Yeah, but on a contentious issue people, especially MPs, should choose their words with more care.
It was indeed a poor choice of words and, rather than being "appalled" and "offended" or whatever certain people claim to have been when reading his comments, many were secretly delighted. It presented them with a gift-wrapped opportunity to focus on, as was mentioned earlier, the messenger as opposed to the message. I have no problem with the point he was trying to impart, merely the inept way he did it.
It's obvious that's what he meant but the apologists jumped on him because that's what they are hard wired to do.
i'm not an apologist for anyone. if someone had refereed to the Muslims, asians, french, blacks, or any other racial epithet including the Jews, to describe a country with a mixture of races i would have criticised them all the same.
i have no particular stance on the israeli conflict. can you say the same?
why didn't you say 'Jews' instead of 'Israelis' like Mr Ward?
Because you have dismissed the views of anyone criticising Mr ward as apologists. That their views are not a rational analysis of the facts, but formed by a predisposition. I'm accusing you of that.
His choice of language is unfortunate; it can be implied he is indicting all Jews for inflicting atrocities on the Palestinian people. It would be like a politician in the '60s saying he is saddened by the French inflicting atrocities against the Algerians after being liberated from Nazi Germany.
However, this is not why he is being criticized. Opposing Zionism is equated with "racism" in the West today. Israel is a proxy for Anglo-American imperialism and American interests; anyone who dares oppose the biggest imperialist state (along with its puppets) since Nazi Germany is viciously attacked.
His choice of language is unfortunate; it can be implied he is indicting all Jews for inflicting atrocities on the Palestinian people. It would be like a politician in the '60s saying he is saddened by the French inflicting atrocities against the Algerians after being liberated from Nazi Germany.
However, this is not why he is being criticized. Opposing Zionism is equated with "racism" in the West today. Israel is a proxy for Anglo-American imperialism and American interests; anyone who dares oppose the biggest imperialist state (along with its puppets) since Nazi Germany is viciously attacked.
That's not why I'm criticising him. He chose stupid words and then given the opportunity to clarify he chose double speak, which makes me believe his choice may have been deliberate.
And you are clearly making the mistake of not recognising the difference between a religion and a nation.
P.S. Mind the language.
As he emphased the word 'EXACTLY' I'd say that FM isn't making any mistake and is talking about Jews. Unlike the MP who has said it wasn't what he meant.
As he emphased the word 'EXACTLY' I'd say that FM isn't making any mistake and is talking about Jews. Unlike the MP who has said it wasn't what he meant.
He isn't making an actual equation of what happened in the holocaust with the persecution of Palestinians.
I support what he posted. And the timing be damned - it's the only time anyone will take any notice (this being two days before Holocaust Memorial Day). Should Israel be allowed to treat people the way it does? No. We are free to say that at any time we please. Or we should be - if anyone does express their disgust with the behaviour of the Israeli parliament and military they are branded as sick anti-Semites.
Also, Israel is explicitly a Jewish state: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Jewish_and_Democratic_State. Having said that, "the Jews" and "Israel" are not interchangeable entities, and he was lacking a bit of finesse here, but it's not as offensive as some of the commentators in the BBC article made out (especially those working in the Israel PR industry).
I'm not really surprised he has been admonished. Criticising Israel is just as guaranteed to cause outrage and cries of antisemitism as uttering something uncomplimentary about Muslims will provoke accusations of Islamophobia. We, as a nation, have become totally cowed into silence where Israel and Islam are concerned.
Imo America is strongly influenced in its foreign policies affecting Israel, because of a powerful and wealthy Jewish lobby. American Administrations have always been afraid to offend Israel, and, of course, Israel knows this, and that they can literally get away with murder, and nobody will say a word against them. Unfortunately, we are so tied to Americas coat-tails, deluding ourselves that there is a Special Relationship between our two countries, that we tend to follow their lead.
Actually, this special relationship may indeed be genuine as far as we British are concerned because our ethnicity has not changed significantly since the early English settlers sailed in the Mayflower, which means we may still have an emotional bond with them, whereas most people in America today have no blood ties with us and, therefore, little likelyhood of affection.
About 5 times as many Syrians have been killed in 2 years as Israelis/Palestinians since 1948.
Yet the sickening, vile, Israel-obsessed Europeans and especially the left wing flap their gums endlessly against Israel. Every human rights organisation consumed with spending an inordinate amount of time on Israel.
The UN's human rights council spending some 70% of their time on Israel.
The most disgusting, sinister, insidious anti-semitism masquerading as "concern for palestinians".
And he timed it for Holocaust memorial day too.
The Lib Dems have a history of deep anti-semitism with that awful Jenny Tonge.
The UK can now join the disgusting band of anti-semites in the rest of Europe. All hand-wringing in unison to placate the Islamic monster within.
About 5 times as many Syrians have been killed in 2 years as Israelis/Palestinians since 1948.
Yet the sickening, vile, Israel-obsessed Europeans and especially the left wing flap their gums endlessly against Israel. Every human rights organisation consumed with spending an inordinate amount of time on Israel.
The UN's human rights council spending some 70% of their time on Israel.
The most disgusting, sinister, insidious anti-semitism masquerading as "concern for palestinians".
And he timed it for Holocaust memorial day too.
The Lib Dems have a history of deep anti-semitism with that awful Jenny Tonge.
The UK can now join the disgusting band of anti-semites in the rest of Europe. All hand-wringing in unison to placate the Islamic monster within.
The only Anti-Semites are these European colonists. Get it right if you're gonna have a rant.
About 5 times as many Syrians have been killed in 2 years as Israelis/Palestinians since 1948.
Yet the sickening, vile, Israel-obsessed Europeans and especially the left wing flap their gums endlessly against Israel. Every human rights organisation consumed with spending an inordinate amount of time on Israel.
The UN's human rights council spending some 70% of their time on Israel.
The most disgusting, sinister, insidious anti-semitism masquerading as "concern for palestinians".
And he timed it for Holocaust memorial day too.
The Lib Dems have a history of deep anti-semitism with that awful Jenny Tonge.
The UK can now join the disgusting band of anti-semites in the rest of Europe. All hand-wringing in unison to placate the Islamic monster within.
Comments
Yeah, but on a contentious issue people, especially MPs, should choose their words with more care.
It was indeed a poor choice of words and, rather than being "appalled" and "offended" or whatever certain people claim to have been when reading his comments, many were secretly delighted. It presented them with a gift-wrapped opportunity to focus on, as was mentioned earlier, the messenger as opposed to the message. I have no problem with the point he was trying to impart, merely the inept way he did it.
i'm not an apologist for anyone. if someone had refereed to the Muslims, asians, french, blacks, or any other racial epithet including the Jews, to describe a country with a mixture of races i would have criticised them all the same.
i have no particular stance on the israeli conflict. can you say the same?
why didn't you say 'Jews' instead of 'Israelis' like Mr Ward?
Because that would be racist I guess.
Because you have dismissed the views of anyone criticising Mr ward as apologists. That their views are not a rational analysis of the facts, but formed by a predisposition. I'm accusing you of that.
I thought that was pretty clear?
And I suspect that this is what the "summons" (I read it as though he had a court summons) was to for.
Yeah summoned by the party whips. How on earth that means 'we' have to watch what we say is beyond me.:D
However, this is not why he is being criticized. Opposing Zionism is equated with "racism" in the West today. Israel is a proxy for Anglo-American imperialism and American interests; anyone who dares oppose the biggest imperialist state (along with its puppets) since Nazi Germany is viciously attacked.
what he said is EXACTLY what is happening!
sick of making these people out to be something special
And you are clearly making the mistake of not recognising the difference between a religion and a nation.
P.S. Mind the language.
As he emphased the word 'EXACTLY' I'd say that FM isn't making any mistake and is talking about Jews. Unlike the MP who has said it wasn't what he meant.
I know, I was just being generous.
I'm not really surprised he has been admonished. Criticising Israel is just as guaranteed to cause outrage and cries of antisemitism as uttering something uncomplimentary about Muslims will provoke accusations of Islamophobia. We, as a nation, have become totally cowed into silence where Israel and Islam are concerned.
Imo America is strongly influenced in its foreign policies affecting Israel, because of a powerful and wealthy Jewish lobby. American Administrations have always been afraid to offend Israel, and, of course, Israel knows this, and that they can literally get away with murder, and nobody will say a word against them. Unfortunately, we are so tied to Americas coat-tails, deluding ourselves that there is a Special Relationship between our two countries, that we tend to follow their lead.
Actually, this special relationship may indeed be genuine as far as we British are concerned because our ethnicity has not changed significantly since the early English settlers sailed in the Mayflower, which means we may still have an emotional bond with them, whereas most people in America today have no blood ties with us and, therefore, little likelyhood of affection.
Yet the sickening, vile, Israel-obsessed Europeans and especially the left wing flap their gums endlessly against Israel. Every human rights organisation consumed with spending an inordinate amount of time on Israel.
The UN's human rights council spending some 70% of their time on Israel.
The most disgusting, sinister, insidious anti-semitism masquerading as "concern for palestinians".
And he timed it for Holocaust memorial day too.
The Lib Dems have a history of deep anti-semitism with that awful Jenny Tonge.
The UK can now join the disgusting band of anti-semites in the rest of Europe. All hand-wringing in unison to placate the Islamic monster within.
The only Anti-Semites are these European colonists. Get it right if you're gonna have a rant.
I'd love to hear you clarify who the people you refer to by 'these people' are?
Is this Melanie Phillips?
More on this story today. Every time the guy speaks he says something about the Jews.
Well it's Bradford east. You wonder if it's deliberate.