I used to manage a nightclub. During my career, I have seen literally thousands of pairs of strangers leave a club together at some point during their night out. I have never known of one them being murdered. And as shown by this case, the club/bar/city centre CCTV is amongst the first things the police check.
Whilst I think people can be more careful sometimes, ie letting your friends know where you're going, passing on an address etc. I don't think they should spend their whole lives never taking a chance through fear of being murdered
I would bet my bottom dollar, if you went clubbing every week, and left with a stranger every week. There would still be more chance of you being murdered by the man you share your flat with.
I'm sorry if that's how my post came across, it really isn't me victim blaming. More making a sweeping generalisation that everybody can be a little bit more careful sometimes. Myself included. Hell I've left a club at 12am with a stranger and not told anyone...
I'm sorry if that's how my post came across, it really isn't me victim blaming. More making a sweeping generalisation that everybody can be a little bit more careful sometimes. Myself included. Hell I've left a club at 12am with a stranger and not told anyone...
You can disagree all you like. I think more women are murdered on a weekly basis by partners than women who have gone home with a stranger from a nightclub.
I still find it bizarre people are commenting on how he looks. It's been pointed out that the only photo we have seen is an old one. It's also been said that she left the club under no duress and was seemingly "with it"
She may have known him? She may have just wanted some fun?
Perhaps she had no interest in him whatsoever, or did but only left the club for fresh air or a cigarette. She left her jacket and friends and was wary of taxis because of risk of danger. Its possible of course that she happily went with him, but equally possible that she didn't. If it was usual behaviour would her friends have reported her missing so quickly?
I don't think what he looks like is relevant to any decision she may have made, as so far only suggestion of intimacy has come from him.
Wouldn't he have told the police if they were already known to each other? Wasn't it said they met in the club.
Perhaps she had no interest in him whatsoever, or did but only left the club for fresh air or a cigarette. She left her jacket and friends and was wary of taxis because of risk of danger. Its possible of course that she happily went with him, but equally possible that she didn't. If it was usual behaviour would her friends have reported her missing so quickly?
I don't think what he looks like is relevant to any decision she may have made, as so far only suggestion of intimacy has come from him.
I see your thinking here, but I wouldn't put too much store by what the Police are saying at this early stage of the investigation-whether they knew each other or not. We, the public, will probably never know the sequence of events, and there's no reason why we should, I think.
You can disagree all you like. I think more women are murdered on a weekly basis by partners than women who have gone home with a stranger from a nightclub.
The vast majority of murder victims know their murderer and, often, the murderer is a member of their family. Stranger murder is far more rare and, being rare, makes the news.
Charming Irish prose. From the land of Joyce, Wilde and Shaw, very nice, you must be proud.
You really have no capacity to tolerate anybody other than the Irish [ or specifically you ] having a view re the Irish or Ireland.
I have reported your offensive post, hope you get banned, and the thread shut down.
I will discuss absolutely anything with you if its in the right place - you posted that in here to get a reaction (I shouldn't have but did react). There was a 24 y/o girl from my hometown for which many of my friends knew personally was murdered while studying in Scotland - a decent farming family who's lives have been destroyed within a few days. A bit of respect wouldn't be much to ask....
At university I had friends who used to just disappear and could never understand why I was so hysterical about it. Then when I was about 23 one of my friends left us on a night out and we couldn't get hold of her until the next afternoon and I was beside myself but no one else was, like it was a normal thing?!
I was at Uni in Manchester in the early 80s.
Peter Sutcliffe (Yorkshire Ripper) was uppermost in everyones' minds.
He was caught in Jan 81 but the fear continued and it was palpable, whoever you talked to. People buddied up and everyone made sure everyone else was OK. In my circle anyway and from what I could gather, everyone else.
Males and females. (because single males can also be subject to random violence)
We all forget sometimes, bad times fade and we don't want to live our lives paranoid all the time.
I still find it bizarre people are commenting on how he predators out there, s. It's been pointed out that the only photo we have seen is an old one. It's also been said that she left the club under no duress and was seemingly "with it"
She may have known him? She may have just wanted some fun?
That's fair enough..just my personal opinion. Last time I was at was at the Arches I encountered at least three creeps who followed me about and groped me.
It happens..I'm about 14 years older than poor Karen and now more aware. So many predators out there. Makes me feel sick.
I still find it bizarre people are commenting on how he looks. It's been pointed out that the only photo we have seen is an old one. It's also been said that she left the club under no duress and was seemingly "with it"
She may have known him? She may have just wanted some fun?
I wonder as well if they knew each other, or had at least met before.
If he knew that she was a nurse he could have pretended that a friend had been taken ill and needed her help, which could explain why she left without her coat or telling her friends.
I wonder as well if they knew each other, or had at least met before.
If he knew that she was a nurse he could have pretended that a friend had been taken ill and needed her help, which could explain why she left without her coat or telling her friends.
I know it's quite macabre to speculate about such a tragic event, but Karen leaving the club not under duress while leaving her jacket and not informing her friends seems at odds with what happened, and the above is a very plausible reason why she have have done so.
Curiosity got the better of me and I google imaged his name. There's a photo from the daily record but the article no longer exists, but it's a different photo of him and he certainly looks better than in that "outside of court" photo.
In fact, it's placed side by side with Karen's photo and "my god he's way too ugly for her" does not spring to my mind at all.
I have no idea when this photo was taken of him, but I'm just trying to show some people, that the way he looks in one photo really doesn't mean he's a murderer. The only thing that makes him a possible murderer is that if he did indeed murder her.
We do not know if he was a stranger to her, we do not know if they'd knew of each other, we do not know why she left the club with him, really.... We don't know anything. And I find casting aspersions on someone because of the way they look wrong.
I know it's quite macabre to speculate about such a tragic event, but Karen leaving the club not under duress while leaving her jacket and not informing her friends seems at odds with what happened, and the above is a very plausible reason why she have have done so.
I don't think the coat thing is a much of a muchness though... The amount of coats left in a club every night is quite high. The amount of girls sharing hangers and only getting one ticket is also quite high, as is one person putting all 5 coats in at the same and keeping all the tickets.
It's the not telling the friends thing that sticks out for me, although as mentioned before, I've done this myself. With the thought of sending a text/making a phone call to someone ASAP (or when I can be bothered/remember)
In reality (and I know it may come across as disrespectful to say it) but she could have known him or she may have just met him, he may have turned on the charm and she fancied him, thought she'd have a bit of fun and text her mate at some point over the next hour. She wouldn't be the first.
Comments
Another 'precisely' from this elderly dragon!!
I completely disagree with that
Charming Irish prose. From the land of Joyce, Wilde and Shaw, very nice, you must be proud.
You really have no capacity to tolerate anybody other than the Irish [ or specifically you ] having a view re the Irish or Ireland.
I have reported your offensive post, hope you get banned, and the thread shut down.
Ebony blames Karen for getting herself killed.
To be fair, Joyce would probably have approved.
Job done then Monty , slow handclap .
No I didn't
I'm sorry if that's how my post came across, it really isn't me victim blaming. More making a sweeping generalisation that everybody can be a little bit more careful sometimes. Myself included. Hell I've left a club at 12am with a stranger and not told anyone...
Ahhh!! Thank you for the clarification!!:D
Sorry fa I meant ebony.
You can disagree all you like. I think more women are murdered on a weekly basis by partners than women who have gone home with a stranger from a nightclub.
Wouldn't he have told the police if they were already known to each other? Wasn't it said they met in the club.
Perhaps she had no interest in him whatsoever, or did but only left the club for fresh air or a cigarette. She left her jacket and friends and was wary of taxis because of risk of danger. Its possible of course that she happily went with him, but equally possible that she didn't. If it was usual behaviour would her friends have reported her missing so quickly?
I don't think what he looks like is relevant to any decision she may have made, as so far only suggestion of intimacy has come from him.
If Wilde could speak he may well have said the same. Joyce and Shaw would have clapped
I see your thinking here, but I wouldn't put too much store by what the Police are saying at this early stage of the investigation-whether they knew each other or not. We, the public, will probably never know the sequence of events, and there's no reason why we should, I think.
The vast majority of murder victims know their murderer and, often, the murderer is a member of their family. Stranger murder is far more rare and, being rare, makes the news.
I was at Uni in Manchester in the early 80s.
Peter Sutcliffe (Yorkshire Ripper) was uppermost in everyones' minds.
He was caught in Jan 81 but the fear continued and it was palpable, whoever you talked to. People buddied up and everyone made sure everyone else was OK. In my circle anyway and from what I could gather, everyone else.
Males and females. (because single males can also be subject to random violence)
We all forget sometimes, bad times fade and we don't want to live our lives paranoid all the time.
That's fair enough..just my personal opinion. Last time I was at was at the Arches I encountered at least three creeps who followed me about and groped me.
It happens..I'm about 14 years older than poor Karen and now more aware. So many predators out there. Makes me feel sick.
Or do most bite their lips and return to friends?
In my day we would get occasional stories of someone 'coming on strong' (which might have been code for more than that, but not for us male ears)
No-one reported it though. I would have hoped our society would now.
I wonder as well if they knew each other, or had at least met before.
If he knew that she was a nurse he could have pretended that a friend had been taken ill and needed her help, which could explain why she left without her coat or telling her friends.
In fact, it's placed side by side with Karen's photo and "my god he's way too ugly for her" does not spring to my mind at all.
I have no idea when this photo was taken of him, but I'm just trying to show some people, that the way he looks in one photo really doesn't mean he's a murderer. The only thing that makes him a possible murderer is that if he did indeed murder her.
We do not know if he was a stranger to her, we do not know if they'd knew of each other, we do not know why she left the club with him, really.... We don't know anything. And I find casting aspersions on someone because of the way they look wrong.
I don't think the coat thing is a much of a muchness though... The amount of coats left in a club every night is quite high. The amount of girls sharing hangers and only getting one ticket is also quite high, as is one person putting all 5 coats in at the same and keeping all the tickets.
It's the not telling the friends thing that sticks out for me, although as mentioned before, I've done this myself. With the thought of sending a text/making a phone call to someone ASAP (or when I can be bothered/remember)
In reality (and I know it may come across as disrespectful to say it) but she could have known him or she may have just met him, he may have turned on the charm and she fancied him, thought she'd have a bit of fun and text her mate at some point over the next hour. She wouldn't be the first.