Options

Was Denise robbed ?

1111214161723

Comments

  • Options
    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5,578
    Forum Member
    Gneiss wrote: »
    On strictly a half decent male dancer will always win against a female contestant. There has to be a gulf the size of the grand canyon for the female to even stand a chance.
    There's a grain of truth in that, but it's too extreme a statement. Kara Tointon, for example.
  • Options
    PinkyPigPinkyPig Posts: 2,151
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Perhaps if the DVO fans, who seem to be unusually bitter about her not winning, stopped banging on about how she was robbed and what a good dancer she is, and repeating that any training in dance that she's had was the wrong type of training, and also stopped being so spiteful towards Louis, who, like it or not did win, then those who disagree would stop arguing with them...just a thought.
  • Options
    RhumbatuggerRhumbatugger Posts: 85,713
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    PinkyPig wrote: »
    Perhaps if the DVO fans, who seem to be unusually bitter about her not winning, stopped banging on about how she was robbed and what a good dancer she is, and repeating that any training in dance that she's had was the wrong type of training, and also stopped being so spiteful towards Louis, who, like it or not did win, then those who disagree would stop arguing with them...just a thought.

    Here's another. Why do some Louis fans give a damn about Denise's experience? Do they think she's better than him, even though Louis won? But he's got the popularity factor so that's the most important thing? He has certainly and he won.

    And if not, what's the problem then? Louis won because they think he's the better dancer IN SPITE of her having (they believe) unfair experience.

    Can't see why they keep banging on about it:confused:

    Not that all on the thread are fans of either mind.
  • Options
    johartukjohartuk Posts: 11,320
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    PinkyPig wrote: »
    Perhaps if the DVO fans, who seem to be unusually bitter about her not winning, stopped banging on about how she was robbed and what a good dancer she is, and repeating that any training in dance that she's had was the wrong type of training, and also stopped being so spiteful towards Louis, who, like it or not did win, then those who disagree would stop arguing with them...just a thought.

    ^^^
    This!

    The irony is that Denise probably doesn't give a stuff. She got to the final and came at least one place higher than she expected to. She got to do all her dances and danced well. Her career will have no doubt had a boost because of her time on Strictly. So why would she be bothered?
  • Options
    fondantfancyfondantfancy Posts: 3,968
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    mindyann wrote: »
    I think the problem is that Denise has called herself a dancer. Whether she is or not she has labelled herself one in the past.

    Just my opinion, but I imagine she did this when she was starting out in Chicago to stress her credentials and so that the people who would be considering buying tickets wouldn't just think they would be going to see a Breakfast tele presenter - never thinking for a minute that 10 or so years down the line she wold be trying to down play those same credentials because her words and interview from that time are still out there and easy to find.

    Denise and James never really worked out how to square that particular circle.

    Yes, IMO that's the crux of the matter - for Chicago she bigged up her dance ability and (mistakenly IMO) she downplayed it for Strictly - to say that her role in Chicago was just 'sitting on a chair' was a tremendous mistake.

    If she had just come right out and said that yes, she had danced a fair bit but no, she'd no ballroom or latin experience to speak of then perhaps, perhaps, the BBC would be criticised for employing her but Denise herself would not have had to bang on about it.
  • Options
    ESPIONdansantESPIONdansant Posts: 6,760
    Forum Member
    Honesty is always the best policy.

    She could have said she'd done a lot of solo stage work but SCD is all about dancing with a partner and that was new to her so she hoped she'd be good at it.

    But attempting to convince us she was a complete beginner, when she very clearly wasn't, was bound to fail.
  • Options
    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,017
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I think she's definitely a better dancer than Louis and should probably have won (though I didn't like her showdance at all).

    But it's no use saying that when it's a public vote, is it? I voted for Dani and Vincent and once they went out for Kim and Pasha, because they were my faves of the three remaining, I didn't vote for Denise and James because I didn't enjoy their performances as much.
  • Options
    MACTOWINMACTOWIN Posts: 34,978
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    No, that was just an honest opinion.Note the poster said 'arguably'.

    What is getting boring is you and your little enclave's insistence on being so dismissive of and purposefully misconstruing others' posts.

    Merry Christmas. :D

    Well said.
  • Options
    MACTOWINMACTOWIN Posts: 34,978
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Here's another. Why do some Louis fans give a damn about Denise's experience? Do they think she's better than him, even though Louis won? But he's got the popularity factor so that's the most important thing? He has certainly and he won.

    And if not, what's the problem then? Louis won because they think he's the better dancer IN SPITE of her having (they believe) unfair experience.

    Can't see why they keep banging on about it:confused:

    Not that all on the thread are fans of either mind.

    I agree it all seems rather strange.
  • Options
    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 40
    Forum Member
    i quite agree. She did. (Come across well on SCD - to me, anyway - and also had her weak dances; thereby nullifying the 'she's a professional ringah' arguments! As I said before, if she'd been a 'professional dancer' she would have been Ola, or Natalie, or Flavia or Karen etc etc etc. She's simply someone who has a talent for dancing and has utilised it in her stage performances. But apparently, that makes her unsuitable for a dance competition. :confused: Crazy, isn't it?)

    I have no issue with Flavia and Louis winning. I thought he seemed a lovely guy, who had some talent and had the obligatory 'journey' (which always helps) during the show. I was delighted for Flavia in particular. I just hope she doesn't do a Camilla and retire on the back of it. We need her back next year!

    So I am not a 'Denise fan who can't get over the fact that their favourite didn't win'. At the end of the day, it was a public vote and she was in the top three. I think the lass done well.

    What does get my goat is the little enclave on here who persist in demeaning 'Denise' fans (and compartmentalising them all into 'sore losers' when there isn't an ounce of truth in that), then continuing to villify Denise for no reason other than they get off on it.

    It really does nothing but show those those people up for what they are.

    I wasn't so bothered by accusations of Denise being a ringer. She was a great dancer but she was no Rachel - who I loved - or Kara - who I didn't like so much.

    What I don't get is when people say she was technically the best dancer of the final 3. And that's it, there can be no arguments. Because I really don't think she was.

    Her Cha Cha/Salsa/Samba/Rumba wasn't as good as Louis'. And their Tango/Foxtrot/Waltz/Showdance were pretty much the same. So that just leaves the Viennese Waltz/Jive/Paso/Charleston in Denise's favour. And, apart from the Jive, Louis was much closer in standard to the dances Denise did well than she was to the ones he did well.

    And although I didn't enjoy her dances - apart from her Paso - I appreciated them because you could see she'd put a lot of work in. She did very well to get to the final three and seemed very happy with that.
  • Options
    Cally's mumCally's mum Posts: 4,953
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I wasn't so bothered by accusations of Denise being a ringer. She was a great dancer but she was no Rachel - who I loved - or Kara - who I didn't like so much.

    What I don't get is when people say she was technically the best dancer of the final 3. And that's it, there can be no arguments. Because I really don't think she was.

    Her Cha Cha/Salsa/Samba/Rumba wasn't as good as Louis'. And their Tango/Foxtrot/Waltz/Showdance were pretty much the same. So that just leaves the Viennese Waltz/Jive/Paso/Charleston in Denise's favour. And, apart from the Jive, Louis was much closer in standard to the dances Denise did well than she was to the ones he did well.

    And although I didn't enjoy her dances - apart from her Paso - I appreciated them because you could see she'd put a lot of work in. She did very well to get to the final three and seemed very happy with that.

    Absolutely. She seemed very happy with her lot. I think most 'Denise' fans are in agreement with this.
    DavidJames wrote: »
    I think some people tend not to realise the massive range of possibilities involved in "being a dancer".

    For example, a tap dancer will train for years or decades, will be highly proficient at that particular area - but is quite likely to be just a beginner if trying to learn partner dancing.

    For that matter, even the gap between different partner dances can be quite wide. It took me years to transition from being a competent salsa dancer to being a competent AT dancer, for example.

    So the "advantage" of some dance experience is way overrated. It may even be worse than useless, because you may have learnt some style or method or technique for one dance which makes learning a new style more difficult - unlearning is more tricky than learning sometimes.

    Dance experience and training are helpful, but realistically, unless you're actually a competitive ballroom dancer, they're no more helpful than physical ability, commitment, or entertainment or sports-training skills.

    The voice of reason as always. :D
    PinkyPig wrote: »
    Perhaps if the DVO fans, who seem to be unusually bitter about her not winning, stopped banging on about how she was robbed and what a good dancer she is, and repeating that any training in dance that she's had was the wrong type of training, and also stopped being so spiteful towards Louis, who, like it or not did win, then those who disagree would stop arguing with them...just a thought.

    Oh for frack's sake. I haven't seen that many DVO fans bitter about her not winning. This thread was the focus obviously, but the vast majority are reasonable people who have acknowledged that this is a public vote; no-one is therefore 'robbed', they were happy to see her in the final three etc.

    What's really infuriating me now is this type of attitude from people who simply don't like Denise and therefore are using this as a stick now to accuse 'DVO fans' of being rabid and bitter. When this is PATENTLY NOT TRUE. Do me a favour and if you're going to make an argument, at least let it have a basis in FACT.
  • Options
    JohnCurryJohnCurry Posts: 1,372
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    johartuk wrote: »
    ^^^
    This!

    The irony is that Denise probably doesn't give a stuff. She got to the final and came at least one place higher than she expected to. She got to do all her dances and danced well. Her career will have no doubt had a boost because of her time on Strictly. So why would she be bothered?

    Exactly - and produced a showdance that was the best in any year. That alone will have far more effect on her subsequent career than winning the public vote.
  • Options
    PinkyPigPinkyPig Posts: 2,151
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Oh for frack's sake. I haven't seen that many DVO fans bitter about her not winning. This thread was the focus obviously, but the vast majority are reasonable people who have acknowledged that this is a public vote; no-one is therefore 'robbed', they were happy to see her in the final three etc.

    What's really infuriating me now is this type of attitude from people who simply don't like Denise and therefore are using this as a stick now to accuse 'DVO fans' of being rabid and bitter. When this is PATENTLY NOT TRUE. Do me a favour and if you're going to make an argument, at least let it have a basis in FACT.

    I'm actually really offended by your post. At no point did I refer to DVO fans as "rabid", but the whole tone of your post does suggest you are bitter. Further up the thread, you have referred to an "enclave" and you seem to have lumped me in with whoever else is in it simply because I have commented at what I am observing on this forum. Perhaps it is because after the final in other years I haven't spent much time reading this forum, but I never recall the sort of reaction I have seen from Denise supporters when their favourite didn't win. The thread is asking whether she was robbed. She wasn't, more people voted for someone else and slaggint that person off isn't going to change the outcome...and some of her supporters have been slagging Louis off and continue to do so.

    And for the record, I am not using anything as a stick to beat her with, I don't dislike the woman and enjoyed her dances, she simply wasn't my favourite. Your attack on me does bear out the point I was making.
  • Options
    katmobilekatmobile Posts: 10,889
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    JohnCurry wrote: »
    Exactly - and produced a showdance that was the best in any year. That alone will have far more effect on her subsequent career than winning the public vote.

    Hardly - there were a lot of showdances that were better but it wasn't her fault she danced it well - but it was pretty bog standardly lift heavy.
  • Options
    linc52linc52 Posts: 1,780
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    no she wasnt robbed as you put it
  • Options
    Cally's mumCally's mum Posts: 4,953
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    PinkyPig wrote: »
    I'm actually really offended by your post. At no point did I refer to DVO fans as "rabid", but the whole tone of your post does suggest you are bitter. Further up the thread, you have referred to an "enclave" and you seem to have lumped me in with whoever else is in it simply because I have commented at what I am observing on this forum. Perhaps it is because after the final in other years I haven't spent much time reading this forum, but I never recall the sort of reaction I have seen from Denise supporters when their favourite didn't win. The thread is asking whether she was robbed. She wasn't, more people voted for someone else and slaggint that person off isn't going to change the outcome...and some of her supporters have been slagging Louis off and continue to do so.

    And for the record, I am not using anything as a stick to beat her with, I don't dislike the woman and enjoyed her dances, she simply wasn't my favourite. Your attack on me does bear out the point I was making.

    My apologies if what you read offended you and you feel as if you were lumped in with others.

    However, no, I'm not a bitter Denise fan. I liked Denise, but I wasn't actually bothered who won. I just wanted to enjoy the show. I'm just ruddy well fed up with all the getting at people on this board for no good reason and the getting at the people who go on this show and (usually) put their heart and soul into it (there have been a few in the past who haven't, I know). It goes on every year and it's getting worse instead of better.

    It's as if people suddenly lose all sense of perspective and restraint and come on here and enjoy villifying people who appear on a light entertainment show. I don't get it. I have never got it. I never will. Maybe that's because I was brought up to believe that if you can't say something good about someone (or something constructive at least), then don't say anything at all. There's nothing constructive about some of what has been said about Denise (and Lisa, come to think of it). A lot of it has just been plain mean for the sake of it.

    I haven't actually seen many people being 'bitter' that Denise didn't win. Maybe two or three have (although again, I haven't seen them), and they're a vocal minority that makes it seem like a lot. Even this thread OP isn't exactly bitter (not when reading the actual words that they wrote). They were asking a question. And most people on here who have professed a liking for her have actually stated that no, she wasn't robbed. The public decide and that's what they did. I was very pleased when Flavia and Louis won. I liked Louis. I thought he was a lovely guy. I liked Dani and Vincent. I enjoyed Denise's dances (although not all of them. She wasn't as good at the latin as she seemed to lose her hips). I enjoyed some of Kimberley's dances too. But I didn't connect with her. Which I freely admit is probably a failing of my own.

    I got angry, I admit it. I've generally, in the past, been quite mannered in what I wrote. But I am so sick of seeing all the nastiness this year (and no, I'm definitely not accusing you of that). I allowed my temper to get the better of me and for that, I am sorry.
  • Options
    penelopesimpsonpenelopesimpson Posts: 14,909
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    No just reaped what she sowed, you can`t fool the public. Louis and Flavia worthy winners!

    presuming the public are blind then probably not.

    A relentless Twitter campaign of negativity against a talented hard working lady who kept going till the end. Horrible, and the worst thing about SCD so-called followers. Louis was a worthy winner but what Denise had to endure was totally disgusting.
  • Options
    penelopesimpsonpenelopesimpson Posts: 14,909
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Yes, IMO that's the crux of the matter - for Chicago she bigged up her dance ability and (mistakenly IMO) she downplayed it for Strictly - to say that her role in Chicago was just 'sitting on a chair' was a tremendous mistake.

    If she had just come right out and said that yes, she had danced a fair bit but no, she'd no ballroom or latin experience to speak of then perhaps, perhaps, the BBC would be criticised for employing her but Denise herself would not have had to bang on about it.

    yawn, yawn , yawn.

    She danced and gave pleasure to many of us who don't look for the bitter inside track.
  • Options
    penelopesimpsonpenelopesimpson Posts: 14,909
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    My apologies if what you read offended you and you feel as if you were lumped in with others.

    However, no, I'm not a bitter Denise fan. I liked Denise, but I wasn't actually bothered who won. I just wanted to enjoy the show. I'm just ruddy well fed up with all the getting at people on this board for no good reason and the getting at the people who go on this show and (usually) put their heart and soul into it (there have been a few in the past who haven't, I know). It goes on every year and it's getting worse instead of better.

    It's as if people suddenly lose all sense of perspective and restraint and come on here and enjoy villifying people who appear on a light entertainment show. I don't get it. I have never got it. I never will. Maybe that's because I was brought up to believe that if you can't say something good about someone (or something constructive at least), then don't say anything at all. There's nothing constructive about some of what has been said about Denise (and Lisa, come to think of it). A lot of it has just been plain mean for the sake of it.

    I haven't actually seen many people being 'bitter' that Denise didn't win. Maybe two or three have (although again, I haven't seen them), and they're a vocal minority that makes it seem like a lot. Even this thread OP isn't exactly bitter (not when reading the actual words that they wrote). They were asking a question. And most people on here who have professed a liking for her have actually stated that no, she wasn't robbed. The public decide and that's what they did. I was very pleased when Flavia and Louis won. I liked Louis. I thought he was a lovely guy. I liked Dani and Vincent. I enjoyed Denise's dances (although not all of them. She wasn't as good at the latin as she seemed to lose her hips). I enjoyed some of Kimberley's dances too. But I didn't connect with her. Which I freely admit is probably a failing of my own.

    I got angry, I admit it. I've generally, in the past, been quite mannered in what I wrote. But I am so sick of seeing all the nastiness this year (and no, I'm definitely not accusing you of that). I allowed my temper to get the better of me and for that, I am sorry.

    May I just say that that's a great post. Like you I really wasn't fussed who won and I was delighted when it turned out to be Louis. But I have hated every moment of the negativity and vile abuse slung at Denise who has committed no crime other than to fulfil a work commitment to the best of her ability. Thank you Denise, you were terrific and you gave us dance fans a lot of pleasure.
  • Options
    johartukjohartuk Posts: 11,320
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    JohnCurry wrote: »
    Exactly - and produced a showdance that was the best in any year. That alone will have far more effect on her subsequent career than winning the public vote.

    Her showdance didn't appeal to me. Too much emphasis on physicality and lacking warmth and heart. I like showdances that make me smile (e.g. Tom Chambers' 2008 showdance) and are dance based.
  • Options
    johartukjohartuk Posts: 11,320
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    presuming the public are blind then probably not.

    A relentless Twitter campaign of negativity against a talented hard working lady who kept going till the end. Horrible, and the worst thing about SCD so-called followers. Louis was a worthy winner but what Denise had to endure was totally disgusting.

    All the contestants were talented and hard-working and all of the finalists kept going till the end. Much as I like Denise, I'm finding all this "poor Denise"/"Denise was robbed" stuff somewhat bizarre. As I said before, she probably doesn't give a stuff.
  • Options
    JohnCurryJohnCurry Posts: 1,372
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I have never realised before this year how people pay more attention to what is said in the various talk shows than to the actual dancing. Perhaps next year we should do away with the dance show and have a discussion series instead, like Question Time.
  • Options
    madetomeasuremadetomeasure Posts: 8,271
    Forum Member
    Absolutely. She seemed very happy with her lot. I think most 'Denise' fans are in agreement with this.



    The voice of reason as always. :D



    Oh for frack's sake. I haven't seen that many DVO fans bitter about her not winning. This thread was the focus obviously, but the vast majority are reasonable people who have acknowledged that this is a public vote; no-one is therefore 'robbed', they were happy to see her in the final three etc.

    What's really infuriating me now is this type of attitude from people who simply don't like Denise and therefore are using this as a stick now to accuse 'DVO fans' of being rabid and bitter. When this is PATENTLY NOT TRUE. Do me a favour and if you're going to make an argument, at least let it have a basis in FACT.

    There's been lots of posts about that very thing - all driven by Louis being topless and wooing the ladies to vote for him :confused:
  • Options
    tabithakittentabithakitten Posts: 13,871
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    johartuk wrote: »
    All the contestants were talented and hard-working and all of the finalists kept going till the end. Much as I like Denise, I'm finding all this "poor Denise"/"Denise was robbed" stuff somewhat bizarre. As I said before, she probably doesn't give a stuff.

    I personally think that, towards the end at least, she did give a stuff and, perhaps, more than she thought she would. I think she may have entered SCD thinking that she might not cut it in the popularity stakes but that she was experienced enough in the showbiz world to have developed a thick enough skin to cope with it.

    However, it can't be nice to have evidence of your (relative) unpopularity shoved in front of your face in the form of two dance offs; the second of which came when she was fairly high up on the leaderboard so it was obvious that she was near or at the bottom in terms of votes. Her reaction to being in both dance offs showed not (as some have claimed) arrogance at thinking she shouldn't have been there but (imo) real emotion that her worst fears had been founded and that it hurt more than she was expecting it to (that sounds a bit OTT but you know what I mean ;)).

    Denise may have also thought that her obvious work ethic (which I genuinely did admire) and her actual performances (which I was less convinced by) would win voters over. Well I think they did to an extent but not until right at the end.

    I'm actually glad that Denise ended the series on a high. Her final show had her performing dances that really suited her and performing them exceptionally well. Not only that, her enthusiasm really shone through in that final Charleston; probably thinking she was out she could finally give of herself and truly enjoy her final dance.

    She wasn't my favourite and I would never have voted for her but she had a good series, garnered some decent publicity and had one hell of a final show.
  • Options
    David JamesDavid James Posts: 375
    Forum Member
    Louis had that extra X Factor and that's why he deservedly won.
Sign In or Register to comment.