However, in DB they were used woefully. It just played up things they always do. Strax, with his stupidity and "death to humans" jokes and the women with every scene saying how they are a couple. It didn't take them and actually develop them at all.
they've been around a while now , and Moffat seems very fond of them , they keep appearing in big stories and are semi-regulars .
there have been various guest characters that could've been brought back but haven't , so why does he keep bringing these 3 back ?
I thought Strax had some funny lines the first few times , but its getting boring now .
Vastra and Jenny - I'm not keen on .
but are they popular generally ? do you like them ?
Personally I find Strax far too 'comedy value' but I rarely laugh. Vastra and Jenny are alright but they don't set the screen on fire and don't really add anything particularly unique other than being a fews more characters to drive things forward when it would be a stretch to have the assistant or the Doctor solve *everything* in the episode.
But yeah I wouldn't miss any of them. They just aren't that interesting or exciting.
Personally I find Strax far too 'comedy value' but I rarely laugh. Vastra and Jenny are alright but they don't set the screen on fire and don't really add anything particularly unique other than being a fews more characters to drive things forward when it would be a stretch to have the assistant or the Doctor solve *everything* in the episode.
But yeah I wouldn't miss any of them. They just aren't that interesting or exciting.
That's well reasoned (even if I don't agree with the conclusion).
In that respect, they're no more or less significant than - say - the handful of recurring UNIT officers in the original series and they serve a similar role in allowing for exposition and in some cases, providing the "justification" for the Doctor being on Earth - again.
Where I disagree is that I've found Vastra to be one of the best characters since DW came back in 2005. I love the fact that she's known to be a warrior and a rather vicious one at that but almost her entire character has been shown as wise, calm and extremely caring. She's a real contrast with pretty much everyone else on the show - cos it's chock full of very self-absorbed characters.
In bygone days of more robust child-rearing, Nanny had a saying, "Once is funny, twice is silly, three times is a slap".
I think of this when I think of the "Paternoster Gang" (Strax in particular), and we have had them five times now.
That nice Mr Moffat doesn't seem to understand the law of diminishing returns: if we had seen Vastra, Jenny, and Strax only in A Good Man Goes to War, they would have retained their original impact: each return merely lessens it. By now, they are by no means popular with me. I didn't actually shout "Kill them! Kill them all!" at the television on Saturday (there were children present), but the impulse was definitely there.
Hi! First post here. I am a new Doctor Who fan, having just watched every season since 2005 in the last three months.
I happen to like the trio. I think they add to the show. But what I would like to know is how is it that they Vastra and Strax can walk around in public Victorian London, and even talk with regular folks. Don't they (the public) see them as a lizard and a potato head?
Hi! First post here. I am a new Doctor Who fan, having just watched every season since 2005 in the last three months.
I happen to like the trio. I think they add to the show. But what I would like to know is how is it that they Vastra and Strax can walk around in public Victorian London, and even talk with regular folks. Don't they (the public) see them as a lizard and a potato head?
Vastra is veiled in public (and her dark clothes suggest widowhood) and Strax is a servant, so there are different kinds of physical/social invisibility at work here. However, it should be said that this is a Victorian London where Mr Ticktock can apparently walk the streets with only half a face, and nobody notices. The NHS and free eye-tests for everyone are still decades away (and doubtless the fog helped), but even so...
Welcome to the forum! Eccleston to Capaldi in three months must have been something of a rollercoaster ride. Do you have any plans for Hartnell to McGann?
Vastra is veiled in public (and her dark clothes suggest widowhood) and Strax is a servant, so there are different kinds of physical/social invisibility at work here. However, it should be said that this is a Victorian London where Mr Ticktock can apparently walk the streets with only half a face, and nobody notices. The NHS and free eye-tests for everyone are still decades away (and doubtless the fog helped), but even so...
Welcome to the forum! Eccleston to Capaldi in three months must have been something of a rollercoaster ride. Do you have any plans for Hartnell to McGann?
It was a roller coaster! I think I went through some of them too fast and I need to rewatch them. I can't get over how good the writing is for these storylines. And the cinematography/production is way above anything else on tv now.
As for Vastra, she sometimes lifts her veil to talk to people, so they can still see her face. But they can see Strax's face too, so that really doesn't matter, based on the answer you gave. I do see where you are going with the whole social invisibility, but I haven't really seen where Dr Who really went that way in any other episodes. I was expecting more a "translation matrix" answer or something else.
I am starting to watch season one with Hartnell. It is neat seeing where some of these old storylines got their start.
i'm not a big fan of the gang, and i'm especially confused as to why - having had their relationships clearly established already, even to a pretty casual viewer like myself - the show was acting like we might have forgotten and needed to devote a large part of the episode to delineating the relationships within the group.
i also don't get why the women have to pretend to be mistress and servant given that alternate universe steam punk victorians seem happy enough to accept aliens in the form of lizards walking freely amongst us.
I have never liked these two. Every time they appear, they are constantly referring to their "relationship" and that they are married. It smacks of over-compensation and just looks like Moffit attempting dispel homophobic rumours about him. DEEP BREATH gave these two way too much screen time, just about every scene with them was a re-enforcement of their sexuality, so that by the time we got to their onscreen kiss, their relationship just became groan material. It is starting to look like these two are Moffit's favourites, as he is able to draw parallels to Sherlock Holmes and keeps coming back to this theme. I nearly vomited when Vastra said "the game is a foot" - enough with the Sherlock references already! It was bad enough having all it all through the snowman episode. Yes we get it! Maybe Sherlock and Watson were gay, maybe Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was inspired by these two to create Sherlock or that Moffit is desperately trying to make the two shows cross over.... who cares! I just tune out now when I see them, because they are so predictable, oh and let me guess... they're married?!! What a surprise!
Pretty redundant characters who add nothing to the stories they appear in anymore. Quite good for their first couple of appearances, but they are a bit one dimensional - trotting out the same one liners time and time again. It only they would expand their range somewhat, they might improve. I'd prefer more use of UNIT - better scope for a spinoff IMHO, and better defined characters - not relying on their quirks to justify their inclusion.
i'm not a big fan of the gang, and i'm especially confused as to why - having had their relationships clearly established already, even to a pretty casual viewer like myself - the show was acting like we might have forgotten and needed to devote a large part of the episode to delineating the relationships within the group.
i also don't get why the women have to pretend to be mistress and servant given that alternate universe steam punk victorians seem happy enough to accept aliens in the form of lizards walking freely amongst us.
Didn't Vastra say that people call it her "disfigurement"?
I happen to like the trio. I think they add to the show. But what I would like to know is how is it that they Vastra and Strax can walk around in public Victorian London, and even talk with regular folks. Don't they (the public) see them as a lizard and a potato head?[/QUOTE]
Dont forget, back in early Victorian times there was a lot of disfigurement from stuff like Leprosy, syphilis and, err, in-breeding. Even a robot with half a face might have gotten away with things,
I actually don't mind them at all, but I do wonder why they keep being used when there's other guest characters we haven't seen for years. Steven Moffat is obviously very fond of them.
Comments
However, in DB they were used woefully. It just played up things they always do. Strax, with his stupidity and "death to humans" jokes and the women with every scene saying how they are a couple. It didn't take them and actually develop them at all.
good name for a band tho .
A. Why put 'lesbianism' in speech marks, are you implying it's not a real thing?
B. Why would they need to not mention the fact they're gay?
Would love a spin-off, and would like to see them continue in the main show for a long time to come.
Who is the "beast" - Vastra, who evolved from reptiles or Jenny who evolved from apes?
By that standard, ALL sex is "bestiality".
Personally I find Strax far too 'comedy value' but I rarely laugh. Vastra and Jenny are alright but they don't set the screen on fire and don't really add anything particularly unique other than being a fews more characters to drive things forward when it would be a stretch to have the assistant or the Doctor solve *everything* in the episode.
But yeah I wouldn't miss any of them. They just aren't that interesting or exciting.
That's well reasoned (even if I don't agree with the conclusion).
In that respect, they're no more or less significant than - say - the handful of recurring UNIT officers in the original series and they serve a similar role in allowing for exposition and in some cases, providing the "justification" for the Doctor being on Earth - again.
Where I disagree is that I've found Vastra to be one of the best characters since DW came back in 2005. I love the fact that she's known to be a warrior and a rather vicious one at that but almost her entire character has been shown as wise, calm and extremely caring. She's a real contrast with pretty much everyone else on the show - cos it's chock full of very self-absorbed characters.
Well them or UNIT.
Probably expand the regular characters to a group of 4 or 5 and you could have some familiar faces as recurring characters or guest stars.
The Paternoster Gang
Vastra
Jenny
Strax
Boy or Girl Leader of the Paternoster Irregulars
Scotland Yard Detective
Guest stars
Torchwood Agents
Jago and Litefoot
Jack Harkness
The Doctor
Arthur Conan Doyle
UNIT (set in the near Future)
Kate Stewart
Osgood
Army Captain
Army Corporal
Another Scientist
Guest Stars
Martha and Mickey
The Doctor (possibly even a previous incarnation*)
Previous Companions
*The Doctor could have been lying when he met Kate in Power of Three and had already met her in a previous incarnation.
I think of this when I think of the "Paternoster Gang" (Strax in particular), and we have had them five times now.
That nice Mr Moffat doesn't seem to understand the law of diminishing returns: if we had seen Vastra, Jenny, and Strax only in A Good Man Goes to War, they would have retained their original impact: each return merely lessens it. By now, they are by no means popular with me. I didn't actually shout "Kill them! Kill them all!" at the television on Saturday (there were children present), but the impulse was definitely there.
I quite fancy the idea of Clara (one or more of her) in a transtemporal version of Orphan Black.
I happen to like the trio. I think they add to the show. But what I would like to know is how is it that they Vastra and Strax can walk around in public Victorian London, and even talk with regular folks. Don't they (the public) see them as a lizard and a potato head?
Vastra is veiled in public (and her dark clothes suggest widowhood) and Strax is a servant, so there are different kinds of physical/social invisibility at work here. However, it should be said that this is a Victorian London where Mr Ticktock can apparently walk the streets with only half a face, and nobody notices. The NHS and free eye-tests for everyone are still decades away (and doubtless the fog helped), but even so...
Welcome to the forum! Eccleston to Capaldi in three months must have been something of a rollercoaster ride. Do you have any plans for Hartnell to McGann?
It was a roller coaster! I think I went through some of them too fast and I need to rewatch them. I can't get over how good the writing is for these storylines. And the cinematography/production is way above anything else on tv now.
As for Vastra, she sometimes lifts her veil to talk to people, so they can still see her face. But they can see Strax's face too, so that really doesn't matter, based on the answer you gave. I do see where you are going with the whole social invisibility, but I haven't really seen where Dr Who really went that way in any other episodes. I was expecting more a "translation matrix" answer or something else.
I am starting to watch season one with Hartnell. It is neat seeing where some of these old storylines got their start.
i also don't get why the women have to pretend to be mistress and servant given that alternate universe steam punk victorians seem happy enough to accept aliens in the form of lizards walking freely amongst us.
Didn't Vastra say that people call it her "disfigurement"?