Oscar Pistorius Bail Hearing Begins

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  • Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
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    JoTaylor wrote: »
    I think that's something that we've lost sight of - whether he intended to kill her or not even if it was an intruder he was capable of being trigger happy without a right lot of reason and would have still killed someone,

    Exactly. His actions were not self defence even if it was a burglar. He had no idea who was in the bathroom (so he claims), yet fires recklessly through the door.

    If he was in the home with his girlfriend, anyone in their right mind finding someone in the bathroom would think firstly that it was the girlfriend.

    He's got a gun, and a locked door. It was easy enough to check where she was.
  • PsychosisPsychosis Posts: 18,591
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    chrissy101 wrote: »
    According to some in here, she was half asleep so probably didn't feel the need to respond to his screams of terror. Baffling logic, but than again so is his whole defense.

    THAT part of the scenario makes perfect sense. Unless he shouted "there's an intruder IN THE BATHROOM" she might have assumed that the intruder was in the hallway or downstairs or outside the window. She might have considered it better to be silent and hide in the bathroom so the intruder doesn't know she's there.

    Her part of that theory makes sense. It's his that doesn't.
  • Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
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    Psychosis wrote: »
    THAT part of the scenario makes perfect sense. Unless he shouted "there's an intruder IN THE BATHROOM" she might have assumed that the intruder was in the hallway or downstairs or outside the window. She might have considered it better to be silent and hide in the bathroom so the intruder doesn't know she's there.

    Her part of that theory makes sense. It's his that doesn't.

    He suspects the intruder is in the bathroom, so at what point could she have got out of bed, and into the bathroom without him knowing?
  • LH1LH1 Posts: 2,394
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    chrissy101 wrote: »
    According to some in here, she was half asleep so probably didn't feel the need to respond to his screams of terror. Baffling logic, but than again so is his whole defense.

    If I was half asleep and my OH was screaming in terror I'd wake up pretty sharpish and yes I would respond because I'd be behind a locked door. I find it implausible that she didn't respond to his screaming.
  • PsychosisPsychosis Posts: 18,591
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    He suspects the intruder is in the bathroom, so at what point could she have got out of bed, and into the bathroom without him knowing?

    What? I don't know what you're asking me.

    I'm saying that from HER side, it makes sense. She goes to the bathroom, she hears Oscar shouting that there's an intruder, she's scared and decides to stay in the bedroom until he's dealt with it.l

    No part of HIS story makes sense, but in the intruder story it makes sense that SHE would stay in the bathroom.
  • Ada RabbleAda Rabble Posts: 3,317
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    He suspects the intruder is in the bathroom, so at what point could she have got out of bed, and into the bathroom without him knowing?

    When he went to get the fan
  • LH1LH1 Posts: 2,394
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    Psychosis wrote: »
    What? I don't know what you're asking me.

    I'm saying that from HER side, it makes sense. She goes to the bathroom, she hears Oscar shouting that there's an intruder, she's scared and decides to stay in the bedroom until he's dealt with it.l

    No part of HIS story makes sense, but in the intruder story it makes sense that SHE would stay in the bathroom.

    Yes and she'd speak up so he knew where she was because she'd be concerned that she may get shot if she kept quiet because surely she'd hear him approaching the bathroom door if he was screaming in terror.
  • PinkPetuniaPinkPetunia Posts: 5,479
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    His story simply doesnt make sense . No one in their right mind shoots through a bathroom door that is attached to the bedroom you share with a partner without bellowing out to make sure its not the partner in there .
    He cant argue being half asleep as he was alread awake enough to get the fan and shut the balacony and the curtains and get his gun .So he was wide awake , hears a noise in the bathroom he shares with his girlfriend and blasts her to death without checking and being sure it wasnt her ?
    I dont buy that , I dont care how stressed he was , he either knew it was her or he was so damn reckless and careless and daft he didnt even check . One is murder and the other is also a crime IMO .
  • PsychosisPsychosis Posts: 18,591
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    LH1 wrote: »
    Yes and she'd speak up so he knew where she was because she'd be concerned that she may get shot if she kept quiet because surely she'd hear him approaching the bathroom door if he was screaming in terror.

    But why would she know, if the door was closed, that he was aiming at the bathroom door? She would assume (like we're all assuming right now, me included) that Oscar is smart enough to realise that she's not in bed and is in the bathroom. It probably didn't even occur to her that he might think she was the one in the bathroom. She had no way of knowing that he was aiming at the bathroom door.

    HE should have known that she was in there.

    SHE might not have realised that he didn't.
  • KapellmeisterKapellmeister Posts: 41,322
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    He suspects the intruder is in the bathroom, so at what point could she have got out of bed, and into the bathroom without him knowing?

    When he went out onto the balcony to get the fan. IMO, it was the act of his getting up to do this that awoke the girlfriend and, while he was on the balcony, she got up and went into the bathroom/toilet.
  • Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
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    Ada Rabble wrote: »
    When he went to get the fan

    So rather than keeping this maniac covered from the other side of a locked door, he goes elsewhere, allowing the burglar to get out of the bathroom.

    He must have tried the door to know it was locked in the first place, so how would she get in if it was locked by a burglar?

    His story is ridiculous.

    If he's shouted to her, he would expect to get an answer, and ensure her safety. Afterall, the crook is locked in the bathroom.

    He's then gone blasting away through a door, with no idea of whether he has hit anyone, or concern that this burglar might start firing back.

    Suggests he knew who was in there, and his actions were in rage.
  • Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
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    When he went out onto the balcony to get the fan. IMO, it was the act of his getting up to do this that awoke the girlfriend and, while he was on the balcony, she got up and went into the bathroom/toilet.

    So, rather than assuming his girlfriend had gone to the bathroom, he starts firing shots into there without establishing where she was?
  • LH1LH1 Posts: 2,394
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    Psychosis wrote: »
    But why would she know, if the door was closed, that he was aiming at the bathroom door? She would assume (like we're all assuming right now, me included) that Oscar is smart enough to realise that she's not in bed and is in the bathroom. It probably didn't even occur to her that he might think she was the one in the bathroom. She had no way of knowing that he was aiming at the bathroom door.

    HE should have known that she was in there.

    SHE might not have realised that he didn't.

    She knew he'd be armed. Surely that's enough. One thing is for sure though - he isn't smart.
  • KapellmeisterKapellmeister Posts: 41,322
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    So rather than keeping this maniac covered from the other side of a locked door, he goes elsewhere, allowing the burglar to get out of the bathroom.

    He must have tried the door to know it was locked in the first place, so how would she get in if it was locked by a burglar?

    His story is ridiculous.

    If he's shouted to her, he would expect to get an answer, and ensure her safety. Afterall, the crook is locked in the bathroom.

    He's then gone blasting away through a door, with no idea of whether he has hit anyone, or concern that this burglar might start firing back.

    Suggests he knew who was in there, and his actions were in rage.

    I don't understand any of these points :confused:
  • hornbeamhornbeam Posts: 9,483
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    When he went out onto the balcony to get the fan. IMO, it was the act of his getting up to do this that awoke the girlfriend and, while he was on the balcony, she got up and went into the bathroom/toilet.


    agree
  • BungitinBungitin Posts: 5,356
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    I thought this was one of the most securist estates in South Africa. OP was more tooled up than the average American.
    Plenty of scope for accidental shooting 4 times.
  • Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
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    I don't understand any of these points :confused:

    The whole scenario is ridiculous, and confusing.

    If he thinks someone is in the bathroom, with the door locked, he has it contained. Why would he have to start blasting away?

    Establishing his girlfriend was safe, and able to alert the Police was the obvious action.
  • LH1LH1 Posts: 2,394
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    So, rather than assuming his girlfriend had gone to the bathroom, he starts firing shots into there without establishing where she was?

    Yep that's it exactly.
  • KapellmeisterKapellmeister Posts: 41,322
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    So, rather than assuming his girlfriend had gone to the bathroom, he starts firing shots into there without establishing where she was?

    Yes, because he thought she was in the bedroom.

    I appreciate that people don't believe a word of Oscar's story, but IMO it is totally plausible. It's not necessarily excusable but it is plausible. I think most of the questions raised by the prosecution can be easily countered. The thing that will clinch a conviction will probably be the forensic evidence as the other evidence seems quite weak, from what we know at least.

    Was he stupid and irresponsible, acting on a paranoid fear of being robbed? Or did he murder her intentionally? The two questions are miles apart.

    And perhaps most importantly, the one thing totally missing from any evidence at the moment is a genuine motive.
  • Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
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    hornbeam wrote: »
    agree

    So, did the girlfriend never go to the toilet in the night before? Why did he shoot her this time?
  • PinkPetuniaPinkPetunia Posts: 5,479
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    When he went out onto the balcony to get the fan. IMO, it was the act of his getting up to do this that awoke the girlfriend and, while he was on the balcony, she got up and went into the bathroom/toilet.

    So he hears a noise and without even bothering to check where the person is that actually shares that bathroom he goes in a blasts her to death .?What daft eejit would do that ?

    Ih and his motive ? Rage , domestic rage .
  • Ella NutElla Nut Posts: 8,891
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    When he went out onto the balcony to get the fan. IMO, it was the act of his getting up to do this that awoke the girlfriend and, while he was on the balcony, she got up and went into the bathroom/toilet.

    And without getting ANY response from his girlfriend after he claims to have told her/shouted to her to call the police, that there was an intruder in the toilet, just blindly shoots through the door? We are really being asked to swallow this crap that he didn't even think for a second that it could be her in there?
  • KapellmeisterKapellmeister Posts: 41,322
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    The whole scenario is ridiculous, and confusing.

    If he thinks someone is in the bathroom, with the door locked, he has it contained. Why would he have to start blasting away?


    Establishing his girlfriend was safe, and able to alert the Police was the obvious action.

    Because it's South Africa and violent crime is rampant, and he had no idea that the intruder wasn't also armed and was about to start shooting through the door too.
  • Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
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    Yes, because he thought she was in the bedroom.

    I appreciate that people don't believe a word of Oscar's story, but IMO it is totally plausible. It's not necessarily excusable but it is plausible. I think most of the questions raised by the prosecution can be easily countered. The thing that will clinch a conviction will probably be the forensic evidence as the other evidence seems quite weak, from what we know at least.

    Was he stupid and irresponsible, acting on a paranoid fear of being robbed? Or did he murder her intentionally? The two questions are miles apart.

    And perhaps most importantly, the one thing totally missing from any evidence at the moment is a genuine motive.

    Domestic rage. Any Police Officer, and many victims will tell you how common that is.

    Most murders here are domestically motivated.
  • Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
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    Because it's South Africa and violent crime is rampant, and he had no idea that the intruder wasn't also armed and was about to start shooting through the door too.

    So how hard was it to stand away from the door, keeping it covered, whilst establishing the girlfriend was not in there.

    Even in SA, the chances of a person in the bathroom in the middle of the night are much more likely to be an occupant, than a burglar.
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