Male puppy, neuter or not?

tim_smith · 12/09/14 - 12:44

Hi, just got a 7 week old Golden Labradoodle and I already have a two year old Springerdoodle and she has been spayed. What are peoples' thought on neutering Max my 7 week old Labradoodle, when the time comes. I am not keen on doing it just for the sake of it, however, is there any health reasons why he should be neutered? I wonder.

I am interested in the for and against neutering male dogs debate really.

Thanks.

Elizabeth.

P.S. My two year old Springerdoodle is fine with him.

Moggio · 12/09/14 - 12:54

It should be a requirement for all dogs to be neutered.

[Deleted User] · 12/09/14 - 13:22

Moggio wrote: »

It should be a requirement for all dogs to be neutered.

I disagree. Why should it?

I got mine down when he was 3 OP, but do wish I had him done earlier.

MrsWatermelon · 12/09/14 - 13:29

Yes, absolutely. He will be happier without frequent urges that he has no outlet for, and it mitigates many behaviour problems.

Moggio wrote: »

It should be a requirement for all dogs to be neutered.

Agree.

Absolutely · 12/09/14 - 14:37

I had one dog once who I had to have done at age 10 years because he got prostrate problems. Vet told me if they are done, they dont get these illness.
All my dogs over the years have been done since.

radcliffe95 · 12/09/14 - 14:43

Moggio wrote: »

It should be a requirement for all dogs to be neutered.

Surely the species would eventually become extinct??

tim_smith · 12/09/14 - 14:43

Hi.

Thanks for your answers. I've always had girl dogs so dogs and their bits have never been on my mind before

I have done a little research and see it will benefit him if he is neutered. He has his first inoculation this Tuesday and I will discuss this with my vet and book him in for neutering.

At what age is he eligible for this op?

Thanks again.

Elizabeth.
P.S. If all dogs were neutered wouldn't the species die out?
Post above just beat me to it

StressMonkey · 12/09/14 - 14:56

Neutering in males is fairly breed specific. You have to balance the increased risk of bone cancer in some breeds against the absent risk of (rare) testicular cancer & Prostate cancer.

For most breeds there is a slight health benefit to neutering.

Behaviourally, less likely to try to escape and generally easier to train as they are not distracted.

When depends on breed & size. As a general rule, the bigger they are, the older they need to be before neutering to allow them to mature and to allow the growth plates to stop growing.

I take it Max is a mix of Golden Retriever, Labrador and Standard Poodle? If he was mine I'd wait until 18 months..

Edit: 7 weeks:o He shouldn't really have left mum until 8 weeks

[Deleted User] · 12/09/14 - 14:58

radcliffe95 wrote: »

Surely the species would eventually become extinct??

Exactly. If you have a nice dog with a nice temperament then you should breed it, then get it done, but obviously only if you have good homes for the pups before breeding. But it shouldn't be done straight away.

tim_smith · 12/09/14 - 15:39

He was 7 weeks 6 days when I got him, he's 8 weeks old. So not too far off 8 weeks. Don't worry, he's doing very well. He's thriving and my Springerdoodle female has taken him under her wing,

His mum is 22" to neck and is a Labradoodle (Standard Poodle crossed with a small Labrador) - his father is 20" to neck and is a small yellow Labrador.

So, it's down to his breed and size as to the best age to neuter him, crikey!

The more I read, the more confused I've become regarding neutering him as there are so many many conflicting reports and personal opinion to know what the best thing to do for Max.

Will talk it through with my vet, who hopefully can help.

Thanks again.

[Deleted User] · 12/09/14 - 15:53

I wouldn't neuter until he is fully mature, about 2 years IMO.
Too early can raise the risks of joint disorders and certain cancers, common in that mi of breeds.

Socialise him well and he won't be a problem, lots of dogs are intact, it's a myth they are all permanently frustrated

StressMonkey · 12/09/14 - 15:54

tim_smith wrote: »

He was 7 weeks 6 days when I got him. So not too far off 8 weeks. Don't worry, he's doing very well. He's thriving and my Springerdoodle female has taken him under her wing,

I'd call tht 8 weeks

His mum is a Labradoodle (Standard Poodle crossed with a small Labrador) - his father is a small yellow Labrador. Been told he will grow no larger 22" (neck) - but who can tell?

So where does the 'Golden' come in? I get confused with these new mixer names

Lab X Poodle is much simpler

So, it's down to his breed and size as to the best age to neuter him, crikey!

I don't think Labs nor St Poodles are more prone to bone cancer but some breeds (I think one was Gordon Setters - been a long time since I did the research!!) have a greatly increased risk of bone cancer after neuter. The two cancers that castration removes the risk of are Testicular, which is rare, and Prostate which is not always aggressive. So the health benefits are not as great as some vets/rescues make out. However - health isn't the only reason.

Behaviourally, it will reduce any testosterone lead unwanted behaviour such as straying. And without the distraction of 'cherchez la femme' I have found boys to be much easier to train

That said, in a timid dog fear aggression can get worse after neuter so it isn't a behavioural panacea either.

When is very much size as mentioned. The earliest most vets will do is 6 months and most are now clued up enough to only neuter big dogs when they have stopped growing and maturing.

The more I read, the more confused I've become regarding neutering him as there are so many many conflicting reports and personal opinion to know what the best thing to do for Max.

Will talk it through with my vet, who hopefully can help.

Thanks again.

Haha - girls are so much easier. Whipping it all out at 6 months is a no-brainer.:D

(though some large breeds could probably wait a little while.....)

tim_smith · 12/09/14 - 16:06

Thanks StressMonkey.

Yes, he was eight weeks in my books too.

I said golden because he's yellow really, that's my only excuse, sorry:p

He's a Labradoodle from now on, I promise ;-)

Wish I'd got a girl now

I could have at least said "come here girls" much less complicated.

I am still looking to neuter him, (I think, heavens, I cannot make my mind up now), will see what my vet says.

I hope they know their stuff.

Thanks again.

CBFreak · 12/09/14 - 16:09

Wait until he is a little bit older I suggest. But there is more benefits imo to neutering then not. And then there is also the fact he can may not get pregnant being male but can get non spayed bitches pregnant.

(I personally believe the bare minimum age a Pup should leave it's mother is 8 weeks. Ideally though no pup should be taken from it's mother until about 12 weeks)

burton07 · 12/09/14 - 16:15

I too had this dilemma when I got my Border x JRT. My vet said, unless he has behavioral problems (which he didn't) then leave it. I asked him again a couple of years later and he said the same thing. The only problem now is that he can be aggressive with other un-neutered dogs - or more to the point, they are aggressive with him! There is a big un-neutered golden retriever in my village and he is very aggressive with my terrier. He is a young dog and his owner doesn't always keep him on a lead. The other problem is that there is an unspayed bitch in the village and, twice a year, my dog goes off his food and mopes a bit. If it was up to me, I'd have him neutered but OH says no.

He is very good with children and never "humps" them.

tim_smith · 12/09/14 - 16:40

Thanks Burton07.

I really need a lye down now, my head hurts

.

Have a lot to think about, but I am enjoying Max at the moment and the future of his bits can be put on hold for now, so to speak.

Definitely should have got a girl ;-)

Perhaps I could do a swap, just kidding.

StressMonkey · 12/09/14 - 16:48

burton07 wrote: »

I too had this dilemma when I got my Border x JRT. My vet said, unless he has behavioral problems (which he didn't) then leave it. I asked him again a couple of years later and he said the same thing. The only problem now is that he can be aggressive with other un-neutered dogs - or more to the point, they are aggressive with him! There is a big un-neutered golden retriever in my village and he is very aggressive with my terrier. He is a young dog and his owner doesn't always keep him on a lead. The other problem is that there is an unspayed bitch in the village and, twice a year, my dog goes off his food and mopes a bit. If it was up to me, I'd have him neutered but OH says no.

He is very good with children and never "humps" them.

That was the main reason for getting Murphy neutered. Very humpy dog - he raped the cat and a veritable assortment of soft toys - and a baby about to start crawling. Not a good mix. So the bits had to go. Added bonus for him was that his obedience improved so he could go off lead more often.

duffsdad · 12/09/14 - 17:34

None of my dogs have ever had it done. Never had any behaviour or health issues with them because of that choice.

[Deleted User] · 12/09/14 - 20:35

I have always had entire males. Never had a tumour, behavioural problems, humping issues, frustrated dogs, roaming dogs or unwanted puppies. My current two dogs are both male and entire. One is a Stafford nearly 14 years old, the other a Chihuahua 1 year old. They never bicker, or have any so called dominance issues.
Entire or not, it all comes down to teaching the pup manners, and training in general.
I have never found any need or benefits to castration.
I'd only ever do so for medical reasons. Testicular cancer, which is rare and usually benign. or prostate enlargements, again usually benign.
However, a prostrate tumour in a castrated male, although rare, will invariably be malignant.
Theres also the issue already raised, of castration actually making a fearful dog much worse.
Over 25 years as a Veterinary Nurse has given me enough experience to make an informed opinion on elective castration, and its not a positive one.
These days too many people use it as a quick fix to remedy a lack of training, which inevitably fails miserably.

molliepops · 12/09/14 - 21:49

As has been said depends on temperament our old Benny was neutered no problems, he was as confident after as he was before, our old Duncan was neutered and we had terrible problems he was nervous before and terribly aggressive and nervous afterwards.

Really look at your dog before doing it because once the damage is done nothing can change it.

It's different for girls they need to be done for health reasons.

StressMonkey · 12/09/14 - 22:20

molliepops wrote: »

As has been said depends on temperament our old Benny was neutered no problems, he was as confident after as he was before, our old Duncan was neutered and we had terrible problems he was nervous before and terribly aggressive and nervous afterwards.

Really look at your dog before doing it because once the damage is done nothing can change it.

It's different for girls they need to be done for health reasons.

Good advice there mollie:)

Muze · 12/09/14 - 22:25

There is little need to neuter most males IMO, at least until maturity, if ever.

if you cannot control an intact dog, don't have one at all

CollieWobbles · 12/09/14 - 23:44

Neutering is completely personal choice and preference. Unlike a female though, which has several real benefits for doing it, with a male, it depends on the dog. Yes it stops them having the urge to wander, cock their legs up everything, prevents certain cancers, be responsible for unwanted puppies and removes the testosterone swarming around so that they are calm down, but a lot of people think it is a quick fix to some behaviour problems and its not. It can calm down boisterous or aggressive dogs, but on the other hand it can make a timid or nervous dog more aggressive. Weight it up carefully, if your dog pulls you around on walks, begs, steals and barks, is it going to stop him doing this? No. If your dog keeps jumping the fence to run after every female in a five mile radius or won't leave your existing girl alone, will it stop him doing this? Most probably yes. There are no guarantees, and it may reduce the behaviour you don't want, but not completely stop it, for instance, a lot of people think a neutered dog will magically stop being interested in a bitch. Why would he? His nose still works to smell what she is, and his brain still sends natural messages to act a certain way around her! Something else to consider, being neutered doesn't always stop humping, many people don't realise this and can get disappointed about why their snipped dog is still doing the very thing they wanted him fixed for. Many neutered dogs will still hump because as well as being about sex ( which neutering will stop), it's also about dominance ( which it won't) which is why bitches also do it. A dg will hump another to assert dominance over it, ie a resident dog might do it to a new dog to show it whose the boss and not to overstep the mark, or to assert authority between them. So unless you really want him done, or he's showing signs that it would be beneficial, I would give it some serious consideration and thought.

Best age varies, but generally, 18 months is recommended, when he is fully mature. The reason it varies is that breeds mature differently, a tiny dog like a yorkie for instance mature quickly, and would be classed mature at around 7 months. Large breeds such as Great Danes on the other hand take around 2 years to reach adult maturity. The standard average sized breeds take around 18 months.

Oh and just for you to know, there is no such thing as a golden Labradoodle, it's either a Labradoodle ( Labrador x poodle) or goldendoodle ( golden retriever x poodle). There's no such thing as a golden labrador either, it's mainly a US term for a Labrador/ golden retriever cross, or used by some as a term for a deep shade in the yellow labs:)

[Deleted User] · 13/09/14 - 00:37

Neutering no ways calms all dogs' urges. We meet a randy big poodle on our walks. A beautiful animal, he will suddenly dive for our little lady then when prevented turns his armourous intentions on us humans. I really do despair at the demonisation of those of us who may choose to breed our dogs. Our breed is less usual one and litters are snapped up. I agree it's obviously the better option for many animals and owners but not all..if we'd like the dog population to grow in the right way.

riversmum · 13/09/14 - 10:26

Lizaj wrote: »

Neutering no ways calms all dogs' urges. We meet a randy big poodle on our walks. A beautiful animal, he will suddenly dive for our little lady then when prevented turns his armourous intentions on us humans. I really do despair at the demonisation of those of us who may choose to breed our dogs. Our breed is less usual one and litters are snapped up. I agree it's obviously the better option for many animals and owners but not all..if we'd like the dog population to grow in the right way.

Ok so hopefully you homecheck and home responsibly including taking back any dog you've bred if they can no longer keep it for any reason. But what about those who don't? and breed irresponsibly without taking account of health problems and the puppy farm and backyard breeders. And the idiots who breed siblings or even parents to offspring??? Oh and not to mention all the unwanted dogs - 21 a day killed as pounds are too full? And the ones who perished in the fire at Manchester Dogs home? Adopt a rescue.

Neuter. We had a male who couldn't be done for medical reasons and twice a year he'd get the scent of a bitch - different ones and we'd have at least a week of hell where he'd be so unhappy, wouldn't eat, if he was in he wanted to be out and out if he was in, howled (at night too) sailed over a 6' + gate that any other time he'd never bother, in fact we didn't think he could. When he got old it still happened and we took him to the vets for an injection to temporarily calm his hormones as we thought it was physically too much for him to get into that state. Fortunately we had very understanding neighbours!

I'd say leave it until he is fully mature and stopped growing but he may start to hump your dog before that and if it causes a problem then see your vet and see when they suggest doing it. It does protect against prostate cancer.

molliepops · 13/09/14 - 13:52

riversmum wrote: »

Ok so hopefully you homecheck and home responsibly including taking back any dog you've bred if they can no longer keep it for any reason. But what about those who don't? and breed irresponsibly without taking account of health problems and the puppy farm and backyard breeders. And the idiots who breed siblings or even parents to offspring??? Oh and not to mention all the unwanted dogs - 21 a day killed as pounds are too full? And the ones who perished in the fire at Manchester Dogs home? Adopt a rescue.

Neuter. We had a male who couldn't be done for medical reasons and twice a year he'd get the scent of a bitch - different ones and we'd have at least a week of hell where he'd be so unhappy, wouldn't eat, if he was in he wanted to be out and out if he was in, howled (at night too) sailed over a 6' + gate that any other time he'd never bother, in fact we didn't think he could. When he got old it still happened and we took him to the vets for an injection to temporarily calm his hormones as we thought it was physically too much for him to get into that state. Fortunately we had very understanding neighbours!

I'd say leave it until he is fully mature and stopped growing but he may start to hump your dog before that and if it causes a problem then see your vet and see when they suggest doing it. It does protect against prostate cancer.

I am not convinced of that Benny was neutered as I said but went on to have prostate cancer at 6 years old and again at 13 and it was what killed him in the end.

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