My apathy started with the landslide victories which swung from Labour to Conservative, so that the result, as opinion polls predicted, always seemed a foregone conclusion.
Instead of traditionally spending the first two years in office undoing what the previous lot did, the parties all became the same, with Blair's Labour the New Con's.
Whoever got into power didn't do what their manifesto promised. And even if they tried to an unelected chamber would overrule, delay or render useless any Act the elected chamber created.
We still don't have a secret ballot, even though that's how it's billed, and the rest of Europe does. When Labour tried to get everyone voting by post, trailed in my area, the voting slip and envelope noticeably had no less than 4 personally-identifying bar codes on them. There are other ways of auditing an election besides building databases of how people vote in a country like this with an unhealthy obsession for state surveillance.
The expenses row.
The lack of political 'characters' who engaged the public by articulately speaking with passion and vision. If they don't seem to care like they did, why should anyone else.
So give me someone to believe in, someone who'll do what they say they will, and a secret ballot, and I'll scrawl an X again.
People who don't participate in the voting system at least to the extent of being @r$ed to turn up at a polling station once every 4 years or so, (what they do there once they have registered is another matter) over 3 consecutive general elections, should lose the right to refer their problems to their local MP for their assistance.
I vote. And when I think of the sacrifices made so I can, I do include the suffragettes in that. It does tend to be for the least worst, rather than the best candidate.
This thread made me think, though, and I looked at something.
Everyone says that Wakefield is a "safe seat" for Labour. They only won it by 1600 votes last time and were around 10,000 ahead of the third place candidate. Over a third of the electorate - around 25000, at a rough count - didn't vote. That's more than enough to swing the seat for either candidate against Labour, IF they voted. So, those that say your vote wouldn't matter - it might matter more than you think!
People who don't participate in the voting system at least to the extent of being @r$ed to turn up at a polling station once every 4 years or so, (what they do there once they have registered is another matter) over 3 consecutive general elections, should lose the right to refer their problems to their local MP for their assistance.
Utter bollocks.
People's democratic rights cannot be taken away on such a ludicrous whim.
People's democratic rights cannot be taken away on such a ludicrous whim.
Get a bloody grip!
MPs are the consequence of elections. If no-one votes there are no MPs to represent your interests with your personal problems. If you choose not to engage in elections then don't whine about the consequences of your non-participation in the democratic process. Rights linked to obligations, rather than your "something for nothing take, take, take" attitude. If you want to take from the system you have to be prepared to contribute by engaging in the process to the extent of getting off your metaphorical fat arse and walking down to your local polling station one day every 4-5 years. Hardly an unreasonably big ask under the circumstances. We all have the right to vote because of the struggle and sacrifice of millions of ordinary people over hundreds of years to get universal suffrage. To say you're not prepared to lift the smallest of fingers in terms of participation is to spit in their faces.
Other countries make voting compulsory and fine those who don't. How "undemocratic" is that.
I live in an extremely safe seat so voting against that party often seems pointless. But I still vote, since I realise that the reason it's a safe seat is because a big chunk of the constituency feel the same way and then fail to vote, making the safe seat a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
MPs are the consequence of elections. If no-one votes there are no MPs to represent your interests with your personal problems. If you choose not to engage in elections then don't whine about the consequences of your non-participation in the democratic process. Rights linked to obligations, rather than your "something for nothing take, take, take" attitude. If you want to take from the system you have to be prepared to contribute by engaging in the process to the extent of getting off your metaphorical fat arse and walking down to your local polling station one day every 4-5 years. Hardly an unreasonably big ask under the circumstances. We all have the right to vote because of the struggle and sacrifice of millions of ordinary people over hundreds of years to get universal suffrage. To say you're not prepared to lift the smallest of fingers in terms of participation is to spit in their faces.
Other countries make voting compulsory and fine those who don't. How "undemocratic" is that.
Very. The whole point of a Democracy is that people have the choice of whether or not to vote.
I always do but next time I will be really hard pushed to put a X next to any of them.
Not that it really matters it's a safe Tory seat.
<sigh> While I can well understand the sentiment, the problem with this is that apathy breeds more apathy and disenfranchisement.
I really do think it is time for a party that says "Vote for us if you want to be involved in democracy but reject the concept of the wasted vote". A party which campaigns, exclusively, for pure proportional representation. Not stupid systems like AV, a system where 20% of the vote means 20% of the seats. Fairness, in other words.
The problem with people not bothering because their seat is safe, is that it gives the impression that people don't care, and I don't think this is true.
I live in an extremely safe seat so voting against that party often seems pointless. But I still vote, since I realise that the reason it's a safe seat is because a big chunk of the constituency feel the same way and then fail to vote, making the safe seat a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Quite, and I am pleased that there are people out there who do this. I'd rather people voted for the BNP out of spite than did not vote at all due to the voting system.
Have not voted in a long time. Although I should, as the seat was won in the last four elections by a very small margin (> 4000).
This should not be a good reason for voting. Paradoxically, no voter should be given this level of power, knowing that if they and a few hundred others get off their backsides, they can make a grossly inflated difference to the overall balance of power.
MPs are the consequence of elections. If no-one votes there are no MPs to represent your interests with your personal problems. If you choose not to engage in elections then don't whine about the consequences of your non-participation in the democratic process. Rights linked to obligations, rather than your "something for nothing take, take, take" attitude. If you want to take from the system you have to be prepared to contribute by engaging in the process to the extent of getting off your metaphorical fat arse and walking down to your local polling station one day every 4-5 years. Hardly an unreasonably big ask under the circumstances. We all have the right to vote because of the struggle and sacrifice of millions of ordinary people over hundreds of years to get universal suffrage. To say you're not prepared to lift the smallest of fingers in terms of participation is to spit in their faces.
Other countries make voting compulsory and fine those who don't. How "undemocratic" is that.
Emotional drivel.
Voting is a democratic right that I can assert as and when I choose.
MPs are the consequence of elections. If no-one votes there are no MPs to represent your interests with your personal problems. If you choose not to engage in elections then don't whine about the consequences of your non-participation in the democratic process. Rights linked to obligations, rather than your "something for nothing take, take, take" attitude. If you want to take from the system you have to be prepared to contribute by engaging in the process to the extent of getting off your metaphorical fat arse and walking down to your local polling station one day every 4-5 years. Hardly an unreasonably big ask under the circumstances. We all have the right to vote because of the struggle and sacrifice of millions of ordinary people over hundreds of years to get universal suffrage. To say you're not prepared to lift the smallest of fingers in terms of participation is to spit in their faces.
Other countries make voting compulsory and fine those who don't. How "undemocratic" is that.
Anyone who believes our "system of democracy" is anything more than a soap opera for grasping self serving egotists to climb up the ladders of a party political system that operates on the anachronisms of last century should be tested for the onset of dementia.
I have no interest in the three mainstream parties - hence I will spoil my vote whenever possible. In the general election other parties rarely stand here because it's a uber-safe Labour seat. What I do find amusing (and also sad) about the whole thing is that large swathes of people still carry on voting Labour and Tories even though they have screwed up big time in the past.
I do think Charles Bukowski has a point when he said, "The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting".
I vote every year - apart from the first time after I turned 18 as my dad didn't put me on the form that came in, so I wasn't registered to vote but didn't know until the cards came in for my mum and dad.
I have never missed a vote since I was first eligible in 1973.
I have never spoiled a paper, but I don't see that as a waste, if there are a large number of spoiled papers it can make quite a statement.
Indeed, Teddybear99, and I'd like to see a "None of the above" option on ballot papers so that voters can actively express their discontent with the three main parties.
I am so heartily sick of the three main parties, their posturing and lack of action on practical issues such as the shortage of affordable housing, lack of action over rip-off utilities, high loan interest rates, etc. that at the last local election I spoiled my ballot paper by drawing a new box with the pencil, writing in Toilet Duck as the new candidate and then voting for it with an 'X'.
No, it's worse. Because you're wasting the time of the poor sap who has to count/read your vote only to see that it's spoiled.
I think I've only ever not voted once, and that was many years ago.
No it isn't. It's a perfectly valid statement to indicate that you're extremely dissatisfied with the performance (or lack thereof) of the three main parties. I cannot in all conscience vote either Tory, Lib Dem or New Labour after what they've done in office.
It is also far better than complete apathy and not bothering to vote at all.
MPs are the consequence of elections. If no-one votes there are no MPs to represent your interests with your personal problems. If you choose not to engage in elections then don't whine about the consequences of your non-participation in the democratic process. Rights linked to obligations, rather than your "something for nothing take, take, take" attitude. If you want to take from the system you have to be prepared to contribute by engaging in the process to the extent of getting off your metaphorical fat arse and walking down to your local polling station one day every 4-5 years. Hardly an unreasonably big ask under the circumstances. We all have the right to vote because of the struggle and sacrifice of millions of ordinary people over hundreds of years to get universal suffrage. To say you're not prepared to lift the smallest of fingers in terms of participation is to spit in their faces.
Other countries make voting compulsory and fine those who don't. How "undemocratic" is that.
Not at all. We have evidence that people were 'encouraged' to participate in the first recorded democracy.
Democracy is the voice of the people. If the people cannot be assed making their voices heard then democracy cannot work.
No it isn't. It's a perfectly valid statement to indicate that you're extremely dissatisfied with the performance (or lack thereof) of the three main parties.
In your opinion. In my opinion, it demonstrates ignorance and stupidity. Nothing more, nothing less.
In your opinion. In my opinion, it demonstrates ignorance and stupidity. Nothing more, nothing less.
You are not going to tell me to compulsorily vote for any of the three big parties!
lf faced with only a choice of the three main parties then I will not vote for any of them. If I lived in Scotland where there would almost certainly be an SNP option as well, then I would readily vote for them given what they are doing in government there.
Comments
My apathy started with the landslide victories which swung from Labour to Conservative, so that the result, as opinion polls predicted, always seemed a foregone conclusion.
Instead of traditionally spending the first two years in office undoing what the previous lot did, the parties all became the same, with Blair's Labour the New Con's.
Whoever got into power didn't do what their manifesto promised. And even if they tried to an unelected chamber would overrule, delay or render useless any Act the elected chamber created.
We still don't have a secret ballot, even though that's how it's billed, and the rest of Europe does. When Labour tried to get everyone voting by post, trailed in my area, the voting slip and envelope noticeably had no less than 4 personally-identifying bar codes on them. There are other ways of auditing an election besides building databases of how people vote in a country like this with an unhealthy obsession for state surveillance.
The expenses row.
The lack of political 'characters' who engaged the public by articulately speaking with passion and vision. If they don't seem to care like they did, why should anyone else.
So give me someone to believe in, someone who'll do what they say they will, and a secret ballot, and I'll scrawl an X again.
This thread made me think, though, and I looked at something.
Everyone says that Wakefield is a "safe seat" for Labour. They only won it by 1600 votes last time and were around 10,000 ahead of the third place candidate. Over a third of the electorate - around 25000, at a rough count - didn't vote. That's more than enough to swing the seat for either candidate against Labour, IF they voted. So, those that say your vote wouldn't matter - it might matter more than you think!
Utter bollocks.
People's democratic rights cannot be taken away on such a ludicrous whim.
Get a bloody grip!
MPs are the consequence of elections. If no-one votes there are no MPs to represent your interests with your personal problems. If you choose not to engage in elections then don't whine about the consequences of your non-participation in the democratic process. Rights linked to obligations, rather than your "something for nothing take, take, take" attitude. If you want to take from the system you have to be prepared to contribute by engaging in the process to the extent of getting off your metaphorical fat arse and walking down to your local polling station one day every 4-5 years. Hardly an unreasonably big ask under the circumstances. We all have the right to vote because of the struggle and sacrifice of millions of ordinary people over hundreds of years to get universal suffrage. To say you're not prepared to lift the smallest of fingers in terms of participation is to spit in their faces.
Other countries make voting compulsory and fine those who don't. How "undemocratic" is that.
Very. The whole point of a Democracy is that people have the choice of whether or not to vote.
<sigh> While I can well understand the sentiment, the problem with this is that apathy breeds more apathy and disenfranchisement.
I really do think it is time for a party that says "Vote for us if you want to be involved in democracy but reject the concept of the wasted vote". A party which campaigns, exclusively, for pure proportional representation. Not stupid systems like AV, a system where 20% of the vote means 20% of the seats. Fairness, in other words.
The problem with people not bothering because their seat is safe, is that it gives the impression that people don't care, and I don't think this is true.
Quite, and I am pleased that there are people out there who do this. I'd rather people voted for the BNP out of spite than did not vote at all due to the voting system.
This should not be a good reason for voting. Paradoxically, no voter should be given this level of power, knowing that if they and a few hundred others get off their backsides, they can make a grossly inflated difference to the overall balance of power.
Voting is a democratic right that I can assert as and when I choose.
Anyone who believes our "system of democracy" is anything more than a soap opera for grasping self serving egotists to climb up the ladders of a party political system that operates on the anachronisms of last century should be tested for the onset of dementia.
I do think Charles Bukowski has a point when he said, "The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting".
I vote for Dave and his chum George
Indeed, Teddybear99, and I'd like to see a "None of the above" option on ballot papers so that voters can actively express their discontent with the three main parties.
I am so heartily sick of the three main parties, their posturing and lack of action on practical issues such as the shortage of affordable housing, lack of action over rip-off utilities, high loan interest rates, etc. that at the last local election I spoiled my ballot paper by drawing a new box with the pencil, writing in Toilet Duck as the new candidate and then voting for it with an 'X'.
I think I've only ever not voted once, and that was many years ago.
No it isn't. It's a perfectly valid statement to indicate that you're extremely dissatisfied with the performance (or lack thereof) of the three main parties. I cannot in all conscience vote either Tory, Lib Dem or New Labour after what they've done in office.
It is also far better than complete apathy and not bothering to vote at all.
If you have evidence of that pass it to the electoral commission as it is illegal to destroy ballot papers cast.
Not at all. We have evidence that people were 'encouraged' to participate in the first recorded democracy.
Democracy is the voice of the people. If the people cannot be assed making their voices heard then democracy cannot work.
I disagree. In the absence of a 'none of the above' option people who dislike the candidates standing have little other choice.
Abstaining allows politicians to claim voter apathy and move the blame to the electorate rather than having to look to themselves.
You are not going to tell me to compulsorily vote for any of the three big parties!
lf faced with only a choice of the three main parties then I will not vote for any of them. If I lived in Scotland where there would almost certainly be an SNP option as well, then I would readily vote for them given what they are doing in government there.