I think the black viewers are more likely to vote for black singers in fact. Do they ever vote for the white artists? This needs to be asked.[/QUOTE
I think have voted for 4 people in the history of the show, if my memory does not fail me. Laura White, Alexandra Burke, Rachel Hylton and Luke Friend. I don't base my voting selection on the colour of people's skin, but on their talent. I am more likely to vote for acts who sing r'n'b or soul music, just because those are my preferred genres. They are some black/mixed race acts who I thought were not very good like Nicholas from series 2 and Ashley from series 3.
I'm obviously in the minority but I much prefer Kelly to Beyonce. I love Kellys voice and I think her musical output has been superior imo.
I can see Beyonce is talented but her songs have all been pretty 'meh' to me. Apart from Crazy In Love, I can't think of a single song of hers I haven't thought 'so what' when I've heard it
Well everyone is totally entitled to their own opinions & have different likes & dislikes which is great.
Kelly is brilliant... But i think the sales figures of Beyonces songs etc in comparison speak volumes. Kelly will always be in Queen Bs shadow 😎
I love threads like this, especially when the only two girls to win have been black.
I think if you read back you'll find your missing part of the story by saying that. But it is a fair point.
Alexandra and Leona are two of the best singers to grace the competition which explains a lot.
Alexandra, Little Mix and Hannah are the only artists I can remember voting for more than once.
The weakness of Alexandra's follow up career is a mystery to me. There is this notion that she is not a likeable person. And I don't know where that comes from. Alexandra was possibly the best singer, the prettiest, the sexiest, the funniest female and a pretty decent dancer too. All the ingredients that actually should have made her if not a global superstar at least a major pop star. But where is she now?
Given the percentage of people in this country who would not describe their ethnic origin as white is about 13%, and more than 13% of the finalists in X Factor are "non-white"; and further, that the the acts voted out in weeks 1 and 2 are nearly always white, the statement that the show or the voting public are subconsciously racist is simply wrong!
MY fave was Hannah too and I'm white, but I did wonder why the GBP didn't get behind her and were so critical of her. I think looks play a massive part in popularity in these contests. When you hear someone sing on the radio you don't know what they look like. I was quite surprised when I first saw Adele for example because she doesn't look like she sounds.
Well personally I didn't like Hannah because Sob Story, same as I didn't like (white, male) Joseph because Sob Story (though how they made 'I have a son!' into a sob story is beyond me). I don't think I'm the only one, people seem to react really badly to the sob stories now, thankfully. A lot of people seemed to find Joseph physically attractive (ewww) but were turned right off by the sob story. I don't think Hannah's looks worked against her nearly as much as the miserable face early on, and then what seemed like a false Cheerful Hannah that appeared later, once they realised that the sob story wasn't working.
Given the percentage of people in this country who would not describe their ethnic origin as white is about 13%, and more than 13% of the finalists in X Factor are "non-white"; and further, that the the acts voted out in weeks 1 and 2 are nearly always white, the statement that the show or the voting public are subconsciously racist is simply wrong!
Actually it is the fact that people are not comfortable with addressing issues of racism and colourism that might be a better indicator of implicit racism.
And as i have said in posts before what on earth has that got to do with her singing ability? The fact remains that the mafority of people that vote are only interested in white people being in the final, and its all pretty sad really.
Actually it is the fact that people are not comfortable with addressing issues of racism and colourism that might be a better indicator of implicit racism.
WHAT is fact?
WHO are the "people" you are referring to?
HOW are they uncomfortable?
HOW is not voting for Hannah "implicit racism"?
Personally I rarely vote on the X Factor. But if I did vote regularly, I would not have voted for Hannah, because IMHO she comes across as a dour moody cow, had no star quality and these issues prevented me from appreciating her excellent, tho not outstanding, vocals.
The fact that you appear to be implying that everyone who votes on the show is racist, is, ironically, the most racist attitude I've seen on this thread!
WHAT is fact?
WHO are the "people" you are referring to?
HOW are they uncomfortable?
HOW is not voting for Hannah "implicit racism"?
Personally I rarely vote on the X Factor. But if I did vote regularly, I would not have voted for Hannah, because IMHO she comes across as a dour moody cow, had no star quality and these issues prevented me from appreciating her excellent, tho not outstanding, vocals.
The fact that you appear to be implying that everyone who votes on the show is racist, is, ironically, the most racist attitude I've seen on this thread!
The concept of racism relates to cultural and social hegemony as much as it does to colour of skin which is why all your comments are quite naive in both their expression and judgement.
Well I have another theory - that mixed race people might actually be better singers - that somehow they have the best of both worlds and maybe their tone and vocal chords might just sound rich and smooth and they may have had a wider musical influence. This could explain why mixed race people are seemingly getting a 'better deal' on the show and in the wider music business...JMHO.
Well I have another theory - that mixed race people might actually be better singers - that somehow they have the best of both worlds and maybe their tone and vocal chords might just sound rich and smooth and they may have had a wider musical influence. This could explain why mixed race people are seemingly getting a 'better deal' on the show and in the wider music business...JMHO.
We better start checking family trees so we can come up with the ideal mix then! They can have a winner's song of Melting Pot by Blue Mink!
Everyone always brings up the "Alexandra won" thing.
However, in Alexandra's year the public - and media - were against Rachel Hylton. If Rachel wasn't there would Alex of been the one the public were against? Probably. But will we ever know? Nope.
Well I have another theory - that mixed race people might actually be better singers - that somehow they have the best of both worlds and maybe their tone and vocal chords might just sound rich and smooth and they may have had a wider musical influence. This could explain why mixed race people are seemingly getting a 'better deal' on the show and in the wider music business...JMHO.
Everyone always brings up the "Alexandra won" thing.
However, in Alexandra's year the public - and media - were against Rachel Hylton. If Rachel wasn't there would Alex of been the one the public were against? Probably. But will we ever know? Nope.
I seem to remember that Alexandra had to give standout performances each week just to stay in the competition. Even in Leona's time praise was like hard to come by. Sharon used to say things like your vocals are wonderful but...... and Louis looked like he was hating every minute. Leona probably gave 4 or 5 almost iconic performances the best of which, Summertime, Louis gave the highest praise grudgingly saying it was probably the best performance of the night.
I actually think that racial attitudes have improved radically in the UK over the last 10 years which I think is a reflection of the younger generations not having the inbuilt hang ups earlier ones had. This is also reflected in the cosmopolitan collection of artistes in the UK and the the across the board appreciation of those musicians.
I would consider however that in the older generations of X factor voters there may still be a hangover from earlier times. Not the outright racist attitudes of their youth but only a grudging acceptance that earlier attitudes were wrong and not able to fully embrace what they may still see as alien cultures.
I seem to remember that Alexandra had to give standout performances each week just to stay in the competition. Even in Leona's time praise was like hard to come by. Sharon used to say things like your vocals are wonderful but...... and Louis looked like he was hating every minute. Leona probably gave 4 or 5 almost iconic performances the best of which, Summertime, Louis gave the highest praise grudgingly saying it was probably the best performance of the night.
I actually think that racial attitudes have improved radically in the UK over the last 10 years which I think is a reflection of the younger generations not having the inbuilt hang ups earlier ones had. This is also reflected in the cosmopolitan collection of artistes in the UK and the the across the board appreciation of those musicians.
I would consider however that in the older generations of X factor voters there may still be a hangover from earlier times. Not the outright racist attitudes of their youth but only a grudging acceptance that earlier attitudes were wrong and not able to fully embrace what they may still see as alien cultures.
I think Oprah Winfrey said something like we'd only get rid of racism after all the old folks have died - which sort of goes in line with what you're saying there.
Well I have another theory - that mixed race people might actually be better singers - that somehow they have the best of both worlds and maybe their tone and vocal chords might just sound rich and smooth and they may have had a wider musical influence. This could explain why mixed race people are seemingly getting a 'better deal' on the show and in the wider music business...JMHO.
Can you please explain your theory? I find your post to be a bit insensitive and inflammatory, although I am sure it was not meant that way.
And as i have said in posts before what on earth has that got to do with her singing ability? The fact remains that the mafority of people that vote are only interested in white people being in the final, and its all pretty sad really.
so why are rough copy still in the competition then ?
I seem to remember that Alexandra had to give standout performances each week just to stay in the competition. Even in Leona's time praise was like hard to come by. Sharon used to say things like your vocals are wonderful but...... and Louis looked like he was hating every minute. Leona probably gave 4 or 5 almost iconic performances the best of which, Summertime, Louis gave the highest praise grudgingly saying it was probably the best performance of the night.
I actually think that racial attitudes have improved radically in the UK over the last 10 years which I think is a reflection of the younger generations not having the inbuilt hang ups earlier ones had. This is also reflected in the cosmopolitan collection of artistes in the UK and the the across the board appreciation of those musicians.
I would consider however that in the older generations of X factor voters there may still be a hangover from earlier times. Not the outright racist attitudes of their youth but only a grudging acceptance that earlier attitudes were wrong and not able to fully embrace what they may still see as alien cultures.
What age do you consider to be 'older generations'? I'm in my 40's and people my age grew up with artists like Stevie Wonder, George Benson and Luther Vandross being the mainstream chart acts. In the 70's and 80's, soul and dance music was massive and most of the people into those genres were white kids, who are now todays middle aged so it's probably not accurate to say that it's the last 10 years where the young have changed attitudes.
Music has been crossing racial divides and bringing people from different backgrounds together for decades.
No... Beyonce's voice, charisma and stage presence give her the edge over Kelly Rowland. Nothing to do with skin tone at all!
No doubt Kelly is gorgeous & so is Beyonce- but Beyonce wins based on her phenomenal talent.
Now that's the case, but back in the day, they were roughly in the same boat in Destiny's Child.
Beyonce's success has a lot to do with skin colour, like when would Kelly be on an ad for Loreal lol.
I think if you read back you'll find your missing part of the story by saying that. But it is a fair point.
Alexandra and Leona are two of the best singers to grace the competition which explains a lot.
Alexandra, Little Mix and Hannah are the only artists I can remember voting for more than once.
The weakness of Alexandra's follow up career is a mystery to me. There is this notion that she is not a likeable person. And I don't know where that comes from. Alexandra was possibly the best singer, the prettiest, the sexiest, the funniest female and a pretty decent dancer too. All the ingredients that actually should have made her if not a global superstar at least a major pop star. But where is she now?
Music. She fell victim to the thing all black acts do. You have to peddle both worlds, something her white contemporaries never really have to do. If you're too pop, most black audiences will not pay much attention. I became a huge fan because for me, she was one of the only contestants on XF to be able to actually have a serious career afterwards. She literally was stunning. Her debut was on point, and was the example of what I meant by serious career. Her 2nd album wrecked the whole thing (But that's a BIG issue to talk about haha). She has a lot of confidence, which wasn't apparent on the show in her interviews. She cried a heck of a lot. It's the whole ''wallflower'' theory which is common here, but not so much in the US.
The concept of racism relates to cultural and social hegemony as much as it does to colour of skin which is why all your comments are quite naive in both their expression and judgement.
So naïve that you cannot answer any of the questions I raised?
I don't relate to them because they don't sing the type of music that I listen to. I don't mind the odd bit of rap and i love reggae, but I cannot stand the constant bombardment of R'n'B / Urban style BS. If you had a Black act that was performing Rock music, then I would probably relate to them more. After all this is supposed to be The X Factor, which means that any style of singer from any ethnic background has the possibility of winning it. If the competition was based around the MOBO's, then I probably wouldn't watch it regardless of the skin colour of the acts as it would be a style of music that I wouldn't support, with exception of the odd Rap / Reggae act.
Comments
Well everyone is totally entitled to their own opinions & have different likes & dislikes which is great.
Kelly is brilliant... But i think the sales figures of Beyonces songs etc in comparison speak volumes. Kelly will always be in Queen Bs shadow 😎
I think if you read back you'll find your missing part of the story by saying that. But it is a fair point.
Alexandra and Leona are two of the best singers to grace the competition which explains a lot.
Alexandra, Little Mix and Hannah are the only artists I can remember voting for more than once.
The weakness of Alexandra's follow up career is a mystery to me. There is this notion that she is not a likeable person. And I don't know where that comes from. Alexandra was possibly the best singer, the prettiest, the sexiest, the funniest female and a pretty decent dancer too. All the ingredients that actually should have made her if not a global superstar at least a major pop star. But where is she now?
Given the percentage of people in this country who would not describe their ethnic origin as white is about 13%, and more than 13% of the finalists in X Factor are "non-white"; and further, that the the acts voted out in weeks 1 and 2 are nearly always white, the statement that the show or the voting public are subconsciously racist is simply wrong!
Well personally I didn't like Hannah because Sob Story, same as I didn't like (white, male) Joseph because Sob Story (though how they made 'I have a son!' into a sob story is beyond me). I don't think I'm the only one, people seem to react really badly to the sob stories now, thankfully. A lot of people seemed to find Joseph physically attractive (ewww) but were turned right off by the sob story. I don't think Hannah's looks worked against her nearly as much as the miserable face early on, and then what seemed like a false Cheerful Hannah that appeared later, once they realised that the sob story wasn't working.
Actually it is the fact that people are not comfortable with addressing issues of racism and colourism that might be a better indicator of implicit racism.
WHAT is fact?
WHO are the "people" you are referring to?
HOW are they uncomfortable?
HOW is not voting for Hannah "implicit racism"?
Personally I rarely vote on the X Factor. But if I did vote regularly, I would not have voted for Hannah, because IMHO she comes across as a dour moody cow, had no star quality and these issues prevented me from appreciating her excellent, tho not outstanding, vocals.
The fact that you appear to be implying that everyone who votes on the show is racist, is, ironically, the most racist attitude I've seen on this thread!
The concept of racism relates to cultural and social hegemony as much as it does to colour of skin which is why all your comments are quite naive in both their expression and judgement.
We better start checking family trees so we can come up with the ideal mix then! They can have a winner's song of Melting Pot by Blue Mink!
However, in Alexandra's year the public - and media - were against Rachel Hylton. If Rachel wasn't there would Alex of been the one the public were against? Probably. But will we ever know? Nope.
The nature versus nurture debate. Could be?
I seem to remember that Alexandra had to give standout performances each week just to stay in the competition. Even in Leona's time praise was like hard to come by. Sharon used to say things like your vocals are wonderful but...... and Louis looked like he was hating every minute. Leona probably gave 4 or 5 almost iconic performances the best of which, Summertime, Louis gave the highest praise grudgingly saying it was probably the best performance of the night.
I actually think that racial attitudes have improved radically in the UK over the last 10 years which I think is a reflection of the younger generations not having the inbuilt hang ups earlier ones had. This is also reflected in the cosmopolitan collection of artistes in the UK and the the across the board appreciation of those musicians.
I would consider however that in the older generations of X factor voters there may still be a hangover from earlier times. Not the outright racist attitudes of their youth but only a grudging acceptance that earlier attitudes were wrong and not able to fully embrace what they may still see as alien cultures.
LOL, well yeah get rid of everyone's recessive genes - specially the white folks'!
I think Oprah Winfrey said something like we'd only get rid of racism after all the old folks have died - which sort of goes in line with what you're saying there.
Can you please explain your theory? I find your post to be a bit insensitive and inflammatory, although I am sure it was not meant that way.
so why are rough copy still in the competition then ?
What age do you consider to be 'older generations'? I'm in my 40's and people my age grew up with artists like Stevie Wonder, George Benson and Luther Vandross being the mainstream chart acts. In the 70's and 80's, soul and dance music was massive and most of the people into those genres were white kids, who are now todays middle aged so it's probably not accurate to say that it's the last 10 years where the young have changed attitudes.
Music has been crossing racial divides and bringing people from different backgrounds together for decades.
Now that's the case, but back in the day, they were roughly in the same boat in Destiny's Child.
Beyonce's success has a lot to do with skin colour, like when would Kelly be on an ad for Loreal lol.
Music. She fell victim to the thing all black acts do. You have to peddle both worlds, something her white contemporaries never really have to do. If you're too pop, most black audiences will not pay much attention. I became a huge fan because for me, she was one of the only contestants on XF to be able to actually have a serious career afterwards. She literally was stunning. Her debut was on point, and was the example of what I meant by serious career. Her 2nd album wrecked the whole thing (But that's a BIG issue to talk about haha). She has a lot of confidence, which wasn't apparent on the show in her interviews. She cried a heck of a lot. It's the whole ''wallflower'' theory which is common here, but not so much in the US.
So naïve that you cannot answer any of the questions I raised?