I agree that MP`s, MEP`s, councilors, etc, should be elected by due democratic process and they are quite often found to be politicians. Whether the poster was making a statement or offering an opinion does not alter the fact that some of her comments were inaccurate, ill conceived and the one in question was bordering on the absurd. She`ll be telling us they`re all honest next.
Oh yeah, I totally agree. the only problem i have with our monarchy is there are too many hangers on but no problem with the Queen herself.
The house of Lords is another matter. £300 a day just for falling asleep.
We live in a different world today that makes the Lords redundant.
The Lords was a good idea to stop parliament sneaking through bills under the radar. the fact they had held up the bill highlighted to the public that in there opinion there may be something drastically wrong with the proposed new law.
There was no mass media to make the public aware of unfair laws etc when the Lords was a vital part of our democracy.
Those days are gone, we really dont need a bunch of old people who have no public backing to make us aware of just what our governments plans to introduce.
So ive no problem with the queen herself but the quicker we do away with the Lords the better. complete waste of money.
So you agree that the EU Parliament is not an undemocratic, unelected body?
It is democratically elected but by the lowest of electoral turnout`s and there are around a third of MEP`s that are Eurosceptics. Hardly a ringing endorsement. Although the MEP`s pass the laws that affect all of us, a lot of these are drawn up by unelected bureaucrats. The MEP`s merely rubber stamp or reject them. That`s not my idea of parliamentary democracy. It`s this organisation that needs binning off and don`t forget, it has not been audited in 20 years. How`s that for democracy in action.
Oh yeah, I totally agree. the only problem i have with our monarchy is there are too many hangers on but no problem with the Queen herself.
The house of Lords is another matter. £300 a day just for falling asleep.
We live in a different world today that makes the Lords redundant.
The Lords was a good idea to stop parliament sneaking through bills under the radar. the fact they had held up the bill highlighted to the public that in there opinion there may be something drastically wrong with the proposed new law.
There was no mass media to make the public aware of unfair laws etc when the Lords was a vital part of our democracy.
Those days are gone, we really dont need a bunch of old people who have no public backing to make us aware of just what our governments plans to introduce.
So ive no problem with the queen herself but the quicker we do away with the Lords the better. complete waste of money.
You cannot have successive Kings or Queens without a Royal Family, which you so elegantly refer to as "hangers on". The fact that the House of Lords is predominantly populated with older people is relevant because with age comes experience. It serves a very useful purpose and until we have something better to replace it, leave well alone.
You cannot have successive Kings or Queens without a Royal Family, which you so elegantly refer to as "hangers on". The fact that the House of Lords is predominantly populated with older people is relevant because with age comes experience. It serves a very useful purpose and until we have something better to replace it, leave well alone.
I have no strong feelings for or against the immediate Royal family. this is about the tax payer footing the bill i assume. if it's about having a Royal family that costs the country nothing then I have no problem with any of the Royal family.
So what purpose does the House of Lords serve today.
if you believe like myself they serve no purpose then nothing needs replacing.
It is democratically elected but by the lowest of electoral turnout`s and there are around a third of MEP`s that are Eurosceptics. Hardly a ringing endorsement. Although the MEP`s pass the laws that affect all of us, a lot of these are drawn up by unelected bureaucrats. The MEP`s merely rubber stamp or reject them. That`s not my idea of parliamentary democracy. It`s this organisation that needs binning off and don`t forget, it has not been audited in 20 years. How`s that for democracy in action.
Then please enlighten us all with documented accounts. Should make interesting reading.
Useful article:
It’s that time of year again when the European Union budget is subject to scrutiny. Every year the budget is audited by the independent European Court of Auditors. Every year for the past seven years the Auditors have signed off the accounts as being reliable and accurate. And every year, British media have claimed that the EU accounts haven’t been passed by the auditors at all.
Very useful. A pro EU organisation including the whiter than white Peter Mandelson, a decidedly dubious character ! Incidentally, I dare say the House of Lords would not have blocked that bill you mentioned today as they did in 1998, not with blokes like him in the house now. Best not to slag him off though, especially in view of his very close ties with Russian arms dealers. Sorry, M`Lud !
Well, it was quite an obvious one. But why did you put "example" in quotes?
An obvious one for you, yes.
"Example" as it's your opinion that this is one instance where the Lords "have not worked" and were "undemocratic". You would be better off being consistent rather than just picking up on one hobby horse topic to attack an institution.
Admittedly you want to get rid of the Lords but say they are entirely undemocratic and you'd have a decent point to ague.
"Example" as it's your opinion that this is one instance where the Lords "have not worked" and were "undemocratic". You would be better off being consistent rather than just picking up on one hobby horse topic to attack an institution.
I was asked for examples and I gave one. Where's the inconsistency?
Admittedly you want to get rid of the Lords but say they are entirely undemocratic and you'd have a decent point to ague.
Well, this was an example of them being undemocratic. Don't quite see your point.
I was asked for examples and I gave one. Where's the inconsistency?
Well, this was an example of them being undemocratic. Don't quite see your point.
Well given that the Lords are not elected in the first place then that was the point about their being undemocratic. You just gave an example where you disagreed with their decision. If it had been the other way round you would have been cheering them on.
Well given that the Lords are not elected in the first place then that was the point about their being undemocratic. You just gave an example where you disagreed with their decision. If it had been the other way round you would have been cheering them on.
You can read my mind now?
I was asked for examples of how the Lords doesn't always work in the interests of democracy. I gave one.
Well given that the Lords are not elected in the first place then that was the point about their being undemocratic. You just gave an example where you disagreed with their decision. If it had been the other way round you would have been cheering them on.
Just because a position isn't elected then that doesn't make it undemocratic. We don't elect our judges, public prosecutors or others jobs that they do in the US. This government brought in elected Crime commissioners but that hasn't gone down too well and most cities which have been given the choice have rejected directly elected mayors. So do we want more democracy or not?
The Lords certainly needs further reform and I wouldn't be against an elected element (though maybe not 100% elected) but the Monarchy should remain for as long as it has popular public support. Those who want to see it abolished are going against the democratic will of the country.
Comments
Blimey.
We agree on something
That's a narrow set of options.
A sterling example ! I rest my case !
If that's what you want, I think you would be very disappointed!
So you agree that the EU Parliament is not an undemocratic, unelected body?
I would stand a better chance of being elected president than the walking zombie.
The house of Lords is another matter. £300 a day just for falling asleep.
We live in a different world today that makes the Lords redundant.
The Lords was a good idea to stop parliament sneaking through bills under the radar. the fact they had held up the bill highlighted to the public that in there opinion there may be something drastically wrong with the proposed new law.
There was no mass media to make the public aware of unfair laws etc when the Lords was a vital part of our democracy.
Those days are gone, we really dont need a bunch of old people who have no public backing to make us aware of just what our governments plans to introduce.
So ive no problem with the queen herself but the quicker we do away with the Lords the better. complete waste of money.
It is democratically elected but by the lowest of electoral turnout`s and there are around a third of MEP`s that are Eurosceptics. Hardly a ringing endorsement. Although the MEP`s pass the laws that affect all of us, a lot of these are drawn up by unelected bureaucrats. The MEP`s merely rubber stamp or reject them. That`s not my idea of parliamentary democracy. It`s this organisation that needs binning off and don`t forget, it has not been audited in 20 years. How`s that for democracy in action.
You cannot have successive Kings or Queens without a Royal Family, which you so elegantly refer to as "hangers on". The fact that the House of Lords is predominantly populated with older people is relevant because with age comes experience. It serves a very useful purpose and until we have something better to replace it, leave well alone.
So what purpose does the House of Lords serve today.
if you believe like myself they serve no purpose then nothing needs replacing.
I just knew that would be the "example" you would choose....
Well, it was quite an obvious one. But why did you put "example" in quotes?
Very few would want to see such an unlikely scenario, so why bother to mention it?
An urban myth I'm afraid!
Then please enlighten us all with documented accounts. Should make interesting reading.
Useful article:
http://www.britishinfluence.org/it_s_the_british_media_that_needs_auditing
Accounts are signed off by the European Court of auditors - to a higher standard than the UK government's accounts actually.
http://www.eca.europa.eu/en/Pages/ecadefault.aspx
Accounts for 2013 ( signed off):
http://www.eca.europa.eu/Lists/ECADocuments/AR13/AR13_EN.pdf
I would not believe all these 'straight banana' stories you read about in the populist press.
Very useful. A pro EU organisation including the whiter than white Peter Mandelson, a decidedly dubious character ! Incidentally, I dare say the House of Lords would not have blocked that bill you mentioned today as they did in 1998, not with blokes like him in the house now. Best not to slag him off though, especially in view of his very close ties with Russian arms dealers. Sorry, M`Lud !
An obvious one for you, yes.
"Example" as it's your opinion that this is one instance where the Lords "have not worked" and were "undemocratic". You would be better off being consistent rather than just picking up on one hobby horse topic to attack an institution.
Admittedly you want to get rid of the Lords but say they are entirely undemocratic and you'd have a decent point to ague.
Well, this was an example of them being undemocratic. Don't quite see your point.
Well given that the Lords are not elected in the first place then that was the point about their being undemocratic. You just gave an example where you disagreed with their decision. If it had been the other way round you would have been cheering them on.
You can read my mind now?
I was asked for examples of how the Lords doesn't always work in the interests of democracy. I gave one.
Just because a position isn't elected then that doesn't make it undemocratic. We don't elect our judges, public prosecutors or others jobs that they do in the US. This government brought in elected Crime commissioners but that hasn't gone down too well and most cities which have been given the choice have rejected directly elected mayors. So do we want more democracy or not?
The Lords certainly needs further reform and I wouldn't be against an elected element (though maybe not 100% elected) but the Monarchy should remain for as long as it has popular public support. Those who want to see it abolished are going against the democratic will of the country.