for instance) the BFI.
It almost becomes pointless carrying on with the repeats as we reach 1984 if Mike Smith's episodes won't be broadcast.
We will miss the fantastic episode that features Madonna's first uk performance. Also on the episode is Cyndi Lauper Girls Just Wanna Have Fun, The Smiths What Difference Does It Make and Echo and the Bunnyman The Killing Moon.
These shows are crucial to the repeats as we will miss so many legendary moments. They can't erase these moments from history. It's like showing half a programme. The bbc should do more to try and show these episodes or at least cut out the presenters.
It almost becomes pointless carrying on with the repeats as we reach 1984 if Mike Smith's episodes won't be broadcast.
We will miss the fantastic episode that features Madonna's first uk performance. Also on the episode is Cyndi Lauper Girls Just Wanna Have Fun, The Smiths What Difference Does It Make and Echo and the Bunnyman The Killing Moon.
These shows are crucial to the repeats as we will miss so many legendary moments. They can't erase these moments from history. It's like showing half a programme. The bbc should do more to try and show these episodes or at least cut out the presenters.
Facebook's BBC Four page seems to eventually get some answers, so it might be worth a go if you feel strongly enough.
The 'Official' route through the BBC website is bloody hopeless though as it goes through Capita in Belfast (who know next to nowt) & likely to give out standard cut and paste answers in reply.
It almost becomes pointless carrying on with the repeats as we reach 1984 if Mike Smith's episodes won't be broadcast.
We will miss the fantastic episode that features Madonna's first uk performance. Also on the episode is Cyndi Lauper Girls Just Wanna Have Fun, The Smiths What Difference Does It Make and Echo and the Bunnyman The Killing Moon.
These shows are crucial to the repeats as we will miss so many legendary moments. They can't erase these moments from history. It's like showing half a programme. The bbc should do more to try and show these episodes or at least cut out the presenters.
Well said Tele Addict - it's becoming like a joke now, trying to see these reruns!!
I remember seeing that programme & was surprised 'The Day Before You Came' was No 3 - another 80s Abba song I cannot get into.
I don't know what it is with Abba & their 80s hits - but they don't seem to do anything for me at all! Give me 70s Abba any day!!
I am a huge ABBA Fan, but I did not like 'The Day Before You Came' in 1982.
I even rang Epic Records, at the time, to ask if 'Cassandra', (the 'B' Side), could
be made the 'A' Side. That one was about Ancient Troy & the Ancient Greeks
destruction of that City. Cassandra was the daughter of King Priam of Troy. She
had predicted that Troy was about to fall, but no-one listened to her).
However, the person, whom I spoke to at Epic , insisted that 'The Day Before
You Came' was going to be a big Hit. It eventually peaked at No.32 - ABBA's
lowest Charting UK Single since 'I Do, I Do, I Do, I Do, I Do' got to No.38 in 1975.
Benny & Bjorn have actually admitted that if only 'The Day Before You Came'
had reached the UK Top 10 in 1982, then ABBA would probably have carried
on for a while longer. The UK Charts were very important to ABBA, and they
lost all interest in carrying on, when that Single did not even reach the Top 30.
(ABBA only released one more new Single - 'Under Attack', in late 1982, and
that only reached No.26. They then split up).
Sir Tim Rice warned Benny & Bjorn that the Single would struggle, in the UK,
at the time. He said that he felt the change in style was probably too drastic
for UK Fans to accept. He was right.
It was a much bigger Hit in several other Countries - No.2 in Finland. No.3 in
Sweden, The Netherlands, & Belgium. No.4 in Switzerland. No.5 in Germany
& Norway. No.12 in Ireland. No.2 in the Euro Charts, which were based on
the Singles Charts of several European Countries.
So, its UK No.32 peak did not mean that it was an International flop - far from it.
I now love 'The Day Before You Came', and it is the favourite ABBA song of
a lot of other Pop Stars. That includes the UK Duo Blancmange, who covered
it in 1984, & reached No.22 in the Charts with it. The only time that a cover of
an ABBA song, did better, in the UK Charts, than ABBA's original. (In 1974, there
was the case of 'Honey Honey' reaching No.10, for UK Duo, Sweet Dreams,
but ABBA's original version was never released as a UK Single).
The fact that ABBA's 3 UK 1982 Singles only reached No.25, No.32 & No.26
in the Charts was not due to ABBA no longer being popular. After all, at the end
of 1982 they had their 8th UK No.1 Album, in a row, with 'The Singles - The First
Ten Years'. That sold 700,000 copies in the UK. ABBA still had to be popular,
to manage that. It was just that the UK was not keen on any of their 1982 Singles.
Comments
Maybe with multiple editions?!? ;-)
Wholly agree with Gary Baldi in the BIB.
A shame for fellow pop-pickers as I feel showing the TOTP's would have been a fitting tribute to what Mike Smith did best (broadcasting), but in the circumstances completely understandable and also a nice gesture I feel from the BBC to respect the wishes of Mike Smith if he felt this way about his performances.
I'm also quite impressed the BBC (for once) decided to put the info out there relatively quickly before Sarah Greene became overwhelmed with queries.
Fair play to them on this occasion.
Since the presenter is only on screen for about 3 minutes in each show, maybe the BBC could show his programmes with just the music playing and the chart rundown without the voiceover.
Agree partially with you Avid & I've long been an advocate of the compromise of showing the acts sans presenter (up to now in the case of 'they who shall not be named'), forming part of a compilation for that specific chart Week, accompanied with a visual rundown of the Weeks chart to accompany (using an instrumental of Yellow Pearl).
How this would look & sound overall without affecting the flow of the show too greatly I'm unsure (a fade here or an overlay there etc.)
Probably like a bag of spanners (!)
We've been going through TOTP with the chart equivalent of having the pages ripped out anyway & with the availability of shows, ahem, 'from other avenues', I must admit I can't remember an edition in recent times I didn't see, albeit the missing episodes are in mostly questionable SD quality, but I think it's the best compromise that can be hoped for if you want a complete overview.
Edit: Just spotted 'tother Andy's post above mine..
Agreed. The BBC should hold the copyright and no presenter should be allowed to stop the repeats. Anyway my last word on the issue but so many will be missing from the mid 80's that for me they may as well just stop the repeats. We the licence payers were the ones paying his fees remember.
Thats one of the things we've asked since Yew Tree started affecting things & the Beeb have took no notice!
Have looked at the episodes and he didn't present a great deal of episodes in 1983 and 1984. And with the disappearance of Jimmy Savile, you won't notice a lot of difference to now.
The problem is 1985, 86 and 87 where he seemed to present it all the time. And we would miss a great deal of performances. I'm hoping the beeb can edit him out in some way. After all they can't use the excuse they used with JS and DLT as MS did nothing wrong.
1983 37
1984 38 (DLT and JS both step down as presenters this year)
1985 36
1986 36
1987 37
1988 49 (Mike stepped down as a presenter at the end of March)
So although we lose a lot of episodes, no year is worse than 1978 (35 episodes shown) or 1979 (34 episodes shown).
The worst hit time is September-October 1987 when four consecutive editions were hosted by Mike Smith and Gary Davies. Incidentally this covers the time when the chart announcement day changed from Tuesday to Sunday.
Thanks - very interesting, and it probably means we will see 1983 and 1984 next year ?
And another good track quoted. Love the long version of NGYU - and I particularly love the intro to the track and the all-round production.
I remember seeing that programme & was surprised 'The Day Before You Came' was No 3 - another 80s Abba song I cannot get into.
I don't know what it is with Abba & their 80s hits - but they don't seem to do anything for me at all! Give me 70s Abba any day!!
If, as I presume from the BIB the legal implications of Smith's refusal to sign the licence extension only applied for the duration of his lifetime (not ad infinitum) it seems strange that the BBC now have every right to broadcast the episodes he hosted but have chosen not to do so.
I'm pretty sure I saw a brief clip of Mike Smith introducing Wham!'s TOTP debut performance on one of Channel 4's Top Ten countdowns (possibly Boy Bands?) in the late 1990s/early 2000s.
In which universe is the act of denying several hundred thousand TV licence payers access to programmes they funded on the basis of one (now sadly deceased) man's misguided belief that he didn't come across well on television considered 'fair play'
Thanks for that Scott - at least we have some clarity now.
I know - it's like the whole show is jinxed. How difficult is it to watch a set of repeats without having to endure some cock up somewhere?!
At least that's one blessing for us 'early 80s' fans - Mike's episodes were mainly from 86 onwards! Phew!
I'm normally an advocate of screening episodes as you probably know from my various tussles on here over the Years, but in this current hostile climate to the BBC, I think what would probably happen is this...
(Mike Smith episode broadcast)
Daily Mail headline the following day.
Outrage from Tunbridge Wells.
Sarah Greene approached for comment & interview (unfair but you know what the Media are like), likely to ask probing questions & hound her personally.
Possible legal ramifications against BBC with argy-bargy.
Daily Mail rub hands together with glee.
BBC axes Top of the Pops repeats as too toxic.
Daily Mail wins, music fans shafted (again).
As I said in my post following the one you've quoted, my personal preference would be liberal use of the editing scissors but unfortunately it's not up to myself or any forumites on here to decide these things & like Westy said, the Beeb normally take bugger all notice of the licence payer anyway on this matter amongst others.
I do have a certain sympathy (albeit limited) with the Beeb, as they're damned if they do & damned if they don't.
Part of the blame I feel lays at the door of modern sensationalist journalism rather than exclusively with the Beeb, though the Beeb have their moments of sensationalism too (the helicopter ride over Cliff's house springs to mind) & some of their decisions can occasionally defy belief and be self-serving.
All I can say is if rather see some episodes rather than none & if a DVD/download box set Yearbook became available with all the episodes unedited I'd certainly buy it.
I'd likely use the Jimbo ones as frisbees, but I don't think a complete box set will be available in my lifetime unless the BBC's archive is broken up & administered by (for instance) the BFI.
Who knows though?
We will miss the fantastic episode that features Madonna's first uk performance. Also on the episode is Cyndi Lauper Girls Just Wanna Have Fun, The Smiths What Difference Does It Make and Echo and the Bunnyman The Killing Moon.
These shows are crucial to the repeats as we will miss so many legendary moments. They can't erase these moments from history. It's like showing half a programme. The bbc should do more to try and show these episodes or at least cut out the presenters.
https://www.indy100.com/article/photographer-finds-spots-around-london-where-album-covers-were-taken-7456566
Facebook's BBC Four page seems to eventually get some answers, so it might be worth a go if you feel strongly enough.
The 'Official' route through the BBC website is bloody hopeless though as it goes through Capita in Belfast (who know next to nowt) & likely to give out standard cut and paste answers in reply.
Well said Tele Addict - it's becoming like a joke now, trying to see these reruns!!
I am a huge ABBA Fan, but I did not like 'The Day Before You Came' in 1982.
I even rang Epic Records, at the time, to ask if 'Cassandra', (the 'B' Side), could
be made the 'A' Side. That one was about Ancient Troy & the Ancient Greeks
destruction of that City. Cassandra was the daughter of King Priam of Troy. She
had predicted that Troy was about to fall, but no-one listened to her).
CASSANDRA - ABBA - (1982)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYIlDt9in6Q
However, the person, whom I spoke to at Epic , insisted that 'The Day Before
You Came' was going to be a big Hit. It eventually peaked at No.32 - ABBA's
lowest Charting UK Single since 'I Do, I Do, I Do, I Do, I Do' got to No.38 in 1975.
Benny & Bjorn have actually admitted that if only 'The Day Before You Came'
had reached the UK Top 10 in 1982, then ABBA would probably have carried
on for a while longer. The UK Charts were very important to ABBA, and they
lost all interest in carrying on, when that Single did not even reach the Top 30.
(ABBA only released one more new Single - 'Under Attack', in late 1982, and
that only reached No.26. They then split up).
Sir Tim Rice warned Benny & Bjorn that the Single would struggle, in the UK,
at the time. He said that he felt the change in style was probably too drastic
for UK Fans to accept. He was right.
It was a much bigger Hit in several other Countries - No.2 in Finland. No.3 in
Sweden, The Netherlands, & Belgium. No.4 in Switzerland. No.5 in Germany
& Norway. No.12 in Ireland. No.2 in the Euro Charts, which were based on
the Singles Charts of several European Countries.
So, its UK No.32 peak did not mean that it was an International flop - far from it.
I now love 'The Day Before You Came', and it is the favourite ABBA song of
a lot of other Pop Stars. That includes the UK Duo Blancmange, who covered
it in 1984, & reached No.22 in the Charts with it. The only time that a cover of
an ABBA song, did better, in the UK Charts, than ABBA's original. (In 1974, there
was the case of 'Honey Honey' reaching No.10, for UK Duo, Sweet Dreams,
but ABBA's original version was never released as a UK Single).
The fact that ABBA's 3 UK 1982 Singles only reached No.25, No.32 & No.26
in the Charts was not due to ABBA no longer being popular. After all, at the end
of 1982 they had their 8th UK No.1 Album, in a row, with 'The Singles - The First
Ten Years'. That sold 700,000 copies in the UK. ABBA still had to be popular,
to manage that. It was just that the UK was not keen on any of their 1982 Singles.