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5 reasons to either stay or leave Europe !
Dannyboy1978uk
Posts: 337 Forum Member
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With so many reasons to either stay IN or OUT of Europe I was wondering if you educated lot could post 5 of your best reasons to either stay in or leave the European union!
Bullet points please and hopfully we will get a fair account of the pro's and cons.
1. Lost control of borders since joining Europe
2. 16.4 b a year to Europe, one of highest contributors!
3. So we can scrap the human rights law
4. Bring back law making to Westminster
5. Able to give benifits only to British people
Bullet points please and hopfully we will get a fair account of the pro's and cons.
1. Lost control of borders since joining Europe
2. 16.4 b a year to Europe, one of highest contributors!
3. So we can scrap the human rights law
4. Bring back law making to Westminster
5. Able to give benifits only to British people
0
Comments
-We can get rid of the CAP
-We can have controls over our waters and fishing industry
-Stop all free movement
-Remove costly business laws and red tape
More inaccurate information from PrestonAl what a surprise
_ we have totally lost control of ours borders get real we have been flooded by immigrants
-The EU costs £53 million a day which is over £20 billion, take away the rebate it is still over 15 billion
-Human rights do not come directly from the EU but all EU states must accept the ECHR
- Westminster makes law but can be overruled by the EU and all laws have to conform to EU law
- If we left the EU we would be able to pass laws that say only British people can claim benefits, fact.
- we are not already, the EU creates the majority of ours laws and except for the EU Parliament no one is elected
- yes we will have to pay OUR farmers not French or Eastern European ones and the cost of food will go down
-you may like being able to freely move but immigration is a serious problem the majority of British people want to stop
Misinformation of the greatest quality.
"flooded"? Real nice accurate figure there.
For everyone else who wants the truth (unlike the above), check out this Q&A about the UK and the EU and law: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8160808.stm
the trouble is there is no figure for 2014 immigration because the government is not willing (and probably has no clue) as to how many more immigrants will come. The papers estimated 50,000 however with the Polish only 14,000 was estimated
I have a law degree I know how the law works read costa v enel it confirms the EU is supreme and can overrule national law
Of course it's misinformation, it's the only way the out of eu type of people can argue. You just have to look at the figures they forever produce. £50 billion or when challenged £20 billion, when it is actually closer to £5billion (after the rebate and the money that comes back).
If they didn't lie, then their argument would, while still valid, look very weak as their figures wouldn't be extreme.
No, our laws cannot be overruled. You would know that if you have a law degree. We allow for the EU to create laws that we follow. Our obligation ends when we say so.
Where did you get your law degree from, the whole point of the EU is to harmonize laws or create common standards so it has to have the ability to overrule national governments and it does. Read Costs v Enel! It was confirmed in the case the treaty law overrides all national law and that national law must conform with EU law
'it follows from all these observations that the law stemming from the treaty, an independent source of law, could not, because of its special and original nature, be overridden by domestic legal provisions, however framed, without being deprived of its character as community law and without the legal basis of the community itself being called into 'question'.
Asking my practising friend who practices European law. She states if we don't want to follow EU law, we can say no. Simple as that. the consequences are we can be kicked out of the EU.
I would have thought you would have known that being a lawyer. You are practising it right?
1 Because the EU is for capitalism, not the working class
It was set up to enforce “free” markets – the free movement of capital, labour and goods – to provide greater and greater profits while suppressing wages.
2 Because the EU wants to break up Britain
The EU exists to destroy national sovereignty. It was created to sweep away the concept of nation. Nations are real. The EU drive is to dismember nations – divide and rule to leave the field to finance capital.
3 Because the EU is a danger to peace
It is seeking to create a European Army, while inciting reaction and war on behalf of US capitalism, for example now with Syria and Iran. The call for a European state echoes Germany’s World War 2 aims.
4 Because the EU is a failure – and an expensive failure
It has created only chaos and destruction, while its grand plan founders on the resistance of awkward national electorates. In 2010 our net contribution to the EU was £9.2 billion. We can use this money for ourselves.
5 Because we can only survive and prosper outside the EU
EU trade represents just 20 per cent of global trade – we can trade with the other 80 per cent, and still trade with the EU outside it, as do Norway and Switzerland. They talk about “little Englanders”, but in truth the “little Europeans” are perverting and narrowing Britain’s trade and industry.
6 Because the idea of a “European people” is a lie
There is no such thing as the people of Europe. Each nation has its own people and its own working class with its own interests to assert.
7 Because the EU is a capitalist prison
The EU shackles its inmates with 30,000 Directives and Regulations intended to govern every aspect of our lives – imposing their laws, undermining our liberties, enforcing privatisation of public services.
8 Because the EU is using the euro crisis to gain more power
The euro was intended to be the chain to bind the prisoners in perpetuity. With the euro falling apart, the bureaucrats are out of control. The EU ensures banks pocket their huge profits while workers bail out the losses incurred by their disastrous speculation.
9 Because inside the EU we cannot control our own borders
The EU promotes the movement of vast numbers of people in search of work. Immigration and emigration are two sides of the same problem as migration depletes some countries of skills while undermining pay in others. They intend only unemployment and rootlessness for us as we move from country to country.
10 Because Britain must focus on its own problems
We can make what we need, feed ourselves, control our territorial waters, trade with the world, be a sovereign nation. They say global capitalism can’t be resisted – but look at developments in Latin America. Like Cuba we must assert workers’ nationalism as the true basis for internationalism. We only have to decide to do it.
Truth? It is opinion, it may be informed opinion but there are many antis who also hold informed opinion.
UK farmers will still need a subdisy from the UK taxpayer. Just as they did before we joined the EU.
We may need immigration controls with Ireland. Otherwise, people could fly from (say) Eastern Europe direct to Dublin, then cross via Northern Ireland into the rest of the UK.
Are you kidding me!! That is one of your top 5 reasons to stay in Europe!!
If you don't mind me asking, are you a lawyer? Because a law degree doesn't impress me very much by itself.
Just because something "could" happen, that doesn't mean it will.
law academic, and I have 3 different degrees how many do you have
I believe it's important to offer readers of this thread (and on this forum as a whole). an alternative to the bias of some posters. It doesn't appear you have done similar. It is a journey towards truth if you read various opinions and views.
The one sided aspect of some on this thread is not the truth. And I'd hope you'd agree with that.
Come on guys give me some clear reasons to stay in Europe.
Three degrees ?
Take Good Care of Yourself was one of my favourites
http://www.thethreedegrees.com/
They still look good, don't they ?
Of course I agree, it was the use of the word 'truth' that I found peculiar. My only comment so far as I recall was to query your use of that word in the context of someone's opinion, albeit a well informed opinion, of the EU.
I am but a layman in terms of the law. I've seen enough of your posts to not want to consider you for advice on law. You almost seem to be showing off, boasting about the number of degrees you have. Again, it doesn't make me think your views on the law and on the EU are views I want to consider for myself.
Also as you don't appear to be employed in the law, and knowing a few people who have degrees but don't have jobs (as in at all, and employed outside of law related employment), I'm not sure you are in a higher position to tell any of us the rights and wrongs of the law with any accredited veracity.
So this is useful information for other posters to see when it comes to reading threads like this. You can read what an anonymous person on the internet wants you to selectively see, or you can research for yourself and find out other views (which in my view have more reliability and accuracy and don't give out misinformation).
These are ones off the top of my head.
If you really had law degrees you should understand the concept of evidence.
So how come you don't provide evidence to back up your ludicrous anti EU "stories"?
To pick one of your false claims at random:
"-Human rights do not come directly from the EU but all EU states must accept the ECHR"
This is not true, there is no EU treaty that requires that member states themselves must accept the ECHR.
The EU treaty agreements on the ECHR merely state that the EU bodies and and EU directives must comply with the ECHR.