Did you read the post I was actually responding to?
Yep and I bet they all had a qualification in English and could speak some basic English. I mentioned this above, about IELTS. Having the English qualification though is not always sufficient; as I said, students can be taught to pass the exam. But in order to pass you need to know enough! And I don't know of any universities who do not stipulate this as part of standard entry requirements for non-English speaking students.
So how did they manage to sit their exams if they can't even put a sentence together, as you say?
I don't know as they only needed to get a grade in four modules in the final year I guess they bluffed through with group projects academics doing the work for them and essay farm sites. your very niave at how corrupt university has become.
Yep and I bet they all had a qualification in English and could speak some basic English. I mentioned this above, about IELTS. Having the English qualification though is not always sufficient; as I said, students can be taught to pass the exam. But in order to pass you need to know enough! And I don't know of any universities who do not stipulate this as part of standard entry requirements for non-English speaking students.
What do you think should be the alternative way to assess students' English language abilities?
I don't know as they only needed to get a grade in four modules in the final year I guess they bluffed through with group projects academics doing the work for them and essay farm sites. your very niave at how corrupt university has become.
I can't speak for your university but at the university I work for, every essay is checked by some software program for plagiarism and there is a formal process for plagiarism. It's not perfect but most universities adopt a similar stance.
Perhaps though their writing skills were better. Not intending to have a go at you here but it could be the case
I stuck at the group project with them for four weeks a group project which had a presentation element . In the end you couldnt work on a group project the language was such a barrier. there was not just minor communication problems.
I can't speak for your university but at the university I work for, every essay is checked by some software program for plagiarism and there is a formal process for plagiarism. It's not perfect but most universities adopt a similar stance.
We had essay checking software for plagarism I wonder how rigidly enforced it was for international students.
If as mad_dude says they cannot string a sentence together in English, how are they supposed to pass?
What do you think should be the alternative way to assess students' English language abilities?
If I knew that I'd be rich I think. It is a recognised problem for university Admissions departments. Much the same as reading someone's CV I think - you don't always get what you see on the tin.
You could interview each student but how do you justify the time and the cost in an environment where money is tight and spending is constantly cut?
I can't speak for your university but at the university I work for, every essay is checked by some software program for plagiarism and there is a formal process for plagiarism. It's not perfect but most universities adopt a similar stance.
Yes Universities are extremely strict about plagiarism, they use special software/programs to check all the essays.
We had essay checking software for plagarism I wonder how rigidly enforced it was for international students.
I think if you think that an even playing field was not adopted across all students you need to contact your Vice Chancellor and complain because I just can't believe that any university would try to get away with it as blatantly as that.
I think if you think that an even playing field was not adopted across all students you need to contact your Vice Chancellor and complain because I just can't believe that any university would try to get away with it as blatantly as that.
The vice-chancellor at our university published a message on the university website urging students to give positive marks in the NSS. when a tape recording of academics appeared on the Times Higher education suppliment saying the same thing.The same vice chancellor said it was an isolated incident and did not reflect the ethos of the university. Vice chancellors are in on it usually.
OK, so if it IS as mad_dude says, and they can't speak English at all... (Apart from one or two words)...
How do they write essays and sit examinations?
As I said:
Yep and I bet they all had a qualification in English and could speak some basic English. I mentioned this above, about IELTS. Having the English qualification though is not always sufficient; as I said, students can be taught to pass the exam. But in order to pass you need to know enough! And I don't know of any universities who do not stipulate this as part of standard entry requirements for non-English speaking students.
The vice-chancellor at our university published a message on the university website urging students to give positive marks in the NSS. when a tape recording of academics appeared on the Times Higher education suppliment saying the same thing.The same vice chancellor said it was an isolated incident and did not reflect the ethos of the university. Vice chancellors are in on it usually.
I am so sorry that you have such a cynical view of your university. Why don't you submit a Freedom of Information request to your legal department to find out if your suspicions have some bearing?
All universities want to get great feedback on the NSS. It's no secret.
Comments
I did a group project with them. It became obvious they couldnt speak english.
So how did they manage to sit their exams?
Yep and I bet they all had a qualification in English and could speak some basic English. I mentioned this above, about IELTS. Having the English qualification though is not always sufficient; as I said, students can be taught to pass the exam. But in order to pass you need to know enough! And I don't know of any universities who do not stipulate this as part of standard entry requirements for non-English speaking students.
I don't know as they only needed to get a grade in four modules in the final year I guess they bluffed through with group projects academics doing the work for them and essay farm sites. your very niave at how corrupt university has become.
Perhaps though their writing skills were better. Not intending to have a go at you here but it could be the case
What do you think should be the alternative way to assess students' English language abilities?
I can't speak for your university but at the university I work for, every essay is checked by some software program for plagiarism and there is a formal process for plagiarism. It's not perfect but most universities adopt a similar stance.
Must be a poor University if you can pass an exam without being able to string a sentence together, or if you only know a few words of English.
In University we are expected to write thousands of words a year for essays and exams.
If as mad_dude says they cannot string a sentence together in English, how are they supposed to pass?
I stuck at the group project with them for four weeks a group project which had a presentation element . In the end you couldnt work on a group project the language was such a barrier. there was not just minor communication problems.
We had essay checking software for plagarism I wonder how rigidly enforced it was for international students.
Money talks
If I knew that I'd be rich I think. It is a recognised problem for university Admissions departments. Much the same as reading someone's CV I think - you don't always get what you see on the tin.
You could interview each student but how do you justify the time and the cost in an environment where money is tight and spending is constantly cut?
To clarify: I meant the IELTS exam. Not any university exams.
Gosh this is like a conspiracy theory!!
IELTS is often administered by a foreign institution. the universities turn a blind eye to its abuse. It happens.
Yes Universities are extremely strict about plagiarism, they use special software/programs to check all the essays.
A conspiracy theory picked up by the BBC.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7358528.stm
I think if you think that an even playing field was not adopted across all students you need to contact your Vice Chancellor and complain because I just can't believe that any university would try to get away with it as blatantly as that.
I definitely think you should stop talking about 'universities' in general.
Plus as far as I know, you can only take an IELTS exam at a British Council office.
OK, so if it IS as mad_dude says, and they can't speak English at all... (Apart from one or two words)...
How do they write essays and sit examinations?
The vice-chancellor at our university published a message on the university website urging students to give positive marks in the NSS. when a tape recording of academics appeared on the Times Higher education suppliment saying the same thing.The same vice chancellor said it was an isolated incident and did not reflect the ethos of the university. Vice chancellors are in on it usually.
No it's not. It's administered and marked by the British Council.
Read the BBC article. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7358528.stm
I have explained that a combination of doing nothing in group projects academics writing the assessments for them and Essay sites allow them to pass.
and assessed in an overseas institution allows plenty of room for fixing for those that can afford it.
As I said:
Yep and I bet they all had a qualification in English and could speak some basic English. I mentioned this above, about IELTS. Having the English qualification though is not always sufficient; as I said, students can be taught to pass the exam. But in order to pass you need to know enough! And I don't know of any universities who do not stipulate this as part of standard entry requirements for non-English speaking students.
I am so sorry that you have such a cynical view of your university. Why don't you submit a Freedom of Information request to your legal department to find out if your suspicions have some bearing?
All universities want to get great feedback on the NSS. It's no secret.
No, mad_dude said they cannot speak English at ALL.
I've quoted it already and repeated this several times.
So you say...but having travelled overseas recruiting overseas students I can honestly tell you that I have never seen any practice like that.