Just to look at this bit, £2.50 tip per drink at 12.5% presumably means you were paying £20 a drink... Sounds like a pretty high end cocktail place to me, even by London standards! The dollar tip per drink in the US is usually on a bottle of beer or similar, generally costing considerably less, and as a percentage probably not much different. It is generally a given that the bartender gets a bigger tip for making something 'complicated' like a cocktail over there anyway, so I think your comparison wasn't quite complete.
Not that I really want to overdo the comparison as that sort of expectation of tipping really is something I don't want to see exported to the UK. Though as with a few other crappy customs we could do without like black Friday, I think that ship may have already sailed...
Good point, I never even calculated the price of the drink.
Either the OP is mistaken or they were drinking somewhere extremely posh.
Just to look at this bit, £2.50 tip per drink at 12.5% presumably means you were paying £20 a drink... Sounds like a pretty high end cocktail place to me, even by London standards! The dollar tip per drink in the US is usually on a bottle of beer or similar, generally costing considerably less, and as a percentage probably not much different. It is generally a given that the bartender gets a bigger tip for making something 'complicated' like a cocktail over there anyway, so I think your comparison wasn't quite complete.
Not that I really want to overdo the comparison as that sort of expectation of tipping really is something I don't want to see exported to the UK. Though as with a few other crappy customs we could do without like black Friday, I think that ship may have already sailed...
That is completely right.
Standard in the US is a dollar for a beer or glass of wine, but $2 for a cocktail. It's 20% min on food, and last year I had a couple of higher end places actually give 3 figures at the end of the bill to chose from. 20%, 22.5% ("recommended") and 25%.
I eat out several times a week, and am so used to this now I just accept it as the norm. I do understand those who find it objectionable, however, and I'm just waiting for the 12.5% to make the jump to 15, which it will. A few years ago 10 was the expected norm.
If the service is good and no service charge is included, I will usually tip a min of 12.5%.
The OP doesn't state that the £2.50 tip was per drink. It could have been for the round of 2 drinks.
It wasn't per drink. We had one cocktail and something else, I can't recall exactly but was basically a shot of something and a mixer. The cocktail was a bit more than I would normally pay but it was a special night out so we picked one of the more expensive ones.
Either way, a £2.50 tip for 2 drinks in my view is way ott.
Thanks for coming back to this OP. I agree £2.50 surcharge on drinks that already have a huge margin on them is a little bit obscene. Give me the pub culture anyday. Walk to bar. Pay at bar. Collect drink. It's one of the things I miss about Blighty when travelling anywhere.
I don't drink beer, but I've seen guys leaving $1.00 per beer years ago, maybe 9 or 10 years back.
Now they seem to be leaving $2.00 per beer.
My wife and I were in the Union Square Café, E. 16th. Street NYC just before Christmas.
Cocktails were $14.00 a pop, I don't mean gin and tonics, or vodka and orange, a little more exotic than that, but not Del. Boy stuff, with umbrellas.
We had 2 each, the tab came to $56.00 plus tax.
I don't factor the tax into the tip, so I gave the bartender $9 on top of the bill, he was happy and wished us a Merry Christmas, I was happy too, a win-win.
I was visiting London over the weekend with my other half and we noticed a lot more places were automatically adding a service charge onto the bill. These were independent places, not chains as far as we could tell. What annoyed us even more was the fact it was 12.5%, not 10% which I assumed was always the normal amount in this country. When did this become 'a thing' to do?
One cocktail bar we went into was table service and they added 12.5% onto the bill Even in the US you normally just give a dollar tip per drink, but this was around £2.50 extra, way more than I would give normally.
On our final night the restaurant we ate had rather poor service to be honest. They didn't have our booking so stuck us on some awful table, the waitress spilled water on the table and didn't even make an effort to clean it up. They took away our drinks when there was something still left in it and so on. Was just awful. When we asked for the bill we told the girl not to add service charge, she looked shocked and we hated saying it.
It should be up to the customer to decide what the tip is, it shouldn't be forced upon everyone. I just hate the way this country is slowly becoming Americanized when it comes to tips.
Just because they add it to the bill doesn't mean that you have to pay it. It is still voluntary, it is just that bars and restaurants know that most people will just pay it.
Service staff usually prefer to work with a percentage of wages from tips because they earn a lot more than working from a base hourly rate. This does mean that they may have to work harder but the service is better, the wages are better, and it means employers are able to hire more staff.
I recall one restaurant in the US where the service was awful. We were left sitting for 20 minutes before they took our order. The food wasn't piping hot, the waiter ignored us when we asked for more beers.
So we left a tip of 50 cents (bill was about $60), so that he would get the message that we didn't forget to tip, we just left what we thought the service was worth.
I know of at least two restaurants in Edinburgh where there is a sign that says "please do not tip the staff - they are only doing their job if they deliver perfect service"
Tipping is a bizarre outdated custom that I wish we'd move away from, as others have pointed out, we have a minimum wage.
Also it's bizarre the way we tip for some things and not others, many tip in pubs where you order your food at the bar, get your own cutlery and they just bring you your food out, a 1min job! Same goes for a 10min sit in the barbers chair. Coach drivers on coach trips often get a 'whip round' yet no one does the same for a pilot who has a much harder and often longer job, the taxi driver often gets one and not the train driver, it's all a madness
I spend a couple of months a year in the US and although I don't like it I tend to follow their tipping culture in a "when in Rome" type of way. When calculating the tip though I deduct the cost of the wine if I've had a bottle. No way am I tipping on something that's already been marked up by 300-400%.
It wasn't per drink. We had one cocktail and something else, I can't recall exactly but was basically a shot of something and a mixer. The cocktail was a bit more than I would normally pay but it was a special night out so we picked one of the more expensive ones.
Either way, a £2.50 tip for 2 drinks in my view is way ott.
So not that much more than the U.S, then? Infact last time I was in the U.S. it was customary to tip 15% on your bill, not per drink.
A service charge, optional or otherwise, should never be added. I also disagree with card machines being set to ask for a tip/gratitude before entering your pin.
I quite agree. Especially ridiculous being asked that after breakfast at a Premier Inn where you serve yourself! Got round that now by paying in advance at reception.
Just because they add it to the bill doesn't mean that you have to pay it. It is still voluntary, it is just that bars and restaurants know that most people will just pay it.
Yes I know, hence why in the post you quoted we told them not to add the service charge But the point is a lot of people may not ask that, as it puts them in an uncomfortable position (I know it did for me). Why should anyone after a nice night out be made to feel like 'the bad guy' and tell them not to add a tip?
So not that much more than the U.S, then? Infact last time I was in the U.S. it was customary to tip 15% on your bill, not per drink.
But still more, or there about's what you pay in the US. The point is a £2.50 tip for a cocktail that took the bar staff 2min to make and a standard drink is ridiculous.
Slightly off-topic, but last year I went into the tourist information office in Marseille and found the guy behind the counter was an American who'd settled in France. After getting directions etc I said, "And is it like the US here as regards to - " and before I could finish the question he said "Tips? No. The staff are paid well enough without them."
Apparently the French system works perfectly without gratuities. And given how happy French waiters look, maybe we should adopt the same system here...
I spend a couple of months a year in the US and although I don't like it I tend to follow their tipping culture in a "when in Rome" type of way. When calculating the tip though I deduct the cost of the wine if I've had a bottle. No way am I tipping on something that's already been marked up by 300-400%.
This is my attitude - I too think it's crazy (and they tip anything and everything that moves there) but when a guest in their country, I follow the cultural norms.
Having been many times, I have to say that this notion of American service being peerless is an utter fallacy. I've had great service there, I've had terrible service there. Ate in a very upmarket and trendy eatery in NYC last year (so noisy conversation was almost impossible) where the waiter became VERY rude purely because I didn't want to decide on my desert at the very start. Remained very brusque throughout (though with the plastic smile, of course) and questioned my reasons when I only tipped 10%. I told him in no uncertain terms. We felt like we were condemned men on the way to the electric chair as we walked out.
In another ridiculously expensive San Francisco place (celebrity chef, too), half the menu was off. Wine only sold in glasses (quite common) at crazy prices. You could bring your own - corkage $25 per bottle.
In Belfast a pint in a downtown pub would be £3.80 which I think is much to expensive , so I never ever give a tip.
I have seen restaurants with this 12.5% optional charge I refuse to pay it and have completely refused to go back to that place again.
If I go get really exceptional service I would tip a few quid but would always enquire as what the tips policy, one cafe called The Street all tips went into the owners pocket so I wouldn't go back there,If I was sure the it went into the waiters pocket no problem other than that its a no no
Well what about all the staff who get minimum wage but aren't tipped? Why should we tip some people to make up their money but not others? I agree with tipping as a thank you and a gesture, but not to increase someones wages to a living standard.
This is my attitude - I too think it's crazy (and they tip anything and everything that moves there) but when a guest in their country, I follow the cultural norms.
Having been many times, I have to say that this notion of American service being peerless is an utter fallacy. I've had great service there, I've had terrible service there. Ate in a very upmarket and trendy eatery in NYC last year (so noisy conversation was almost impossible) where the waiter became VERY rude purely because I didn't want to decide on my desert at the very start. Remained very brusque throughout (though with the plastic smile, of course) and questioned my reasons when I only tipped 10%. I told him in no uncertain terms. We felt like we were condemned men on the way to the electric chair as we walked out.
.
It is regrettable that this happened to you, and I would not dream of disputing that it did.
I am 55 now, the first time I went Stateside was when I was 18.
I've been going once or twice per year since then, New York, Boston, Buffalo, Providence, Chicago, Minneapolis, Seattle, San Francisco, L.A., Tampa, Miami, Dallas, Albuquerque, Memphis, and Denver, etc. etc.
I have had nothing but impeccable service everywhere, in restaurants, bars, and diners, and I've always tipped the going rate, 10-12%years ago, around 18% or more now.
I remember a guide line that a New Yorker told me in the 80s, presumably for New York only, he said that when you get the check, look at the State Tax, then double that for the tip.
The one and only time that there was almost a crack in the service smile, was on the way to JFK one time.
Knowing the outrageous prices in airport dining establishments, world-wide, not just New York, we had stopped at a diner in Queens for lunch.
I ordered a turkey salad, the waiter came out with a platter of sliced turkey that would have fed an army.
Thinking that this was someone else's order, I called him back, he said, "Take it easy ma'am, the salad is on its way."
I ate once in one of the restaurants in Victoria Square in Belfast and when I went to pay by card the waiter handed me the card machine ready loaded on the "Please enter your tip amount" screen. Before I had even fully looked at it and read what it said he asked me if I would like to leave a tip. I quickly said no and carried on putting my pin in. He didn't look too impressed but I don't care. I hate this tipping culture that we have. Do your job and earn your wage like everyone else. You shouldn't be given extra just because you did it well, which incidentally is the way you are supposed to do it in the first place! If the money isn't good, get another job or ask for a raise.
Just to clarify, I have tipped before but when exceptional out of their way customer service was given. I just don't see why it should be given to any service staff who are just doing what they are supposed to in the first place.
I always check the bill, and if service is automatically added,it comes straight off. I return the bill and pay it once corrected. Then I leave a tip, in cash, specifically for who I want tipping.
That's the way I do it.
A tip is not compulsory whether added on or not. I would scrub out the s/c on bill (not all monies goes to workers) and leave cash and tell the waiter it is for them, whether it goes in 'communal pot' or not.
If you go for a night out at a bar (like going to a pub here) do you hand over $2 a drink at time of ordering that drink or at the end of the evening? Only that's a pile of $1 bills you are going to have to take around with you to stick in the bartender's hand every time you get another drink. (Easy if you just happen to order two drinks that come to $6, as you can then just give them a $10 bill, but the chances of it working out that neatly is never going to happen.)
And you are meant to work all this out when half pissed at the end of the evening?
Comments
Good point, I never even calculated the price of the drink.
Either the OP is mistaken or they were drinking somewhere extremely posh.
In which case it was only about a pound more than the U.S. equivalent.
That is completely right.
Standard in the US is a dollar for a beer or glass of wine, but $2 for a cocktail. It's 20% min on food, and last year I had a couple of higher end places actually give 3 figures at the end of the bill to chose from. 20%, 22.5% ("recommended") and 25%.
I eat out several times a week, and am so used to this now I just accept it as the norm. I do understand those who find it objectionable, however, and I'm just waiting for the 12.5% to make the jump to 15, which it will. A few years ago 10 was the expected norm.
If the service is good and no service charge is included, I will usually tip a min of 12.5%.
It wasn't per drink. We had one cocktail and something else, I can't recall exactly but was basically a shot of something and a mixer. The cocktail was a bit more than I would normally pay but it was a special night out so we picked one of the more expensive ones.
Either way, a £2.50 tip for 2 drinks in my view is way ott.
Now they seem to be leaving $2.00 per beer.
My wife and I were in the Union Square Café, E. 16th. Street NYC just before Christmas.
Cocktails were $14.00 a pop, I don't mean gin and tonics, or vodka and orange, a little more exotic than that, but not Del. Boy stuff, with umbrellas.
We had 2 each, the tab came to $56.00 plus tax.
I don't factor the tax into the tip, so I gave the bartender $9 on top of the bill, he was happy and wished us a Merry Christmas, I was happy too, a win-win.
Just because they add it to the bill doesn't mean that you have to pay it. It is still voluntary, it is just that bars and restaurants know that most people will just pay it.
http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm
Service staff usually prefer to work with a percentage of wages from tips because they earn a lot more than working from a base hourly rate. This does mean that they may have to work harder but the service is better, the wages are better, and it means employers are able to hire more staff.
So we left a tip of 50 cents (bill was about $60), so that he would get the message that we didn't forget to tip, we just left what we thought the service was worth.
I know of at least two restaurants in Edinburgh where there is a sign that says "please do not tip the staff - they are only doing their job if they deliver perfect service"
Also it's bizarre the way we tip for some things and not others, many tip in pubs where you order your food at the bar, get your own cutlery and they just bring you your food out, a 1min job! Same goes for a 10min sit in the barbers chair. Coach drivers on coach trips often get a 'whip round' yet no one does the same for a pilot who has a much harder and often longer job, the taxi driver often gets one and not the train driver, it's all a madness
So not that much more than the U.S, then? Infact last time I was in the U.S. it was customary to tip 15% on your bill, not per drink.
Yes I know, hence why in the post you quoted we told them not to add the service charge
But still more, or there about's what you pay in the US. The point is a £2.50 tip for a cocktail that took the bar staff 2min to make and a standard drink is ridiculous.
Apparently the French system works perfectly without gratuities. And given how happy French waiters look, maybe we should adopt the same system here...
This is my attitude - I too think it's crazy (and they tip anything and everything that moves there) but when a guest in their country, I follow the cultural norms.
Having been many times, I have to say that this notion of American service being peerless is an utter fallacy. I've had great service there, I've had terrible service there. Ate in a very upmarket and trendy eatery in NYC last year (so noisy conversation was almost impossible) where the waiter became VERY rude purely because I didn't want to decide on my desert at the very start. Remained very brusque throughout (though with the plastic smile, of course) and questioned my reasons when I only tipped 10%. I told him in no uncertain terms. We felt like we were condemned men on the way to the electric chair as we walked out.
In another ridiculously expensive San Francisco place (celebrity chef, too), half the menu was off. Wine only sold in glasses (quite common) at crazy prices. You could bring your own - corkage $25 per bottle.
I have seen restaurants with this 12.5% optional charge I refuse to pay it and have completely refused to go back to that place again.
If I go get really exceptional service I would tip a few quid but would always enquire as what the tips policy, one cafe called The Street all tips went into the owners pocket so I wouldn't go back there,If I was sure the it went into the waiters pocket no problem other than that its a no no
Have to agree with you on this
It is regrettable that this happened to you, and I would not dream of disputing that it did.
I am 55 now, the first time I went Stateside was when I was 18.
I've been going once or twice per year since then, New York, Boston, Buffalo, Providence, Chicago, Minneapolis, Seattle, San Francisco, L.A., Tampa, Miami, Dallas, Albuquerque, Memphis, and Denver, etc. etc.
I have had nothing but impeccable service everywhere, in restaurants, bars, and diners, and I've always tipped the going rate, 10-12%years ago, around 18% or more now.
I remember a guide line that a New Yorker told me in the 80s, presumably for New York only, he said that when you get the check, look at the State Tax, then double that for the tip.
The one and only time that there was almost a crack in the service smile, was on the way to JFK one time.
Knowing the outrageous prices in airport dining establishments, world-wide, not just New York, we had stopped at a diner in Queens for lunch.
I ordered a turkey salad, the waiter came out with a platter of sliced turkey that would have fed an army.
Thinking that this was someone else's order, I called him back, he said, "Take it easy ma'am, the salad is on its way."
Just to clarify, I have tipped before but when exceptional out of their way customer service was given. I just don't see why it should be given to any service staff who are just doing what they are supposed to in the first place.
That's the way I do it.
A tip is not compulsory whether added on or not. I would scrub out the s/c on bill (not all monies goes to workers) and leave cash and tell the waiter it is for them, whether it goes in 'communal pot' or not.
And you are meant to work all this out when half pissed at the end of the evening?