More news on the future of non BBC One/BBC Two HD content appearing on iPlayer.
"First of all, a few of you (@3, @4, @8, @12, @14) wrote about the scope to offer HD programmes on BBC iPlayer. I've confirmed with my iPlayer colleagues that the position is as follows. By the end of this year we hope that all programmes produced in HD will be available in HD on iPlayer, regardless of whether they have been broadcast on an HD channel. In the meantime, HD content on iPlayer has to have been broadcast on an HD channel, or else have been selected to be put through a separate process. There’s a limit to the number of hours of programming per week that can go through that process, but over the coming months we will be selecting those programmes carefully to try to minimise disappointment. "
The fact that the iPlayer team cannot offer Non broadcast HD content till the end of the year makes me feel they haven't thought everything through. It should of been ready for when the switch happened, not 8 months after.
Delivering Quality First my arse.
I agree 100%. I watch Iplayer through my TV and it pisses me off when something's in SD only, not only because it's not in HD but because there's a slight anamorphic-style squeeze on the SD image. No idea why it does this but it's not there for HD programmes, and I haven't adjusted anything on my TV to cause this.
The fact that the iPlayer team cannot offer Non broadcast HD content till the end of the year makes me feel they haven't thought everything through. It should of been ready for when the switch happened, not 8 months after.
Delivering Quality First my arse.
Ever considered that, as possibly a small team, they might have been busy working on other things as well, and rather than delay the inevitable move to BBC Two HD (especially given the obvious fact that more & more BBC Two content was already appearing on BBC HD at the expense of other HD content) it was felt that it would be better to fully-convert to BBC Two HD (especially in view of the other DQF changes that were scheduled to take place).
I could be wrong as I don't work for the BBC and thus have no inside knowledge, but that might be a sensible explanation given the circumstances.
Like Mossy I do not know - But let us look at what making all BBC Material available on I Player in HD means ..
At the moment just some of the BBC output - according to business rules which are if it is being transmitted HD it should be on Iplayer in HD .... so a workflow is set up which takes the material (as an exception to the normal SD flow) and codes and wraps it for iplayer.
But what is being required is to make it a second normal work flow .... actually it is probably more likely to create a new single workflow which encodes all material in multiple standards and wrappers ..... and also will be able to handle non broadcast material - either like the BBC Three initiative and interactive red button - or for BBC Store( Barcelona)..... as it grows.
So this is a major change - and change takes time ....... partically if you need the right good people (just think of DSO)
Remember that the BBC was originating regional programs in 4*3 PAL in 2002 (although you just saw a 16*9 slice) and that it still has PAL contribution circuits (but File transfer is being used and Scotland Wales and Some England used JPEG2K over IP five years ago )
After all the BBC has not got the means of emitting HD for every service ...
Remember that the BBC was originating regional programs in 4*3 PAL in 2002 (although you just saw a 16*9 slice) and that it still has PAL contribution circuits (but File transfer is being used and Scotland Wales and Some England used JPEG2K over IP five years ago )
After all the BBC has not got the means of emitting HD for every service ...
That said would it not be better to sort out the channel output so its HD capable then when all channel outputs are then sort out all the new source material to upgrade it to HD bit by bit and in the mean time upscale anything still in sd. Its currently so annoying to have the stupid 'regional output is not available in YOUR region'! card come up its just a shame they cant put an sd feed on it then we would at least have a regional HD channel just not regional content in HD. I know that wouldnt solve the iplayer content which I understand is what people are really wanting for BBC 3/4, which could get overnight repeats on BBC2 which they are looking into I belive: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/blogaboutthebbc/posts/BBC-Two-HD?postId=115709791#comment_115709791
But until SD is turned off - have the BBC One regions even upscaled requires another 4 DSAT transponders (in addition to the 6 currently used) and about another 10 Plus resilience HD DTT coders and Stat muxes for 5 channels and 16 HD DSAT coding chains ..... Ie a lot of cost ..... even before you work out how to signal and switch the region SD to the HD Chain....
dual illumination costs a lot ... !!!!!
As far as BBC3/4 - DQF will means that more 3/4/Kids will be seen though channel pairing
- but the BBC Executive has outlined their plans for more/all HD on DSAT and DTT....
but it costs money (but a lot less than BBC one Regions HD .... ) and may not be universal
so it needs propositions to be made to the BBC Trust for PVT and MIA to be done ...
But until SD is turned off - have the BBC One regions even upscaled requires another 4 DSAT transponders (in addition to the 6 currently used) and about another 10 Plus resilience HD DTT coders and Stat muxes for 5 channels and 16 HD DSAT coding chains ..... Ie a lot of cost ..... even before you work out how to signal and switch the region SD to the HD Chain....
dual illumination costs a lot ... !!!!!
As far as BBC3/4 - DQF will means that more 3/4/Kids will be seen though channel pairing
- but the BBC Executive has outlined their plans for more/all HD on DSAT and DTT....
but it costs money (but a lot less than BBC one Regions HD .... ) and may not be universal
so it needs propositions to be made to the BBC Trust for PVT and MIA to be done ...
its a shame they cant turn off the sd bbc1/2 on Dsat and just launch the HD BBC1 regions on freeview and Dsat and say if you want SD BBC1/2 you have to get it on freeview but I suppose that wouldnt be popular and would still cost a lot of money.
I'm just delighted that I cancelled my HD subscription on Sky 4 weeks ago, as it means BBC2 HD (and the other 'terrestrial' HD channels) will soon pop up near the top of the Sky HD section, where it should be anyway IMO. I'm fed up with having to scroll down page after page in the main list or HD list on the Sky EPG, to find BBC1 HD, BBC(2)HD etc.
It's a strange World when you have to cancel your HD subscription to get easier access to HD versions of the most popular channels! I rarely watch subscription HD channels apart from Premiership footy, which I can live with in SD, and the saving will nearly pay for my TV licence!
its a shame they cant turn off the sd bbc1/2 on Dsat and just launch the HD BBC1 regions on freeview and Dsat and say if you want SD BBC1/2 you have to get it on freeview but I suppose that wouldnt be popular and would still cost a lot of money.
Too right - it would indeed be very unpopular, especially amongst those who have bought into Freesat (SD only)and who cannot get a reliable Freeview signal.
I would imagine that turning off SD on one platform would be contrary to its obligations, and would never be passed by the BBC Trust anyway
If it is going to take months to get BBC 3/4 HD material onto i player and they announced ages ago that BBC 2 HD was replacing BBC HD why did they not prepare earlier?
Or delay BBC 2 HD launch until they could.
I simply do not get why it is better to fail to show in HD anywhere material available in HD just to simulcast BBC 2 in HD? What was wrong with BBC HD until they were actually capable of showing things in HD somewhere?
Now, I imagine, something like series 3 of Borgen will be relegated to SD only as I cannot imagine them putting it on BBC 2 with subtitles.
And, of course, we will see more HD shows being bought in SD (like Parks and Recreation??) if there is no HD home for it why pay extra?
If it is going to take months to get BBC 3/4 HD material onto i player and they announced ages ago that BBC 2 HD was replacing BBC HD why did they not prepare earlier?
Or delay BBC 2 HD launch until they could.
I simply do not get why it is better to fail to show in HD anywhere material available in HD just to simulcast BBC 2 in HD? What was wrong with BBC HD until they were actually capable of showing things in HD somewhere?
See post #53 from myself (a guess from me as I have no connection with the BBC in any form or capacity), and an even more reasonable explanation by technologist in post #54
Now, I imagine, something like series 3 of Borgen will be relegated to SD only as I cannot imagine them putting it on BBC 2 with subtitles.
Unless it's one of the programmes that also gets shown on BBC Two HD as suggested earlier.
And, of course, we will see more HD shows being bought in SD (like Parks and Recreation??) if there is no HD home for it why pay extra?
There might be a HD repeat now, there might be a repeat later on. Why not buy the HD rights (seeing as the BBC will also be creating their own content in HD regardless).
This is regression,not progress, by the BBC.
So one of your ideas of progression is to keep BBC HD, which to all intents & purposes was already taking on the mantle of BBC Two HD from 4pm onwards, with less and less non-BBC Two programming appearing (and the complaints when non-BBC Two HD programming was not being simulcast or even shown).
Meanwhile delay what can actually be launched until other things can be sorted to your satisfaction, leaving viewers with a part-time HD channel that could only show programming after 4pm (and thereby cutting down the amount of BBC Three/Four HD programming that might/could be shown)
What ever will happen to other BBC shows which were filmed in HD (e.g, CBBC shows such as The Dumping Ground, other dramas).
Nothing will "happen" to them, they will just be HD content that might get a repeat airing on one the the BBC's existing HD channels, or might get shown on Cbeebies HD/CBBC HD/BBC Three HD or BBC Four HD if and when those channels are launched in the future.
It makes sense to film in HD, if only for repeat, archival or overseas sales purposes.
Nothing will "happen" to them, they will just be HD content that might get a repeat airing on one the the BBC's existing HD channels, or might get shown on Cbeebies HD/CBBC HD/BBC Three HD or BBC Four HD if and when those channels are launched in the future.
It makes sense to film in HD, if only for repeat, archival or overseas sales purposes.
Overseas sales purposes?
I'm pretty sure they can't sell it in HD unless it has aired in the UK in HD, after all, we have paid for it.
I'm pretty sure they can't sell it in HD unless it has aired in the UK in HD, after all, we have paid for it.
You might be correct.
We have certainly paid for the production of the content. And I know that there is/was a rule that said that HD content could not appear on iPlayer unless it had already been broadcast in HD (but that rule is to be relaxed).
However, it still makes sense for overseas sales if that content is likely to be shown on a HD channel at some point. The BBC can then sell the HD content overseas, but they cannot revisit the content to produce it again in HD (if you see what I mean)
What ever will happen to other BBC shows which were filmed in HD (e.g, CBBC shows such as The Dumping Ground, other dramas).
What is bizarre is that the BBC is so constrained by the concept of platform neutrality to limit the availabity of its HD content to the capacity of DTT. All the BBC's channels should be available in HD on D-SAT and D-Cable. It really makes little sense for BBC3, 4 and the children's channels not to be available in HD for households that want to have FreeSat, or subscribe, to a platform.
What is bizarre is that the BBC is so constrained by the concept of platform neutrality to limit the availabity of its HD content to the capacity of DTT. All the BBC's channels should be available in HD on D-SAT and D-Cable. It really makes little sense for BBC3, 4 and the children's channels not to be available in HD for households that want to have FreeSat, or subscribe, to a platform.
Even if cost is an issue (as set out previously)?
And I gather there is much more to supporting an additional HD channel or two than simply transponder space! See earlier post from technologist - which contains this info (written about the many BBC one HD regions but relevant to additional channels too):
But until SD is turned off - have the BBC One regions even upscaled requires another 4 DSAT transponders (in addition to the 6 currently used) and about another 10 Plus resilience HD DTT coders and Stat muxes for 5 channels and 16 HD DSAT coding chains ..... Ie a lot of cost ..... even before you work out how to signal and switch the region SD to the HD Chain....
dual illumination costs a lot ... !!!!!
However, it still makes sense for overseas sales if that content is likely to be shown on a HD channel at some point. The BBC can then sell the HD content overseas, but they cannot revisit the content to produce it again in HD (if you see what I mean)
All BBC programmes have been delivered in HD ( except news sport until (N)BH / Salford) since April 2011 - and actually the vast majority since about November 2010... And over 50% from April 2010 ... Whether or not for an HD channel.
Although BBC W was a bit slow on seeing the world market outside the USA .... Much high end programming was shot HD from about 2008.
And I gather there is much more to supporting an additional HD channel or two than simply transponder space! See earlier post from technologist - which contains this info (written about the many BBC one HD regions but relevant to additional channels too):
There's not really. Putting BBC4 and BBC3 on D-SAT and cable on HD is trivial compared to doing the same on DTT. Trivial - relative, yes but still in the order of bringing forward some refresh, configuring some statmux nd finding some space. The latter is of course the challenge, the rest is willpower driven relatively low capital project stuff. Putting 3 and 4 onto cable, given the availability of a SDI feed of the things anywhere within 30 miles of Langley is really Virgin's problem, not the BBC's.
D-Sat is more of an issue, but even so not that much. If FreeSat were not part of the requirement, then we all realise that BSkyB would jump at the opportunity of having 3/4 available as a captive on satellite, even if it were FTV.
Its actually really frustrating that content created by licence payers in HD cannot be seen by them.
BBC channels are clearly not allowed behind a paywall like Sky.
That doesn't mean that availability should always be constrained by the limitations of the DTT platform. There is no restriction to BBC content being FTV, particularly as the SD FTA path would remain available.
Actually I believe that 3 and 4 should be on FreeSat, sooner rather than later, even if its the best part of a decade before DTT catches up. (Actually, we know it will be sooner than that).
If it is going to take months to get BBC 3/4 HD material onto i player and they announced ages ago that BBC 2 HD was replacing BBC HD why did they not prepare earlier?
I fully agree with this. It smacks of poor organisation. The BBC is a massive company. They should've got their arses in gear.
I simply do not get why it is better to fail to show in HD anywhere material available in HD just to simulcast BBC 2 in HD? What was wrong with BBC HD until they were actually capable of showing things in HD somewhere?
Well, just look at the marketing blimps who turn up on Points of View to profess why they think it's so important to stick huge DOGs onscreen and/or crunch the credits so the continuity announcer can waffle all over them and pretend to be funny. It's clear the people who make the decisions are thick as pigshit and completely out of touch with what the viewers want.
Now, I imagine, something like series 3 of Borgen will be relegated to SD only as I cannot imagine them putting it on BBC 2 with subtitles.
I've only got into this recently and crammed both series on Blu-ray in 4 weeks, but for that to be in SD is rather unthinkable.
Comments
I agree 100%. I watch Iplayer through my TV and it pisses me off when something's in SD only, not only because it's not in HD but because there's a slight anamorphic-style squeeze on the SD image. No idea why it does this but it's not there for HD programmes, and I haven't adjusted anything on my TV to cause this.
Ever considered that, as possibly a small team, they might have been busy working on other things as well, and rather than delay the inevitable move to BBC Two HD (especially given the obvious fact that more & more BBC Two content was already appearing on BBC HD at the expense of other HD content) it was felt that it would be better to fully-convert to BBC Two HD (especially in view of the other DQF changes that were scheduled to take place).
I could be wrong as I don't work for the BBC and thus have no inside knowledge, but that might be a sensible explanation given the circumstances.
At the moment just some of the BBC output - according to business rules which are if it is being transmitted HD it should be on Iplayer in HD .... so a workflow is set up which takes the material (as an exception to the normal SD flow) and codes and wraps it for iplayer.
But what is being required is to make it a second normal work flow .... actually it is probably more likely to create a new single workflow which encodes all material in multiple standards and wrappers ..... and also will be able to handle non broadcast material - either like the BBC Three initiative and interactive red button - or for BBC Store( Barcelona)..... as it grows.
So this is a major change - and change takes time ....... partically if you need the right good people (just think of DSO)
Remember that the BBC was originating regional programs in 4*3 PAL in 2002 (although you just saw a 16*9 slice) and that it still has PAL contribution circuits (but File transfer is being used and Scotland Wales and Some England used JPEG2K over IP five years ago )
After all the BBC has not got the means of emitting HD for every service ...
That said would it not be better to sort out the channel output so its HD capable then when all channel outputs are then sort out all the new source material to upgrade it to HD bit by bit and in the mean time upscale anything still in sd. Its currently so annoying to have the stupid 'regional output is not available in YOUR region'! card come up its just a shame they cant put an sd feed on it then we would at least have a regional HD channel just not regional content in HD. I know that wouldnt solve the iplayer content which I understand is what people are really wanting for BBC 3/4, which could get overnight repeats on BBC2 which they are looking into I belive: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/blogaboutthebbc/posts/BBC-Two-HD?postId=115709791#comment_115709791
dual illumination costs a lot ... !!!!!
As far as BBC3/4 - DQF will means that more 3/4/Kids will be seen though channel pairing
- but the BBC Executive has outlined their plans for more/all HD on DSAT and DTT....
but it costs money (but a lot less than BBC one Regions HD .... ) and may not be universal
so it needs propositions to be made to the BBC Trust for PVT and MIA to be done ...
its a shame they cant turn off the sd bbc1/2 on Dsat and just launch the HD BBC1 regions on freeview and Dsat and say if you want SD BBC1/2 you have to get it on freeview but I suppose that wouldnt be popular and would still cost a lot of money.
It's a strange World when you have to cancel your HD subscription to get easier access to HD versions of the most popular channels! I rarely watch subscription HD channels apart from Premiership footy, which I can live with in SD, and the saving will nearly pay for my TV licence!
Too right - it would indeed be very unpopular, especially amongst those who have bought into Freesat (SD only)and who cannot get a reliable Freeview signal.
I would imagine that turning off SD on one platform would be contrary to its obligations, and would never be passed by the BBC Trust anyway
Or delay BBC 2 HD launch until they could.
I simply do not get why it is better to fail to show in HD anywhere material available in HD just to simulcast BBC 2 in HD? What was wrong with BBC HD until they were actually capable of showing things in HD somewhere?
Now, I imagine, something like series 3 of Borgen will be relegated to SD only as I cannot imagine them putting it on BBC 2 with subtitles.
And, of course, we will see more HD shows being bought in SD (like Parks and Recreation??) if there is no HD home for it why pay extra?
This is regression,not progress, by the BBC.
Nothing will "happen" to them, they will just be HD content that might get a repeat airing on one the the BBC's existing HD channels, or might get shown on Cbeebies HD/CBBC HD/BBC Three HD or BBC Four HD if and when those channels are launched in the future.
It makes sense to film in HD, if only for repeat, archival or overseas sales purposes.
but I doubt any film has been used in the production of the shows you are discussing;)
I'll be off now!
Overseas sales purposes?
I'm pretty sure they can't sell it in HD unless it has aired in the UK in HD, after all, we have paid for it.
Sorry about the incorrect use of the word " film"
Perhaps it makes sense to produce in HD.
but
who wouldn't be able to sell it to whom in HD?
Loads of kid's stuff is indies these days, isn't it?
We have certainly paid for the production of the content. And I know that there is/was a rule that said that HD content could not appear on iPlayer unless it had already been broadcast in HD (but that rule is to be relaxed).
However, it still makes sense for overseas sales if that content is likely to be shown on a HD channel at some point. The BBC can then sell the HD content overseas, but they cannot revisit the content to produce it again in HD (if you see what I mean)
What is bizarre is that the BBC is so constrained by the concept of platform neutrality to limit the availabity of its HD content to the capacity of DTT. All the BBC's channels should be available in HD on D-SAT and D-Cable. It really makes little sense for BBC3, 4 and the children's channels not to be available in HD for households that want to have FreeSat, or subscribe, to a platform.
Even if cost is an issue (as set out previously)?
And I gather there is much more to supporting an additional HD channel or two than simply transponder space! See earlier post from technologist - which contains this info (written about the many BBC one HD regions but relevant to additional channels too):
All BBC programmes have been delivered in HD ( except news sport until (N)BH / Salford) since April 2011 - and actually the vast majority since about November 2010... And over 50% from April 2010 ... Whether or not for an HD channel.
Although BBC W was a bit slow on seeing the world market outside the USA .... Much high end programming was shot HD from about 2008.
There's not really. Putting BBC4 and BBC3 on D-SAT and cable on HD is trivial compared to doing the same on DTT. Trivial - relative, yes but still in the order of bringing forward some refresh, configuring some statmux nd finding some space. The latter is of course the challenge, the rest is willpower driven relatively low capital project stuff. Putting 3 and 4 onto cable, given the availability of a SDI feed of the things anywhere within 30 miles of Langley is really Virgin's problem, not the BBC's.
D-Sat is more of an issue, but even so not that much. If FreeSat were not part of the requirement, then we all realise that BSkyB would jump at the opportunity of having 3/4 available as a captive on satellite, even if it were FTV.
Its actually really frustrating that content created by licence payers in HD cannot be seen by them.
That doesn't mean that availability should always be constrained by the limitations of the DTT platform. There is no restriction to BBC content being FTV, particularly as the SD FTA path would remain available.
Actually I believe that 3 and 4 should be on FreeSat, sooner rather than later, even if its the best part of a decade before DTT catches up. (Actually, we know it will be sooner than that).
I fully agree with this. It smacks of poor organisation. The BBC is a massive company. They should've got their arses in gear.
Well, just look at the marketing blimps who turn up on Points of View to profess why they think it's so important to stick huge DOGs onscreen and/or crunch the credits so the continuity announcer can waffle all over them and pretend to be funny. It's clear the people who make the decisions are thick as pigshit and completely out of touch with what the viewers want.
I've only got into this recently and crammed both series on Blu-ray in 4 weeks, but for that to be in SD is rather unthinkable.
Fully agreed.