They have already been told Westminster will not stand in the way legally or by other means to prevent a referendum, howvere Alex Salmond has said he wont be having a referendum, any time soon, I wonder why ?
Because there is a Scotland Bill already going through Westminster that he wants beefed up to help Scottish business in the here and now.
The widely expected date is 2014- 700 years since the battle of Bannockburn and the year Glasgow holds the Commonwealth Games.
Aye. At least we are proud of our heritage though and at least Scots grow up knowing who the key figures in their history are.
Whether that's a sign of a strong education system, or simply a strong national identity ingrained in our children from birth who knows?
What I do know is that nationalism in Scotland reaches out to every community, white, asian, even English, nationalism in England is about expelling brown people.
We shall see. Cameron is going to oppose it with every fibre of his body, only a minority of Scots want it.
By 2015 Salmond might have had the guts to hold a referendum in Scotland. He certainly wont do it in the early days. Why would he? He is basking in glory right now. What a fool he would look if he did hold a referendum and got a big NO.
Really, was there a referendum of all the people of Scotland held to prove that?
I think most people in Scotland (unlike a lot of posters on this forum) are able to differentiate between a vote for an SNP Government and a vote for independence.
I would support independence but I am not naive enough to believe that every SNP voter on Thursday felt the same.
All that the people of Scotland have done is to vote back in a government that was thought to have done a reasonable job for the last four years.
The arguments over Independence are for the future.
Aye. At least we are proud of our heritage though and at least Scots grow up knowing who the key figures in their history are.
Whether that's a sign of a strong education system, or simply a strong national identity ingrained in our children from birth who knows?
What I do know is that nationalism in Scotland reaches out to every community, white, asian, even English, nationalism in England is about expelling brown people.
Firstly, I am Scottish. I am proud to be Scottish, and I am proud to be British. :cool:
Secondly, the generalisation you make about English nationalism is absurd to say the least.
Secondly, the generalisation you make about English nationalism is absurd to say the least.
It's not that absurd though, at least in politics. England doesn't have a professional and serious party which want's to put English matters forward in Westminster.
The BNP are the closest thing to that and they are abhorrent by pretty much everyone.
England does need a party like Plaid Cymru or the SNP, even if it only got a small showing in parliament.
I suppose people could say the Tories are that, but even they alienate a large percentage of the English population.
It's not that absurd though, at least in politics. England doesn't have a professional and serious party which want's to put English matters forward in Westminster.
The BNP are the closest thing to that and they are abhorrent by pretty much everyone.
England does need a party like Plaid Cymru or the SNP, even if it only got a small showing in parliament.
I suppose people could say the Tories are that, but even they alienate a large percentage of the English population.
Don't over simplify things then. There are probably a quite a lot of nationalists in England who would like their own parliament or independence . I wouldn't accuse them of all wanting rid of 'brown' people.
Clegg was not solely to blame. I know this is hard to accept but the Labour vote share also fell. In fact Labour polled just 26% in the list vote compared to the SNPs 44%.
If I were Alex Salmond, I think I would wait before having the referendum.
3-4 years of Tory cuts and Tory/LibDem squabbling coupled with an all-at-sea Labour party won't harm his independence case one little bit.
It will be the SNP imposing the cuts though - they have told everyone the books balance. They will also have more financial devolution via Calman and the Scotland bill. So it will be argued any cuts are their fault.
The SNP should go now - this year or next May. The longer they wait more risk they are of losing.
Plus there are 3 years of uncertainty for the UK - why waste parliamentary time and money on Calman?
Having a referendum so soon would result in a "no" vote just like it did on AV when no-one had a clue what they were really voting for.
On independence, both sides need to fully put their arguments forward. That inevitibly takes time and is perfectly sensible whatever side of the argument you're on.
Scotland is part of the large island of the west coast of the European continent called Great Britain. We are european, british and scottish.
If you like I could claim that I am british but am not British. The problem is that http://www.ukcitizenshiptest.co.uk/ would seem to indicate that I'm not British enough to qualify for UK citizenship. That's without any culturally biased questions such as which team I support.
Firstly, I am Scottish. I am proud to be Scottish, and I am proud to be British. :cool:
Secondly, the generalisation you make about English nationalism is absurd to say the least.
Your right it is absurd, to an extent, but at the same time having lived in England for the past 3 years it amazes me how any attempt at national pride in England quickly gets highjacked by loony brigade. But then so is calling Scotland parochial.
The problem unionsist supporters have is your arguments are all negative. "we cannae de that" and the worst one "were just an impovrished backwater". It may seem that way if your sole experience of Scotland was centred around Glasgow. The reality is quite different. Get out of Glasgow and Scotland has a bouyant economy.
Its no longer just the loony fringes of the shortbread tin brigade that are asking fundamental questions about Scotland's position in the union, its leaders of big business too.
The debate ahead is not just about independance its about what has the Union done for Scotland and would we be better off going it alone?
If the unionists cannot begin to come up with arguments that are better than "look at Ireland", which the SNP can easily counter with "were more like Norway and look at Norway..." then I'm not altogether certain their referendum will fail.
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Because there is a Scotland Bill already going through Westminster that he wants beefed up to help Scottish business in the here and now.
The widely expected date is 2014- 700 years since the battle of Bannockburn and the year Glasgow holds the Commonwealth Games.
Talk about parochialism . . . :rolleyes:
Astonishing isn't it
Aye. At least we are proud of our heritage though and at least Scots grow up knowing who the key figures in their history are.
Whether that's a sign of a strong education system, or simply a strong national identity ingrained in our children from birth who knows?
What I do know is that nationalism in Scotland reaches out to every community, white, asian, even English, nationalism in England is about expelling brown people.
Really, was there a referendum of all the people of Scotland held to prove that?
I would support independence but I am not naive enough to believe that every SNP voter on Thursday felt the same.
All that the people of Scotland have done is to vote back in a government that was thought to have done a reasonable job for the last four years.
The arguments over Independence are for the future.
Firstly, I am Scottish. I am proud to be Scottish, and I am proud to be British. :cool:
Secondly, the generalisation you make about English nationalism is absurd to say the least.
It's not that absurd though, at least in politics. England doesn't have a professional and serious party which want's to put English matters forward in Westminster.
The BNP are the closest thing to that and they are abhorrent by pretty much everyone.
England does need a party like Plaid Cymru or the SNP, even if it only got a small showing in parliament.
I suppose people could say the Tories are that, but even they alienate a large percentage of the English population.
It depends on your definition of nationalism.
Just like Scottish nationalism is about hating and expelling the English :rolleyes:
Desperation. :rolleyes:
oh for goodness sake.
No it is not but that argument is very much a desperate claim from the unionist parties. :rolleyes:
And why wouldn't they dare?
Labour also lost Clydesdale and Hamilton/Larkhall/Stonehouse (trad. old mining communities) which have been staunch Labour since the dawn of time.
Clegg was not solely to blame. I know this is hard to accept but the Labour vote share also fell. In fact Labour polled just 26% in the list vote compared to the SNPs 44%.
Brave words from the welsh. Now where would Wales be if it weren't for the UK?
It will be the SNP imposing the cuts though - they have told everyone the books balance. They will also have more financial devolution via Calman and the Scotland bill. So it will be argued any cuts are their fault.
The SNP should go now - this year or next May. The longer they wait more risk they are of losing.
Plus there are 3 years of uncertainty for the UK - why waste parliamentary time and money on Calman?
On independence, both sides need to fully put their arguments forward. That inevitibly takes time and is perfectly sensible whatever side of the argument you're on.
Scotland is part of the large island of the west coast of the European continent called Great Britain. We are european, british and scottish.
If you like I could claim that I am british but am not British. The problem is that http://www.ukcitizenshiptest.co.uk/ would seem to indicate that I'm not British enough to qualify for UK citizenship. That's without any culturally biased questions such as which team I support.
Your right it is absurd, to an extent, but at the same time having lived in England for the past 3 years it amazes me how any attempt at national pride in England quickly gets highjacked by loony brigade. But then so is calling Scotland parochial.
The problem unionsist supporters have is your arguments are all negative. "we cannae de that" and the worst one "were just an impovrished backwater". It may seem that way if your sole experience of Scotland was centred around Glasgow. The reality is quite different. Get out of Glasgow and Scotland has a bouyant economy.
Its no longer just the loony fringes of the shortbread tin brigade that are asking fundamental questions about Scotland's position in the union, its leaders of big business too.
The debate ahead is not just about independance its about what has the Union done for Scotland and would we be better off going it alone?
If the unionists cannot begin to come up with arguments that are better than "look at Ireland", which the SNP can easily counter with "were more like Norway and look at Norway..." then I'm not altogether certain their referendum will fail.